So... what do you think about this?

[db05]

I need help/ ideas about a life problem/ non-problem. So here's what happened:

I've been reading self-help and inspirational books one after the other lately because I wanted to improve my life. I was a mess in the sense that I wasn't doing as well as I hoped to, but overall I was fine. This last book I read, a self-help book just backfired after 3 chapters. Its premise is that you want something so you change your thinking so you can do something to get what you want. Usually this is along the lines of wealth, health, success. If you want something really badly, you'll do the required work.

Here's the thing. I DO NOT WANT ANY OF THOSE THINGS. I enjoy some money, some health, and some successes along the way, but I do not WANT something, like REALLY REALLY want something. I simply want a fair share, because I wouldn't be able to survive in society without a certain amount. Who doesn't? And then I realized, I'm just doing things that people expect me to do. I've been doing that all my life, and whatever I had wanted for myself only slipped out of the picture. So it's not that I don't want anything, it's that I don't know what I want.

It's sad, but it's ridiculous in the sense that it didn't hurt that I didn't know and no one would notice if I don't pursue that which I want. Teacher was right about media, society and all the programming that goes with it, but isn't school a kind of programming too? And religion and books and tv and music and art? The big question is, how would you know where the social constructs end and the real self begins? 

Now I can't do the things I usually do because I don't know if it's for the right reasons, and if my feelings are real. I'm beginning to think, this is ridiculous, nobody thinks like this. And I sort of wish that I were so shallow that I want money, and a small amount is all it takes to make me happy.

[concerto_love]

I see....

[db05]

I see....

You see what, love?

See, it's bothering me lately so much that I can't practice my music or study. It's not that I want to be no longer a part of society. But I want to keep things separate - these are the things I want for me, and then these are the things other people expect of me. Do I play piano for myself, or because I felt I had to? My uncle died leaving behind a lot of piano books and no one else has the time to study them. On the other hand, to major in piano instead of guitar (my first instrument) was entirely my decision. Or was it?

To illustrate my point further, another example. I've been making lists of pieces that I want to be able to play, for myself. 100 for piano, 50 guitar. Unconsciously, I wrote down the pieces required for guitar exams, and some popular tunes that I don't personally like, e.g. Magic Flute Variations. My piano list was a mess, still is. I found I wrote down Inventions, Sinfonias and WTC, but I don't even like Bach that much. Of course, if I took out all the unwanted pieces, the lists would be half empty/ full. But the point was to find out what I do like so I can study them as soon as I reach those levels, instead of waiting to finish all the required work before anything.

[pianistimo]

ok.  what you need is an aptitude test.  then, you take the results and 'go for it.'  you'll know for sure you are talented and qualified in this area.  do i take my own advice?  no.  i've been floudering like you for 40 years.  flitting from this to that.  but, you know - i sort of found out that i gravitate to what i like and am good at.  i've always like piano, too, and it really helps my mental outlook.  piano is like doing your own therapy.  also, creative things like art and sewing - but they don't pay as much as the technical jobs (which i found incredibly boring, myself). 

ok.  once you have the necessities - what more do you need.  who cares if nobody but you is happy?  well, if you have a family that might be more difficult - but right now, do what you like and just be happy.  don't worry about the half empty side of the cup - just go for the half-full. 

here's a free aptitude test site:  https://www.careerexplorer.net/aptitude.asp  it never hurts to supplement music/piano with a second or third option.  some musicians do it all in the music field (teach music, play music, eat music) - some have a 'day job' that is a completely different subject.

[db05]

ok.  what you need is an aptitude test.  then, you take the results and 'go for it.'  you'll know for sure you are talented and qualified in this area.  do i take my own advice?  no.  i've been floudering like you for 40 years.  flitting from this to that.  but, you know - i sort of found out that i gravitate to what i like and am good at.  i've always like piano, too, and it really helps my mental outlook.  piano is like doing your own therapy.  also, creative things like art and sewing - but they don't pay as much as the technical jobs (which i found incredibly boring, myself). 

