Impressions of Olympic Gymnastics -- art ?

[m19834]

I don't avidly follow gymnastics in general, nor do I avidly follow the Olympic games, but people I love like to watch, and I watch with them.  I have been using it as an opportunity to observe and learn about different things that I feel may apply to my life as a performing musician.  Gymnastics is fairly performance-oriented and is pretty similar in some ways to a solo performance with music, and I have been pondering different elements of what I see on TV.

An impression that I have about the gymnasitcs that I have seen in the Olympics is that it is very "skill-based" in that, it seems, the entire point of any routine is to accomplish particular skills that earn the olympian particular points.  And, depending on how perfectly the skills were executed, the routine is either successful or not. 

What I find a bit odd is that I feel like there is something missing from the endeavor.  I understand that there can be beauty in executing a particular skill quite well, but I can see on their faces the intense concentration on accomplishing the skills themselves, and that is what the entire routine becomes "about."  Each motion is merely a preparation for the next skill, and the entire concept of the routine becomes this calculation of events with starts and stops and a seemingly-missing artistic fluidity (as a generalization).  It seems there should be a stronger element of dance as the overall impression; and a stronger element of art.

I know that what makes art art is very subjective, but I can't help but feel like something is "missing" for me when I watch these routines.  I understand that my concept of what gymnastics is supposed to be may be way off, perhaps it is only and entirely skill-based, and that is practically all that matters.  I just think it could be more than that though.

I was thinking about this in relation to music, and imagining what it would be like if a pianist addressed a piece of music like a gymnastics routine, one skill here, another skill there, and the rest of it filler.  I realized that some people actually do approach playing in that way and while I realize the need to become very proficient in the skills required by a piece, I have always thought of that proficiency as serving the purpose to actually transcend the skill itself and meld into a bigger realm, perhaps what I think of as art.

I am curious though, is that what competitions are actually about ?  Judging from some of my own experiences, I would venture a form of "yes" though, I am not really positive.  In that line of thinking, do some people or rather most people become stuck in the realm of accomplishing the skills for the sake of accomplishing the skills, and only a few transcend into a bigger realm ?

These are just impressions and questions, and yes, they are musings, but they are changing the way I think about what I do with music. 

[thalbergmad]

I cannot see any connection between the two disciplines.

Pianists come in all shapes and sizes, but gymnasts in general conform to a certain body type. In addition, whilst both start at an early age, the average gymnast is probably finished at 25 years old, whereas a pianist has not even really begun at this age.

I do not watch a gymnasts routine and connect it with any artform, as to me it is mainly a display of physical ability. Whilst i understand marks are given for artistry, the difficulty of the routine would appear to be of equal if not greater importance.

I love to watch it but do not really have any form of understanding of the events.

When i was at school i do remember collapsing the vault horse.

Thal

[elspeth]

I think it's an interesting point... but artistic gymnastics is more commonly called ballet. Watch this for a case in point.

It's very impressive and rather scary - people shouldn't bend like that, it can't be healthy - but it's not art, it's techical wizardry for its own sake without an ounce of emotional content. Nothing wrong with that in it's place, but although that girl probably could dance the 'proper' choreography I should be pleasantly surprised if she could turn out an engaging performance rather than a technical one.

[m19834]

I think it's an interesting point... but artistic gymnastics is more commonly called ballet. Watch this for a case in point.

Yes, I get that and I was thinking about that.  I think I am a little confused at exactly what the point is with the gymnastics if all it is is a series of skills.  And, even though Thal disagrees, I think there is a relation to it with how some people approach music.

Back to the idea of more artistic gymnastics, there is ballet, of course, but the stuff people do on balance beams and on the uneven bars and these things ... well, yeah ... it's just weird if that is just a set of skills.  I am probably just tripping about it, but I just hadn't really ever thought of it like I am thinking of it right now. 

[Petter]

If you think about sports and art relation I find ice skating to be more mind boggeling. Not to mention wrestling...

[m19834]

I actually had a vocal coach recently compare one of my arias to figure skating.  She compared it to something that they used to do where each skater was required to do a certain set of skills, "School Skills" she called it (or something like that), like skating in a perfect circle, for example, and the judges would come out and measure them with a ruler to see how exact they are.  My coach said that judges and audition pannels would be looking at this particular aria in that way, listening for the particular set of skills (like triplets, etc), and if all of those are in place (she said they would actually go down a list), they would be able to venture onward to something like interpretation of character or whatnot.  I guess that makes sense to some degree, but it is all just striking me as quite odd at the time...

[thalbergmad]

I actually had a vocal coach recently compare one of my arias to figure skating. 

She thinks your voice sounds like metal scraping on ice?

Charming.

Thal

[m19834]

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[cherub_rocker1979]

Dear Karli,

I sincerely apologize for my immature response.  That was uncalled for.

Best wishes,
Cherub

[m19834]

.

[cmg]

Well, what is "art"?  Dictionary definitions lean towards anything that is the result of skilled application of talent that results in that which one perceives as "beautiful."

So, what is "beautiful"?  It's relative, and depends on the the eye of the beholder, doesn't it?

So, are the exertions of gymnists, swimmers or divers "art"?  It seems to depend on your point of view, doesn't it?

One thing, I think, is certain, and that is the voyeuristic experience of the Olympics results in little more than observing accomplishments that you think are beyond you and reserved for some elite form of being.  It strikes me as a waste of time -- as do all spectator sports. 

I'd rather develop my talents to their utmost, push myself to my own personal limits in that same time that I'd waste watching others achieve. 

What's the point?  Michael Phelps is just Michael Phelps.  He's not "cmg".

"cmg" has his own goals.  His own "gold medals."  He concentrates on that.  And Phelps, similarly, doesn't given a damn for "cmg's" or your achievements.  His ambitions are only for himself.  So why should I waste my time watching him achieve when, during that same time, I could be working toward reaching my own goals?

The Olympics are bollocks. 

I don't need to live my life vicariously through the triumphs of others.

[cherub_rocker1979]

My jazz improv professor used to relate the grading our improvisations to figure skating judging.  He said that there were certain 'tricks' that we were expected to demonstrate, at certain points in our improvisations--the same way that figure skaters are supposed to perform certain spins and jumps in their routines.

[healdie]

I think Gymnastics is art it is just not very arty in the olympics as it is a competition so you have to drop your trickbag for the judges but outside competition i do believe it is an art form it is just the choreography in the olympics is dull

[Petter]

My jazz improv professor used to relate the grading our improvisations to figure skating judging.  He said that there were certain 'tricks' that we were expected to demonstrate, at certain points in our improvisations--the same way that figure skaters are supposed to perform certain spins and jumps in their routines.

Blues lick in bar 11?