How to deal with accident in your studio?

[dora96]

Hi all,

We just had an accident in school music room. It happened to pre-school children choir, After rehearsal,  the teachers and the kids were having morning tea. One of our helper left hot cup of tea unattended, unfortunately, a little kid touched the cup and knocked the liquid over her chest. She got second degree burn and treated in hospital emergency department. We were so upset.

At the time, the mother of girl was all right, and  she was upset, and said that accident happened, what can we do? After few days of the accident. She becomes very bitter and angry. We are trying to comfort her and the child. The incident happens so quick, we don't even know the true fact. Because I was outside the yard, and some teachers were packing up the room. There were helpers and mothers looking after the children. The mother is besides herself and keeps on screaming at us, and seeking justice. We really don't know what to do. It has been so much stress and misunderstanding. Other people are questioning the event. Other people keep communicating in the wrong way and escalating the matter. Please help we need to know how to counsellings, and legal advice.   

[Bob]

I know what any public school would do -- Cover its rear end.

Don't admit any fault.

Don't put anything in writing.

You were outside.  Good.  You're harder to sue then because you weren't there.

Explain everything in terms that put the kid at fault.  The kid tipped the tea over onto herself.

Ouch... I'm reading the rest.  Maybe you want to get advice from a lawyer then.

Basically, hope they don't sue.

For you personally, manybe distance yourself as much as you can.  I have heard of situations were the organization gets its own lawyer and leaves all the individual people out in the cold.  The lawyer represents the organization, so it... it, haha.. so the lawyer can't represent you.  Odd, yes, but I heard one horror story.  Conflict of interest of some sort.

If it's not you, I would stay out of it completely.  Just say you don't know what happened and don't know any details.  Don't talk about it with anyone.

Any professional organization you're part of might have some type of legal services, discounts, etc.  Insurance, but you probably already have to have had it in place.

Some of the schools I've been at and have heard about are pretty sneaky about things.  They down play it.  Plead ignorance of the details.  Point blame at the child.  Everything they can do to avoid getting sued.  I've been told to shut up about things and have watched ignorant parents go without the complete, full story of what happened to their kid.  They get the details, but only what the school wants them to know.  So the school doesn't get sued.

Short strategies -- Don't put anything in writing.  Don't admit any blame.  Make things vague.  Make it as much the kid's fault as you can.

Sounds like both people are at fault from what you said.  But it's a kid -- They can't be blamed for much.  The adult should have anticipated the kid might spill the hot tea. 

Some of the schools I've been at or heard about... I wouldn't be surprised if they invited the parent in -- to buddy up to them, smooth things over -- and then to even go as far as rearranging the room so it makes it look like the kid was really out of place -- That is was unreasonable for the kid to be out of her place and that is was perfectly reasonable to leave hot tea out and not think a kid would be there and possibly tip it over.  Because when the parent comes in, you don't have to tell them that that's no quite how the room was set up at the time.  Devious, yes, but not suprising.

Sounds like the parent is ticked already though.  That's not good.

Things to emphasize -- It was the kid who knocked the tea over onto themself.  The adult didn't spill it. 

Things to avoid -- It was stupid of the adult to have tea that hot out where a kid could possibly knock it over.  I hope it's still not set up that way.

Sounds like there are several witnesses.

I would probably consult a lawyer.  Find out what's actually possible and what the schoo music place should be doing to protect itself.  That probably means not talking to the parent anymore.  If she does nothing, then you're ok.  But you never know.

It does sound a little bad on the music school's side, like it's their fault.  In that case, maybe start watching out for yourself.  If the organization get sued, what does that mean to you?  Is there any chance you can get sued too?  Yes, anyone can sue for anything, even if it doesn't make sense. 

Does your organization have insurance to cover this sort of thing?  Do you personally? 

And of course don't make any mention of seeking legal advice, to other parents and esp to this burnt kid parent.  You can create reality just by preparing for it. 

From the schools I've been at, they would try to leave the whole situation alone -- At least call the parent (nothing in writing) and explain what happened (emphasis on the kid's at fault) and that the organization did everything they could, esp afterwards.  And emphasizing how bad everyone there feels about it -- The parent might not sue if they think everyone thinks and feels just like her.  Kind of sick but I'm pretty sure that's what a public school admin would do.  And hope the parent doesn't sue or is too dumb to sue if the school is at fault.  And then fess up, but still try to hedge, if they school really is at fault.  Minimize things.  Schools keep lawyers on retainer for situations like this.  The school gets the good legal advice asap and knows what all the possibilities are and how to deal with the situation to their best advantage.