I did take a test, when I left college. The results showed that I loved music, but my talent was in math, and linguistic was right in the middle - I liked it but didn't love it, I was good but not great. That confused me even more because I just started music lessons as therapy. But a career? I don't know.

[db05]

ok.  once you have the necessities - what more do you need.  who cares if nobody but you is happy?  well, if you have a family that might be more difficult - but right now, do what you like and just be happy.  don't worry about the half empty side of the cup - just go for the half-full. 

And I think you misunderstood me. This is not a career question, but an overall one. Besides, a career is another social construct. I'll definitely keep a day job, but what I do for myself may not even be a job.

[thalbergmad]

I've been reading self-help and inspirational books one after the other lately because I wanted to improve my life.

The only things those type of books improve is the profits of the publishers and i have to say i don't think it is really a good idea to read one after the other. It is better to talk to people than it is to refer to books.

A lot of people float through life very happily with no real aim or goal and striving to find some purpose in a book is a recipe for disaster.

Thal

[ahinton]

The only things those type of books improve is the profits of the publishers and i have to say i don't think it is really a good idea to read one after the other. It is better to talk to people than it is to refer to books.

A lot of people float through life very happily with no real aim or goal and striving to find some purpose in a book is a recipe for disaster.

It is well nigh impossible to disagree with any of this wise advice, so anyone in need of it has but one thing to do - take it! "Self-improvement" does indeed usually mean no more and no less than the "improvement" of the bank balance of the "self" responsible for writing (or having had ghost-written) the content...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I must admit that when i went through a difficult time in my life, i bought several of these type of books, most of which bored me or confused me and ended up in the bin.

The only one that ever had any effect on me at all was "Creative Visualisation" by Shakti Gawain. It appears to have turned into a modern classic and you could find a copy in any reasonably sized book shop.

I am 43 years old and i am still none the wiser what my purpose is on this planet and 10 years ago this really bothered me. Now, i have learned to accept my mediocrity and be happy with it.

If i do have a purpose in life, it is to find all of the Steibelt piano concerto's, the first of which is proving to be rather problematic.

Thal

[pianistimo]

steibelt?  well, as it so happens i just wrote indiana university (variations scores/prototypes) and asked them nicely to put it up on their site.  we'll see what comes of it.  it's like asking for money from the state controller's office for unclaimed property.  that can take years.  guess that places all over are hurting for money.  to get any action nowdays - you just have to fork out money.  maybe you can find this, though, at a flea market?

ps just as i thought.  i get a message back linking me to a page with a restricted amount of piano scores and no steibelt.  why don't people read messages anymore? is asking for steibelt from indiana university an insult?  ok. steibelt was no mozart - but he did create a work (romeo and juliette) that berlioz? complimented him on.

i say - play whatever you play with feeling and that pretty much covers up any inadequacies of the composer.  unless he was really rotten.  like...busoni.  well, and even then - mr. busoni arranged the bach preludes pretty well.  i think busoni was a good arranger and a terrible composer.

[kard]

I love reading threads like this because the question echoes you know?
There are a lot of thoughts packed in here.
--
Here's the thing. I DO NOT WANT ANY OF THOSE THINGS.
I don't know what I want.

Therefore, here is where the journey to find out/remember what you want starts.


Teacher was right about media, society and all the programming that goes with it, but isn't school a kind of programming too? And religion and books and tv and music and art?


You are definitely correct. Society's pull is practically inescapable. It is strong and it shapes us.

The big question is, how would you know where the social constructs end and the real self begins? 


:-/ You don't...or at least...I haven't found that line yet.  All you need to do is start to open your eyes to your realities. Think about your day, you know? Go through your day with a more observant eye, don't just follow a routine. Think about your motives. 


 And I sort of wish that I were so shallow that I want money, and a small amount is all it takes to make me happy.


Just start looking inward. You're well on your way to finding your answers.
--
I hope that made sense Good luck.

