is the practice pedal useful?

[ptyrrell]

Does anybody find the practice pedal on a piano useful?  I used to think that if I am not hearing myself play then my practice is just a waste of time.  On the other hand maybe it is good to practice fingering, but I don't use this often.
Cheers

 

[smiggy]

I prefer not to use it. I occassionally do if my parents get fed up with what I'm playing but it makes the piano sound muffled and boring.

[mad_max2024]

It is useful to play at night or when you don't want to bother your neighbours/housemates.
Since I have the rather nasty habit of practicing into the night I'm sure everyone at my house will assure you of it's usefulness.

I think that's why it's called a practice pedal, it allows you to practice without disturbing people. Not because it actually helps you in technical practice.

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes I use it against little students who fiddle with the keys when I'm talking during a lesson

[retrouvailles]

Never get a piano with a practice pedal, solely because it replaces the sostenuto pedal, which is a very valuable asset in piano playing. The use of the practice pedal is insignificant compared to the amount of benefit to be gained from the sostenuto pedal.

[franzliszt2]

My piano at home has a practice pedal. We couldn't afford anyother piano when we purchesed the piano, so we had to get that one. I have found it helpful, if I needed to learn notes late at night. I would never do any proper practice with it on, but if you are like me and leave everything to the last minute, it comes in handy for staying up all night.

You can't do technical excersises on them. If you play Hanon or anything on it, it is totally pointless becasue you can't create a even line unless you compensate by making some louder than others. The keys become really uneven on mine, so playing a legato scale becomes impossible becasue some notes just stick out really badly, or don't sound very well.

[birba]

Never get a piano with a practice pedal, solely because it replaces the sostenuto pedal, which is a very valuable asset in piano playing. The use of the practice pedal is insignificant compared to the amount of benefit to be gained from the sostenuto pedal.

I don't get it.  What is the practise pedal?  I thought it was the middle one on uprights that drops a felt cloth between the keys and the strings.  The sostenuto(?) pedal?  Do you mean the sustaining pedal on the right?  If so, I don't see the similarity between the two.  at any rate, the "practise" pedal (if it's what I think you're talking about) is useless for legitimate practising.  You can't work on tone, phrasing to any significant extent, colors or dynamics, etc.  Maybe if you want to work on mnemonic(SP?) memory without disturbing the neighbors...

[franzliszt2]

He means the middle pedal that only sustains the notes that are depressed at the time of depression of the pedal. Not the sp pedal on the right. Felt does drop in front of the strings on an upright with a practice pedal...but you can get uprights with sostenuto pedals....they cost more money though. 

[birba]

  But I don't think that's the practise pedal ptyrell was talking about.

[hyrst]

My piano has una corda, sostenuto and damper pedals.  It has a lever for lowering the practice felt.  I use the practice felt / pedal a lot.  I use it for finger workouts - it demands a greater precision and power in finger action to achieve a clear sound, so the exercises produce more benefit.  I also use it when my teenage sons are sleeping in and I want to do some note learning or basic chord or scale movements - I have to work on articulation later. I can practice a lot longer without my ears hurting, so I can listen better when I practice for performance qualities. I find I have to be very careful and selective in my use of the pedal because it can lead to heavy wrists and impreccise articulations. 

[franzliszt2]

My piano has una corda, sostenuto and damper pedals.  It has a lever for lowering the practice felt.  I use the practice felt / pedal a lot.  I use it for finger workouts - it demands a greater precision and power in finger action to achieve a clear sound, so the exercises produce more benefit.  I also use it when my teenage sons are sleeping in and I want to do some note learning or basic chord or scale movements - I have to work on articulation later. I can practice a lot longer without my ears hurting, so I can listen better when I practice for performance qualities. I find I have to be very careful and selective in my use of the pedal because it can lead to heavy wrists and impreccise articulations. 