If you only work there and aren't a part owner or something, I would just try to stay out of it as much as possible.  Change the subject.  Say you don't know all the details.  Try to avoid hearing any details -- Change the subject with coworkers.  If the parents tries to talk to you, just say your were so sorry to hear about it and you really don't know anything about it since you were outside at the time. 

It's always possible to be sued though.  Sounds like the music school might really be at fault.  It's one thing if the kid was supposed to be outside and ran in, jumped up on a chair, reacher halfway across a table and tipped tea on herself.  It's another if the kids were all in the room and this kid knocked tea on herself -- That it could have been anticipated and prevented. 

Ouch though.  For the kids, but for the whole situation.  It's sounds like the music school might be at fault.  Not good at all.  Then again, if the music school did something stupid and someone got hurt... That someone shouldn't have gotten hurt.

Hopefully no one knows you post here.  You might want to delete this thread.  You've just put details of the situation in writing.  You've created some evidence here.  That could hurt the organization.  It might be a wise idea to sort out for yourself exactly where you were and exactly what you know -- What's rumor, who said what, etc.  And then don't ask or talk about it anymore so you can distance yourself from the organization if things go badly.

[lostinidlewonder]

Three words: Public liability insurance. Just to protect yourself from nasty people who think little accidents are related to negligence. I even get this insurance when I do public concerts it is usually a must. However when you deal with children, in a day care for instance, the rule and regulations here in Australia are profound. So leaving a hot drink in reach of little children who don't know any better, it really is our own fault then isn't it.

If someone plays cricket and hits a ball, it goes out of the park hits someone else in the head and kills them, the cricketer will not get charged with anything. So if she has poured a drink, left it for a small moment, and it causes an accident, is that her fault? I'm not a lawyer! The case will probably get laughed out of court unless someone can prove that the environment is full of young children who don't know better and it is the responsibility of the workers to protect them in all ways (like a daycare centre).

If this goes to court I would say that the person who left the drink on the table will be in more trouble than your entire studio. But it gets complicated, you really have to understand the "duty of care" you are responsible for within your studio. Also the suffering and expenses that this little girl has gone through would have to be investigated.

The thing is that the child has touched it, it wasn't lying like a trap for them, hidden and unknown. Little children will often get themselves into strife, does that mean we sue everyone when this happens? The hearing of "2nd degree burn" and "emergency room" is probably more distressing than the actual effect of the incident. People tend to exaggerate when it comes to their children which is understandable. But parents should teach, "don't touch what isn't yours"!

[dora96]

Hi Bob,

Thank you so much that you have responded this thread so quickly. I just very quickly read through your post. The sad thing is that everyone is running under cover. The school is Christian school, and we also use the hall for Sunday worship as well. The mother becomes bitter and angry because most people are forsaken the girl and the mother. The principal and minister of the school know this matter but they refuse to meet the mother. In fact, the principal and minister know the mother well. He helps a lot with service and music matter. She feels angry because she wants someone cares about the well beings of the child. Unfortunately, most men will use their wives or other partners to comfort the mother and child, but she is angry that why no men are willing to look at the child. In the Christian tradition, women are mostly likely the comforter and support to other women. Men are trying to fix the problem.

She expresses that she doesn't care if people are not willing to talk to her but as a Christian, you will think it doesn't matter whether men or women. She said they have heard the good Samaritan. Why when people peach the sermon, they are full of emotion and so promising the action. However, come to the reality, most people who really have the spiritual qualities, cannot put in action. She is sad and overwhelmed  by  these bustards. I can see it now, it is so damaging. More than two thousand years a ago, Jesus kept on about this, it seems that nothing has been changed. I feel really frustrated for the mother and child. I try to around up friends to comfort her but bother and sisters in Christ to help and to calm her down,  they are so busy. Like you said " they are trying to avoid this situation. I am really angry because she has no intention to take any action, but she may have second thought because the anger is burning inside her so badly.

Sometimes, incident is very simple. We all understand this is an accident, no one wants to happen, but because people are lack of care and concern. Her wish that she wants people to learn from this bad experience, and take initiative to help. This situation happen to a young child,  not an adult. I think the emotional pain is greater than the physical pain. The poor mother emailed that she has experienced (PDST). I think she has expectation about Christians, and she is also faithful Christian, but the stupid people won't take courage and even the pastor is very low key about this matter. I feel it is very tragic, and I realize that now we can't feel the suffering until you are truly experiencing it. I feel shame and fret about the whole thing. It doesn't matter women and men if a child hurts, you will be besides yourself. I am sure that it is very reasonable reaction because I am mother myself. Why can't other feel the same way. Jesus said "The good Samaritan"  it is really true. I think the mother wants to make sure her children and my children and the children of their children are nurtured, protected and love under any Christian proof.  I just pray that this woman will hold on her faith. I hope God will intervene and hope that we all can learn from this incident . How weak and helpless we are. I just hope that it won't happen to anyone   

[lostinidlewonder]

If she is a Christian herself she would let this incident go and not EXPECT a whole crowd to surround her giving sympathy. If she forgives you all there is no hard feelings. You forgive on Gods terms not human terms, so if humans are not doing what you want do you retract your forgiveness? True forgiveness is in terms of God and for God.