[pianistimo]

i'm of a different opinion sort of .  i mean - i think one should be true to oneself - but there is a huge amount of knowledge to be gained by those that went before us.  if one ignores it and creates a totally new 'reality' - you are starting from square one.  realities will then take longer because each one has to be confirmed.  just my opinion.

for instance, when you read a self-help book directed to a certain situation or even gender - you have some advices as to how others might handle the situation.  therefore, it gives you more choices.  if go for counseling - that might help, too because it sorts out your own verbal words and intentions. 

i found reading books on topics i was interested in very helpful to a point.  then, after that point - you can take it or leave it - in terms of the stuff you don't like.  for instance, i'm not going to check the astrology section of the newspaper to determine what to do next.  although, i'm really stupid when it comes to eating fortune cookies and wondering how they 'knew' that particular thing.  whenever they come around to my house (chinese food) every person seems to get that cookie that is most appropriate to them.  how can this happen?  maybe we prayed over the food and the fortune cookies accidentally got blessed? just kidding.

[m]

piano is like doing your own therapy.  also, creative things like art and sewing...

Yeah, those seem like pretty spiritual activities... 

[pianistimo]

creative.  but, anything can be turned to be creative.  architecture. interior design, etc.  i really wanted to be an interior designer, too - but i had too many conflicting feelings and chose music.  now i wish i had a double major. i took one class in interior design and really liked it. i could have had it AND my music.  it would have paid more.  now, i sew stuff for interiors and also clothing.  i like the creative process of creating a pattern or changing/modifying.  typically people who ask for clothing are hard to fit or wanting bridesmaid dresses (all different sizes).  i feel i am good at fittings - which not everyone is.  i don't think it's spiritual if i have to rip a seam - but if everything goes well - i feel happy.

[db05]

I just realized: maybe it's not that I don't want those things, but I don't know what I want. And maybe you realize that something is important to you only when you've lost it. God forbid.

The only things those type of books improve is the profits of the publishers and i have to say i don't think it is really a good idea to read one after the other. It is better to talk to people than it is to refer to books.

A lot of people float through life very happily with no real aim or goal and striving to find some purpose in a book is a recipe for disaster.

...
I am 43 years old and i am still none the wiser what my purpose is on this planet and 10 years ago this really bothered me. Now, i have learned to accept my mediocrity and be happy with it.

If i do have a purpose in life, it is to find all of the Steibelt piano concerto's, the first of which is proving to be rather problematic.

Now that's scary. You, thalbergmad, someone I look up to, accept mediocrity? 

I wonder if I am asking the impossible, in separating myself from society. And if looking inward is not yet my problem. Maybe if I settle things on the outside, make a living and all, that's the time when I get a life? But then I'm back to square one- trying to improve my standard of living. But all these sources say you must dig deeper, like BE -> DO -> HAVE. I get stuck on the BE part.

I don't like to talk to real live people about this, because they affect me more than I'd want them to. At least I can read a book, apply one part I like, and forget everything else. Counselors, in particular, know all about what is normal and expect you to act that way. What if you can't, or it's difficult? Take this pill... 

Well then, I shall complete my piano list and start learning what I can. I don't know if I want to play the piano doesn't mean I DON'T want to play the piano.

[m19834]

I just realized: maybe it's not that I don't want those things, but I don't know what I want.

Well, to some respect it absolutely doesn't matter in the least what we want or not, to some respect we just get what we get.    Addressing life like all we have to do is figure out what we want is like trying to solve a math problem and wanting the answer to be '4' no matter what the equation may be.  I think that life ends up "pointing" us in particular directions and sometimes it disguises itself as something we feel an impulse toward, and our own perception is that we want it, but that's just life outsmarting us  .  Sometimes it disguises itself as something we feel repulsion from, and our perception of that is that we don't want it, yet we have to swallow it anyway.  And, of course, there are plenty of times that we want something and don't get it, too !  We may spend loads of time and energy wanting something in particular and either we get it or we don't, and then years later it's the last thing on earth that we want and we either get rid of it, or we never got it and we then thank our lucky stars that we didn't get it !  So, figuring out what we "want," while not an altogether unworthy endeavor, is simply not all there is to the equation.  Period.

