a

[pies]

a

[Kassaa]

Lie your way through it, and don't look so faggish as you do on your pictures! Managers don't like that.

[thalberg]

Lie your way through it, and don't look so faggish as you do on your pictures! Managers don't like that.

ROFL!!!

Okay, pies, you asked for advice.  My advice is this:  Use a "key message" interview strategy.  This means you think of three things you think your employer wants--for example, someone who is reliable, friendly, and smart.  And then no matter what question they ask you, you relate it to one of those three things.  When you leave, he should have those three things in his mind.  You have gotten across your 'key message.'

And as Kassaa said, don't look faggish.

[pies]

a

[dnephi]

Wow, your humility is stunning. 

Seriously?  I'd recommend being yourself, being relaxed, and being confident.  If you're underqualified--- why go for it?  If you can't do the job, don't get the job.

[pies]

a

[Essyne]

Dedication dedication dedication - if you "don't know" something, then you "will look it up," etc. No kissing butt, but just let them know that you're going to be an incredible asset to their corporation/whatever. Drive and dedication matters about as much as qualification.

[thalberg]

Wear a white shirt.  It makes people respond positively to you and gives them the impression of mental stability.

And I recommend that you think of your own three things to get across, unless you just love my ideas.

[shortyshort]

Wear a white shirt.  It makes people respond positively to you and gives them the impression of mental stability.

Like the bloke in "Falling Down"?

[thalberg]

Yes

[thalbergmad]

Get a haircut and put on some make up to cover your zits.

Avoid mentioning Xenakis during the interview and try not to be yourself.

Hope this helps.

Do not let on that you think you are over qualified.

Thal

PS Good luck

[indutrial]

Wear a white shirt.  It makes people respond positively to you and gives them the impression of mental stability.

And I recommend that you think of your own three things to get across, unless you just love my ideas.

If it's not a music-related job, don't tell them you're a musician. Pretend that you were spending the past few years networking and career-building, which is what most managers and non-artist employees use as their euphemism for smoking pot, drinking, and watching Sportscenter.

For the most part, "musician" still equals "heavy drug-user" and "potential child molestor" to the average dumbshit office fodder out there.

[indutrial]

Avoid mentioning Xenakis during the interview and try not to be yourself.

If you say 'Xenakis', they'll probably just ask if you need a tissue.

[Essyne]

For the most part, "musician" still equals "heavy drug-user" and "potential child molestor" to the average dumbshit office fodder out there.

"Freelance."  .

How'd it go? Unless, of course, it's this evening. . . .

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

The interviewer seemed to suggest that I was the best candidate of all the applicants. 

What was the other one like?

Thal

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Sounds like you got yourself a job old chap. Welcome to the world of the workers.

Thal

[Bob]

I always heard music was a good thing on a resume.  It shows you work hard and are dedicated. 

[indutrial]

I always heard music was a good thing on a resume.  It shows you work hard and are dedicated. 

Depends entirely on the line of work and how strong/weak everything else on the resume is. I've encountered way too many blank stares whenever I've tried to big up my role as a music teacher, etc.. What sucks is that being a music teacher might be one of the only jobs I've ever invested real mental energy into, but the interviewers always seem to ask a million questions about pretty much everything (anything) else...with inquiries like "so, could you tell me some more about what your responsibilities were when you worked as a data entry clerk for that fabric company between June and August of '01?" or "so, you majored in history...do you have plans on becoming a history teacher?", effectively questions that I don't usually ponder or things that can't possibly have a truthful answer. I may just have the worst luck in landing decent work environments, but the music thing does me no benefit whatsoever and just ends up alienating me from co-workers and potential bosses. Right now, I'm working in a department full of sociologists and political scientists and their views of music frame me as nothing more than a above-the-average-dedication hobbyist. Even some of my adult students don't seem to take me 100% seriously because they all work 80 hours a week doing sales and accounting at X or Y Co. in the area while I work in a radius 5 miles from home.

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Time for a drug test!

You or your employer?

Thal

[indutrial]

Got the job offer like 15 minutes ago!    Time for a drug test!

Did they order the drug test before or after they knew you were a musician? Or was it after you told them that you liked Xenakis or Bussotti? "He's a good candidate, but he's speaking gibberish. Make sure he takes a piss test, he might be on meth."

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Good luck old boy.

Thal

[Essyne]

Okay, so my parents informed me yesterday that I must go out and get a job as well. There are only 2 music stores locally (ie in the 45 minute vicinity. . . ) and, as they are very small, they are in no need of any additional employees. Do you guys have any ideas of places that would be halfway painless to work at? I really really really don't want to go the Micky D's route, and have some work experience (I've managed a boarding stable for some 3 years). Unfortunately, I think it's going to come down to some chain retail store (like Academy. . . ) but I have NO idea where to start looking.

Thanks in advance.

~Essy~

[timothy42b]

Essy,

Can you sign up with manpower, kellygirls, or one of the similar temp agencies? 

You get a variety of work when you're called, you don't get called every day so you keep your parents happy without having to work full time, and when you find a job you really fit into well sometimes you can make it permanent. 

I worked for one of those when I was between jobs a few years back and it was okay. 

[indutrial]

I really really really don't want to go the Micky D's route, and have some work experience (I've managed a boarding stable for some 3 years).

