Some questions about Ondine

[gregh87]

I'm learning this piece, and man, is it gorgeous!  I have a couple technical questions:

1.  When it goes into 3 staves, do you use the middle pedal to sustain the base notes so you don't have to blur everything with the sostenuto pedal?  If so, do you try use the soft pedal as well for the pianissimo, like in measures 58 and 81?

2.  For very complex rhythms, such as the 7 versus 6 and 7 versus 5 in the climactic part at measure 63, how do you practice these slowly?  It makes sense to me to have a sixteenth note pulse and playing easier rhythms like 3 v 4 followed by 3 v 3 rather than 6 v 7, but I know this is not rhythmically accurate.  I'm hoping that that is a non-issue when played in tempo, but I don't want to get in a bad habit.

Thanks!

[thorn]

i dont use the middle pedal when it goes into three staves, and yes i use the soft pedal to help with the changing dynamics when its pp, but when it changes and only goes down to p i dont. to put that clearer, soft pedal to help in bars 58-60, no soft pedal in bars 61 and 62. i use it in bar 63 though because although the start of the build up is marked p, i start it at pp to make the crescendo more effective.

the 7 vs 6 part, there are tons of posts about it on here- i think i made one myself asking how to do it when i was learning it. first you need to be able to play both hands seperately and accurately with your eyes shut because you just dont have time to check in that section. then when putting, for example, the 7 vs 6 together- i did it by playing the first notes together, then the second note of the 7 then the second note of the 6 then the third note of the 7 etc so you are alternating between the two if that makes sense?

[communist]

the piece by Reinecke?

[communist]

you probably mean the movement of Gaspard De La Nuite right

[mikey6]

Debussy's?

[thorn]

look at the scores

its pretty obvious he means Ravel's

[gregh87]

Thanks for the reply, thorn.  I do mean Ravel's Ondine.  So you don't think breaking the 7 v 6 into 3v4 + 3v3 is wise?

[thorn]

well because there are so many notes and it happens so quickly and you're using pedal then technically it could work

but think about the effect Ravel is trying to create here- the sudden burst of energy that quickly fades into nothingness. someone else (either on here or on another forum or on programme notes, i forget where i read it) describes it as a wave effect: the faster note group is the growing one and the slower group is the receding one. i found it a really good analogy personally.

anyway- because you'd have the 3 vs 3 if you split it then that would destroy the effect of the polyrhythms.

[mikey6]

look at the scores

its pretty obvious he means Ravel's

And it's fairly obvious it was a joke!

[fnork]

The climax should be played accurately, rhytmically speaking - it doesn't make sense to coordinate the hands so they play the notes together, Ravel is asking for the opposite