All of that being said, coming to terms with what lay in the heart is worthwhile, and in some sense what is within the heart has always been there and will always be there (we are not "placing" it there with our intellect), in this sense it is simply revealed to us and we are more or less discovering it rather than creating it, and it won't be expressed in one, single way.  Interestingly, though there may be infinite ways to express what lay in the heart, that expression is not complete without the particular/individual aspects of it.  So, there is something beneficial to figuring out whatever the next, specific step may be, acting on it and committing oneself to the endeavor for the duration of its purpose in one's life.

Knowing/figuring out what lay in the heart is not as difficult as acting on it and committing to it, and we know this so sometimes we can't even see what's in the heart !  It's like not being able to see the trees through the forest.  There may be something in particular that we are being pointed to, but it may seem really difficult to carry out, so it starts to become a blind question of what we "want."  What we really want to know is if living out our heart is worth everything it may include.  That's a much different question !  Unfortunately (or perhaps it is rather fortunate !), we don't actually know these answers until we start and continue to live it.

[db05]

Knowing/figuring out what lay in the heart is not as difficult as acting on it and committing to it, and we know this so sometimes we can't even see what's in the heart !  It's like not being able to see the trees through the forest.  There may be something in particular that we are being pointed to, but it may seem really difficult to carry out, so it starts to become a blind question of what we "want."  What we really want to know is if living out our heart is worth everything it may include.  That's a much different question !  Unfortunately (or perhaps it is rather fortunate !), we don't actually know these answers until we start and continue to live it.

Interesting that you mentioned the heart. But I disagree, it's very hard to see what's in the heart, and all you know is confusion. To know the heart is the hard part, after which, living it out is a piece of cake. Because you have knowledge, the mind is clear, and things can be done. But maybe that's just me. I simply cannot do anything without a clear head knowing what I want. I could try, but not for long.

[m19834]

Well then, I guess you've got it all figured out and don't need to have the thread .  Good luck  !!  In any respect, I never said discerning what is in the heart is easy .

[db05]

Well then, I guess you've got it all figured out and don't need to have the thread .  Good luck  !!  In any respect, I never said discerning what is in the heart is easy .

 

What do I know?... I don't know.

Now this is getting silly. I am missing practice sessions because of this, and I returned the book to my teacher and now I regret it. I have to start my life over again. My pieces are in pieces, and I just found out that there's a recital next month. 

[thalbergmad]

Now that's scary. You, thalbergmad, someone I look up to, accept mediocrity? 

Yes, but i did not when i was young.

Now, i have not got the bloody energy.

Thal

[db05]

Yes, but i did not when i was young.

Now, i have not got the bloody energy.

Thal

Awww, that's too bad. Isn't there something you'd want to do if you had the energy?

[cmg]

You're only 19, so please give yourself a break.  You say you don't know what you want?  But of course you know what you want!  You're letting what "society" says you "should' have get in the way.  Maybe what you really want conflicts with family and cultural norms, i.e. "society."  This must be your sticking point.  No one doesn't really and truly doubt what they want in their heart.  But it takes courage to admit that to yourself.  When you lack courage, you become lost and confused.  Your first step is to be fearless.         

You'd benefit from a good therapist, friend.

In lieu of that, you should re-read Karli's post to you that you too quickly disagreed with.  K makes great good sense.     

[thalbergmad]

Isn't there something you'd want to do if you had the energy?

Well, i would like another crack at a World Armwrestling Title, but i think that it is way too late.

Next month i am going to cycle round the Isle of Wight, so i am not yet completely washed up.

Thal

[lucylucy]

sorry your story is too long   
anyway  good luck

[db05]

sorry your story is too long   
anyway  good luck

Thanks
It's not really that long...

[rc]

Hmmm...  I sometimes manage to knot myself a bit with that whole 'purpose' thing too.  It's probably a good thing to think through from time to time - "am I heading in the right direction?"

Well, I didn't have much of a plan coming out of highschool, so the world assigned me one - I went to work for my dad.  Unglamourous construction job, but over time I accepted it and learned some valuable things along the way like to always do the best job I can even if I'm in a bad mood, or to avoid bad moods by enjoying the work.  End result:  I got good at the job, which gave me a lot of freedom (at work, and also financial freedom) and fulfilment by doing something useful for people.  This job that I didn't care for has given me a lot in the end.