But the weight of the keys does not change at all. So it is totally pointless to practice with more power, becasue it will just lead to a really bad tone production. It should never lead to heavy wrists either, if it leads to geavy wrists becasue you use more power you must be tense when you play louder. Excercises only benefit if you listen to them really carefully and play them with exact articulation and total relaxation

[hyrst]

I did say I had to watch for these things, tension, etc - I am aware of this tendency.  I am also aware that the practice pedal does not change key weight.  What it does is dull the intensity of sound - which means that it is possible to play as 'loud' as one is able (i.e. use greater finger power) without it being a strain on the ears.  Also, because it is dull, it sub-consciously encourages me to aim for greater accuracy so I hear a better sound.  The dull sound is important to me because I tend to experience tiniuts and if I hear too much sound intensity, it can set my ears off for a few days.  Thus, I can practice playing powerfully without suffering for it - and the practice builds the finger strength.  I know poeple can argue about if that is even necessary - but in my case it has made a huge difference. 

I am also aware that studies and exercises should aim at a good tone and articulation.  I find it is vital to balance working with the felt and working with careful tone.  If I use the felt too much than I can have a rude shock when I listen to how I actually sound.  At one stage, I practiced 2 weeks with the felt (my boys were home on holidays and I was being too careful not to drive them crazy with my practice).  When I stopped, my playing was awful for a few days.  That was a good warning to me.  I took wiht me the note learning from those days, but the articulation needed some catch-up work.  The time wasn't wasted, but it was not as efficient as it could have been.

Exercises for articulation need to be with full tone.  Exercises for finger power I have found benefit using the felt - I am looking for tension control / balance, finger height, movement precision, decreased effort for same outcome, etc.  Maybe I have needed to practice power for dexterity, efficiency, etc because of my arthritis - but I have found this work valuable.  (I am feeling and sounding old here! )

Thanks for the reminders and warnings. 

[missmusicteacher]

Never get a piano with a practice pedal, solely because it replaces the sostenuto pedal, which is a very valuable asset in piano playing. The use of the practice pedal is insignificant compared to the amount of benefit to be gained from the sostenuto pedal.

My upright has a practice pedal and it is nice for practicing in the evening when my family wants to sleep.  However, I agree with retrouvailles that the sostenuto pedal is more valuable.  I could practice more effectively with the sostenuto and as it is, I have to practice certain music only at school (but then I get to practice on a Steinway B!).  Does anyone know of an upright that maybe has the sostenuto pedal, with a lever off to the side or something separate to mute the sound like the practice pedal?

[aewanko]

My upright has a practice pedal and it is nice for practicing in the evening when my family wants to sleep.  However, I agree with retrouvailles that the sostenuto pedal is more valuable.  I could practice more effectively with the sostenuto and as it is, I have to practice certain music only at school (but then I get to practice on a Steinway B!).  Does anyone know of an upright that maybe has the sostenuto pedal, with a lever off to the side or something separate to mute the sound like the practice pedal?

If Fazioli's produce uprights then yes.

[hyrst]

  Does anyone know of an upright that maybe has the sostenuto pedal, with a lever off to the side or something separate to mute the sound like the practice pedal?

My upright has 3 pedals - sostenuto, damper, una corda - and a side lever for the practice pedal.  It is by a Korean company Alex Steinbach.  It is actually a very nice instrument - especailly when it is away from the wall so the sound can resonate properly.

[richard black]

A very few uprights have a sostenuto, including some large Yamahas and a few German models. But the ones I've tried are pretty dodgy and the sostenuto pedal affects the feel of the keys rather significantly. I'm not aware of a single piano where there is a choice between practice pedal and sostenuto, though.

[hyrst]

The sostenuto pedal on my piano does not affect the feel of the keys at all.  In fact, it is a very beautiful and fluid instrument - except I requested my tuner to make it heavy and I think this probably needs reversing.  Anyway, the sostenuto pedal is, admittedly, a little dodgy.  It works very well when it is set up exactly.  However, the right position for the mechanism so it can catch the keys is so fine that the slightest change in tension on the bar or slip of the screws and the pedal does not work.  It is a great feature to have on the piano, but my tuner has spent a lot of time adjusting it - and right now it doesn't work.  Still, I would rather have this feature on my current upright then buy a grand of around the same price.  I just wouldn't get as nice an instrument unless I doubled the price.

[mike_lang]

It makes it sound like a Rhodes...sometimes I use it for color in musical theatre rehearsals.