Yeah, definitely don't do fast-food/service industry stuff. I worked at McD's all through high school and, as easy as it was, the co-workers were very "enlightening" to interact with. If anything, it will test your tolerance as a fellow human being and make you god-awfully thankful that you're educated and musical. Temp jobs are way better, but be prepared to do a lot of busywork and filing.

[general disarray]

Essy,

Have you tried the old networking routine?  Email virtually everyone you know and tell them you're looking for a job and you'd love to avoid the fast-food hamster wheel. 

You'd be surprised how many not-too-disgusting jobs are out there and never advertised or posted anywhere.  I found a great one that way tutoring rich kids on their family's yacht.  Been in the Bahamas and now I'm in Hanalei Bay, Kaua'i.  Not a bad gig until I get motivated to continue schooling.  Beats flipping burgers.

[pies]

a

[shortyshort]

Don't we all?? ??

[Essyne]

Fantastic. Thanks, guys. I'm looking around for some temp stuff . . . there are some law firms around here that (sometimes) hire high school seniors to do their filing, an activity that's 100% more preferable than making greasy food chock-full of MSG. I'm going to try the (two) music stores in the area (just to see. . . as I already know that their staff is, erm, not that Ideal to begin with - surprisingly, at the ripe ol' age of 17, I have more Musicality and Experience than the vast majority of them) because I don't think there's any harm in asking. May try for a bus position in this really nice Swiss restaurant that I know of if it comes down to it. . . .

Haha, on another, more random note - I went into some Mexican restaurants yesterday and they just looked at me like I was insane for even asking. The manager at one of them (some short Hispanic guy) looked me up and down (yeah. . . giving me "that" look - the whole "Who are you to ask when you're NOT of Hispanic descent?" thing) and told me that they weren't hiring, even though I KNOW that they are. I just looked at him, smiled and then started telling him in (much better Spanish than his  - oh the irony . . . yeah, I'm a bit full of my self  ) Spanish how terrible it was that he must make judgements based on people's appearances and that it was quite regrettable. He just stood there with this shocked look on his face that I could utter a single syllable in Spanish and all of his waitstaff just looked at me, smiling. Apparently this sort of blatant discrimination runs rampant around here (Silly me, I thought such racial profiling only existed in high school  ).


On a lighter note, your advice is greatly appreciated.  .

[timothy42b]

I just looked at him, smiled and then started telling him in (much better Spanish than his  - oh the irony . . . yeah, I'm a bit full of my self  ) Spanish how terrible it was that he must make judgements based on people's appearances and that it was quite regrettable.

Good response, but.................trouble is now you've burned a bridge.

Alternate suggestion:  you could have told him you wanted the job so bad you'd be willing to learn Spanish, then came back in two weeks and really impressed him.  You'd probably be the supervisor by now. 

[rc]

eh, some bridges are falling down from the start.  Standing her ground was the best way to go IMO, people shouldn't make the habit of cowing to anothers position.  Besides, I think in this case it was the employer who failed the interview.

[Essyne]

eh, some bridges are falling down from the start. 

Or they just never existed in the first place  .

Alternate suggestion: you could have told him you wanted the job so bad you'd be willing to learn Spanish, then came back in two weeks and really impressed him. You'd probably be the supervisor by now.

Had I seen any glimmer of hope in the situation (and had it been any OTHER situation), I would probably have done this, however, when someone is being a flagrant racist, he's not worth my time and energy. First, I am the top Spanish student in my school, and sucking up for a minimum wage job when I have 4 or 5 others lined up (it's just up to me picking one) is not worth it.

But I completely understand what you're saying, Tim, and your advice is 100% appreciated - *normally* I'm completely diplomatic  .

[Bob]

You could teach lessons.  That improves your own playing too.

[pies]

a

[Bob]

You can shave with a razor the night before.  Then you can sleep later the next morning.

[indutrial]

Or they just never existed in the first place  .

If you're of a more-or-less average American background, I would strongly suggest avoiding going to work in any number of ethno-centric work environments where you don't quite match. I worked at an Italian Restaurant with a bunch of off-the-boat Italian dudes and I could not stand it. There was way too much sarcastic banter and all they ever talked about were trashy Italian girls and soccer. I was also the token gringo at a Hispanic taxi company for a while and that would get stressful from time to time when the clientele would expecting somebody 110% fluent in Spanish. I could not even imagine working in a place like a Chinese restaurant or an Indian supermarket. I'm not trying to sound bigoted here...it's plainly obvious that most of America's ethnic population outside of college environments like to stick with their own.

You also have to understand that, for the most part, a person of high-school or college age is not usually considered on bases of talent or skill. An employer is more likely to be sizing a person up in terms of "how many hours can you work", "will you work weekends", "will you work nights", "how far can I wrap this kid around my finger", and most importantly "how little can I get away with paying this kid." The fact that you're an awesome Spanish student means little in comparison to those factors. Any employer looking for help under the age of 25 is looking for the closest thing to a slave, so your best chance is to basically tell them you're willing to do anything. Even temp agencies who are set up to basically f**k over out-of-work adults and recent college graduates usually measure you on bases of how much office-space punishment you can endure (be it measured in things like Keystrokes-per-hour, vague notions of multi-tasking, and overtime availability).