[dora96]

I understand what you said. I have told her the same, sometimes. we have to take the human emotional side more serious, because we are talking about the little child. She may not remember a thing when she grew up, but the mother is bearing the burden. I am sure that she will recover, she is just in the midst of the the turmoil. Sometimes, we can't fix the problem if we won't knowledge it. We should have more compassion, honestly, we are all individual some can cope with nothing, but some is more deep and difficult. I am praying for her right now. I hope God can restore order to her life and darkness of her soul. I hope if anyone here is Christian fellow, please pray for this lady 

[keypeg]

Maybe she should find another church that is less hypocritical. 

[dora96]

This lady is very strong and good in nature. I have been knowing this lady for a long time. That's why it is not fair for her and the child. I thought to myself, it's maybe time to find another church. My children and I are going to this place for 10 years, all our relationship, fellowship and friendship are bounded in this place. We don't fix the problem, there will be spiritual meltdown. we play music and sing and worship God. We are very happy until this incident happens, it changes everything.

The stupid thing is the matter is very small. Because people put their need and fear above  other. All she wants are the people to care about the little girl. The mother just wants reassurance from the members and leaders  of the church. If there is fine line between men and women's care. The men can very simply email, send card and SMS. What so difficult about it. When there is  small fire in the house, you don't just run, try to put it out as quickly as possible, make sure fire won't spread. I am sorry to bring up this in to the forum. Accident do happen in any time and any where. As musician and people are involved with public especially students relationship are extremely sensitive. I think no matter what,  the soul of the people must come first, after that we can fix the problem. Most of us are not expert or even professional dealing with other person emotional. When I practice my music, some of the really sad music. I am just wonder what the composer really expressed Rachmaninoff, Mendelssohn, Beethoven. It is really hard to study through it , except go to the composer and ask. I know it is impossible these composers have gone to God.

[keypeg]

This is such a splendid chance for the male leaders - the minister and principal - to teach those things they represent through their actions.  Unfortunately, through their inaction they are teaching the opposite.   The minister represents religious values, and if he does not uphold them at a time of crisis then he risks shaking the faith of both a mother and of a yong child.  I wonder if he realizes the gravity of that choice, if things are as you say?  No speech from the pulpit can have as much impact as an act of kindness in a time of need.  Is the child a boy?  Does the mother feel that the comforting presence of men is important for that reason?

Surely one can be compassionate without getting oneself into legal hot water.

KP

[rc]

I've heard that a similar thing happens when hospitals make mistakes (but their mistakes tend to be much more grave), is that more than anything else the victims family wants an acknowledgement of the mistake so that something can be done to try and prevent it in the future.

It's got to be the legal hot water that makes people want to sweep things under the rug.  Any sort of admission of fault leaves them without a leg to stand on should somebody decide to sue.

[communist]

well the little girl should know not to push a hot cup of tea 

[dora96]

Hi communist,

We know now. It is so easy to say and make judgment after the event. This is wake up call for me and our church. It just proves that how vulnerable and weak human are. Now I really understand the meaning why God sent His one and only son to die for us, whoever believe in Him, will have eternal life.

It also proves that we very often treat the leaders of the church like God, but treat Jesus  like just a man. ( God is dead, Elvis Presley is alive). I suppose there are people injured, broken heart and suffering in very second, and hope that someone will rescue them.

[guendola]

Very interesting and shocking! So we are protected by law(yers) and that screws up society! Well that is not exactly new but this sad story is a good example.

I am not religious but I was born in a christian society and my ethics are built on that. And many things that Jesus said are considered hard to follow only because most people are "§$% cowards for no good reason! In this case the reason is possible legal consequences. Well, if everybody covers everybody else, there must be a hell bad stuff to be concealed!

[dora96]

To be true Christian and playing classical music relatively are as hard. We have to practice what we preach, pay attention for detail and emotional involved. This poor woman is also very good at playing the piano. She gives all she has to service the church and choir and ministry of the church and her communities.