I've also seen a lot of people who hate their work, though it's a job like any other.  But they have to do it, and the world will squeeze a result out of them, maybe just a drop, and they make a lot of noise and anger in the process.

But I don't think it's unfair, the demands of society.  It's the same society that feeds, clothes, paves roads and educates us.  Who wants to be some parasite that takes without giving back?  I wouldn't be what I am without the stage of society, I want to play too!

So, I believe we can also do a lot to steer the direction of our lives.  There are people who dream, and people who also act on those dreams...  But whatever strange, unexpected situation I may wind up in, it's important to accept it and do the best I can with it.

[db05]

But I don't think it's unfair, the demands of society.  It's the same society that feeds, clothes, paves roads and educates us.  Who wants to be some parasite that takes without giving back?  I wouldn't be what I am without the stage of society, I want to play too!

So, I believe we can also do a lot to steer the direction of our lives.  There are people who dream, and people who also act on those dreams...  But whatever strange, unexpected situation I may wind up in, it's important to accept it and do the best I can with it.

What you said was interesting. Probably the reply I was waiting for!!

I see a lot of people who hate their work, too. I would think, why are they working then?? I've always though people should be true to themselves, and not hurt themselves like that.

And then there are people who can be so much more, and do so much more but didn't/ don't grab the chance. Or maybe they don't see it. Or they just gave up on their dreams?? My mom was like that; she wanted to be a doctor but her family couldn't afford it. She finished her course and then got married and lost her chance to study medicine.

Sometimes, I'd feel sorry for her. But I didn't have her patience. I couldn't stay in one college for one year because I hated it, and I didn't even know what I wanted. My parents had expected me to get through it like they have done, but it wouldn't work for me.

If people found their purpose, and worked in it, they'd be 100x more productive than if they just took whatever jobs were available. Wouldn't that be just great? Not everyone can be as patient as mom (which is why it would've been great if she were a doctor- never mind if I won't exist), but I think anyone can be persevering if they were striving for something bigger, and something that they want.

[piano_ant]

This is a more recent phenomenon I think, mostly because in less recent times, professions were generally predetermined and life, as a whole, was pretty much generally formed when people were kids.

Nowadays, HOLY sh*t you can do or not do pretty much anything your little heart desires.

Here's the way I see it. The Pursuit of Happiness is a recent phenomenon. The typical dream is to be happy. I don't think this is the right way to put it. I think to truly be happy, you have to know misery. Thus, it should be the pursuit of 'the whole' of life. Feel EVERYTHING.

Pain, sadness, relief, excitement, joy, devastation, regret, love. Taste different things, smell different smells, indulge with the power and range of music (everyone here is especially sensitive to it). Work to fulfill the need to be complete. Use the money you make to see more places. Travel. Experience.

It is not that the farmer is happier than the CEO becuase his life is simple, but he is more complete because he knows that there is no such thing as 'rising to the top' and 'success'. There is just life. Appreciate a skyscraper equally as a flower. Both are amazing things to understand and see.

Every day, you should feel that it was different from the day before. JUST DIFFERENT. maybe better, maybe worse, maybe anything else, but different just the same. Trust me. You will be happier for it  right?

[db05]

This is a more recent phenomenon I think, mostly because in less recent times, professions were generally predetermined and life, as a whole, was pretty much generally formed when people were kids.

Nowadays, HOLY sh*t you can do or not do pretty much anything your little heart desires.

Here's the way I see it. The Pursuit of Happiness is a recent phenomenon. The typical dream is to be happy. I don't think this is the right way to put it. I think to truly be happy, you have to know misery. Thus, it should be the pursuit of 'the whole' of life. Feel EVERYTHING.
...
Every day, you should feel that it was different from the day before. JUST DIFFERENT. maybe better, maybe worse, maybe anything else, but different just the same. Trust me. You will be happier for it  right?

 Wow. To feel everything... I see your point, and I have to agree.