I am just feel very sorry for her to see people are selfish and individualism. I have been 10 years in the church, first time to witness such thing. This is only small problem ( small accident just imagine with big problem).  When I raise the issue in the church meeting and our cell group. They just don't get it. People in the church do not recognise this is the fundamental problem, because we are so busy with young family. We hardly can cope with ourselves from day to day alone to care for others. I say you think to be Christian is easy, "No" the door of heaven is very narrow, nevertheless, we have to try and have to learn, I think many great strong men in world with many fault, however, if only we are able to recognise it.

[Bob]

How's the situation turning out?

[a-sharp]

curious how this turns out. I don't see how you could be proven to be at fault.

I have a liability release form for my own studio - do you have anything like that?

[timothy42b]

Umm, dora?

I think you are reacting as if this were your own child.

It's not. 

You have to give the mother space to deal with this.  No reason at this point to take on her issues. 

Pre-school, that means under 5 years old, right?

[keypeg]

That's called empathy.

[dora96]

I saw the lady and her little girl at church this Sunday. I was very surprised seeing her there. She said to me " it is so hard to even step in to this place". She had to face the scene of the crime, she didn't look very comfortable. Most people didn't know and asked her what happened to the her little girl. However, the men (leaders of the church) were very distance, they tried to be very busy, talking to guests or doing something else. They didn't have the curtsy to ask how was she doing. It was sad to see the the pride comes before the loving God. 

I think it is very hard for men in the church to show emotion toward woman. I think they don't know how to make a right conversation? I think it is very awkward because she only comes to church with her little girl. She has no partner. I just wonder if we are Christians, have strong belief of the Christian faith and the value and teaching of the bible. Don't the leaders think that it is the golden moment to show care and compassion to the injured, when we see people hurt physically  and need help, don't we think that it really doesn't matter whether you are man or woman. You will have gesture to ask how's thing going? If not that go to the little girl and talk to the child even pray for her and may God protect her and look out for the mother as well.

I don't want to offense anyone here. I know I have heard many people hurt by church and people of the church which cause devastating affect to people's lives. The lady told me that she will forgive and accept that this incident is very sad and unfortunate  event.

In our church, we are very enthusiastic to celebrating Wedding, Birthday, anniversary , Baptism, thanksgivings. But I don't see very often to mourn to the death, the sick and heart broken soul. I don't know what is your church like. Do you feel the same way sometimes? Or the people in your church are very caring and compassion, please let me know I may want to visit.

The lady has told the church leaders that she wants to put this behind her and try to get on with her life. She is still serving the church and I am glad to see such encouragement and put her bitterness away. I know this is not easy for her and this incident will haunt here from time to time.  I told her that there are people will help her and comfort her.      .

[comsmcsc]

Often, people just want to hear "We are so sorry this happened."  The Church employees should not distance themselves from this family.  Showing sympathy for the child's injuries is important and human. The mother may benefit from some counseling from the priest or pastor, and this might be offered to her.

The Church should also consult with its attorney.  There probably is some liability here.  Assisting with the payment of any uninsured medical bills might help difuse the situation; however, it is very important to seek legal advice first.  I hope it all works out for you and, of course, this little girl and her mother.  Keep us posted.

[timothy42b]

That's called empathy.

Could be, but I think she's personalizing this too far.  What she thinks the other mother feels may be just a projection of what she would feel, rather than the actuality. 

Although it does sound like that church isn't all that inclusive or welcoming. 

[keyofc]

This is very unfortunate - Did anyone send the child a getwell card?
Did anyone visit the child to see how they are doing?
This is not even admitting guilt - it is admitting concern.

I would think whether or not who was to blame - everyone would be sorry it happened and show concern for the kid.

If the pastor can't deal with it - why don't the teachers send balloons or something to the kid?

I once fell and hurt myself really hard against steel - and when I looked up - everyone that was around me - was looking out of the window.
And they were not seated facing the window either - it's terrible that people
are afraid to show concern.  I had no intention of suing just not hurting.

Good luck -

[dora96]

The people of the church start to noticing the reckless accident. It causes the mother and child are very unhappy and emotional pain. The church elder and other brother and sister in Christ have visited her. She feels much better. At first, I would think we are Christian and when we hear a child getting burnt by hot tea submitted hospital in an  emergency department. You will offer some sort of comfort or help to the poor mother. When the child discharges from the hospital, and she is actually at church. You think people will praise her that she is brave to overcome the physical pain. Maybe bake a cake for her to make her happier. She may not think it is big deal, but it is to the mother. The mother is so emotional and anxious. I can see she wants the assurances from the people of the church. The children must first come, the soul of the people is priority and church is refuge and strength.

The people in this day and age have changed. We become more self serving, more narrow minded. They are scared to death that they might get into trouble. However, it is good lesson, late is better than never. The bible is so true about humanity and Jesus' teaching is so true about our own reflection about our Christian lives.