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rach piano concerto#2 mov 1 (Read 3038 times)

Offline bluepianist

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rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
« on: November 08, 2008, 02:07:25 AM »
Help!! I 've a piano student about to perform the first mov. of Rach. piano concerto #2.  He and I have just noticed the ties? in meas.
287.  Are these truly ties?  I've listened to a few recordings and Rubinstein plays this as a tie but some others don't.  Is there a definintive answer or edition?  thanks in advance for the help,
Bluepianist

piano sheet music of Piano Concerto 2


Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #1 on: November 09, 2008, 02:39:48 PM »
I am not going to answer this question, but dont worry ;)
If your student is ready for a piece like this, it is definitely the time to let your student (and yourself) thinking about personal interpretation and wich sound your student (or you) prefers, AND WHY.
AND(!):
Dont listen to recordings to figure out how other pianist play this. You should listen to what and how the rest of the orchestra things play, and adapt your pianoplaying to the orchestra. When performing with orchestra you have to view the big picture, realise your only a part of the performance.

gyzzzmo
1+1=11

Offline lau

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 04:06:43 AM »
i'm curious on how you're suppose to go about the beginning chords. I think a few of them are unreachable for the average pianist? especially the 2nd one. I haven't heard anybody roll them before, but i have heard it being split into two blocks per chord.
i'm not asian

Offline cmg

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 03:56:25 PM »
Help!! I 've a piano student about to perform the first mov. of Rach. piano concerto #2.  He and I have just noticed the ties? in meas.
287.  Are these truly ties?  I've listened to a few recordings and Rubinstein plays this as a tie but some others don't.  Is there a definintive answer or edition?  thanks in advance for the help,
Bluepianist

Neither response gives you an answer here.

Measure 287?  Could you be more specific as to which section it is in.  My score (Schirmer) is subdivided in sections, 16 to the first mvt. alone.  I'll try to help, but I sure ain't going to count up to 287 measures for anyone!
Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 04:19:48 PM »
i'm curious on how you're suppose to go about the beginning chords. I think a few of them are unreachable for the average pianist? especially the 2nd one. I haven't heard anybody roll them before, but i have heard it being split into two blocks per chord.

I think there are actually few pianists with the technical quality to deal with this piece, who can not reach this chord, its not THAT big.
1+1=11

Offline thierry13

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 05:12:14 PM »
I think there are actually few pianists with the technical quality to deal with this piece, who can not reach this chord, its not THAT big.

I assure you a lot of pianists have more than the technical quality to deal with the piece and can not reach all the beginning chords.

Offline richard black

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #6 on: November 11, 2008, 10:33:31 PM »
Lots of pianists roll those chords, including (I understand) some who can perfectly well reach them.

As for listening to recordings, of course one shouldn't treat them as any kind of gospel but I think one huge benefit of the technological age is that we can effectively get lessons on well-known pieces like that from literally dozens of fine pianists of our generation and several preceding ones. Not so much lessons in 'how to play it' necessarily, but certainly in 'ways it can be played'. And after all one can learn just as much about how - and why - one _doesn't_ like a piece to be played.
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #7 on: November 12, 2008, 10:08:56 AM »
I assure you a lot of pianists have more than the technical quality to deal with the piece and can not reach all the beginning chords.

You've got to give me their numbers, i would love to have midget pro pianists in my telephone  ;D
1+1=11

Offline Petter

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #8 on: November 12, 2008, 01:59:04 PM »
i'm curious on how you're suppose to go about the beginning chords. I think a few of them are unreachable for the average pianist? especially the 2nd one.

Play the d flat in the the treble with your tongue.
"A gentleman is someone who knows how to play an accordion, but doesn't." - Al Cohn

Offline richard black

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #9 on: November 12, 2008, 05:10:51 PM »
Quote
Play the d flat in the the treble with your tongue.

It's the one in the bass that's the problem!
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #10 on: November 12, 2008, 05:22:38 PM »
It's the one in the bass that's the problem!

Then the sollution would be the d-flat with tongue, and the f..... with the big toe?
1+1=11

Offline bluepianist

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #11 on: November 15, 2008, 06:17:45 PM »
thanks to all of you who responded

a little more clarification for you.  Sorry i'm technically challenged and don't know how to post the score itself for you.  I'm learning more each day.  It is measure 287, it involves an a flat.  It occurs after the maestoso alla marcia, then the menomosso, then the poco a poco calando then 8 more measures.

again thanks
blue pianist

Offline faulty_damper

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #12 on: November 15, 2008, 07:40:57 PM »
Do you mean 8 measures into the poco a poco calando where there is a dim?  And if so, which beat of the measure?  The first beat is a slur (Ab-Eb-Ab) but the Ab from beat 2 is a tie to beat 4.

Offline scottmcc

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #13 on: November 17, 2008, 09:51:54 PM »
I assure you a lot of pianists have more than the technical quality to deal with the piece and can not reach all the beginning chords.

I have neither the technical ability to deal with this piece, nor the ability to reach all of those chords, and I dont have small hands (I can reach a tenth with a gentle stretch).

I can reach the second one, if I cheat and use my R thumb for the C-Db and my L index for the same, but I can't reach the 3rd chord at all (with the D natural).

of course, rachmaninoff had big hands:  http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,14231.new.html

Offline cmg

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Re: rach piano concerto#2 mov 1
«Reply #14 on: November 17, 2008, 11:31:28 PM »
thanks to all of you who responded

a little more clarification for you.  Sorry i'm technically challenged and don't know how to post the score itself for you.  I'm learning more each day.  It is measure 287, it involves an a flat.  It occurs after the maestoso alla marcia, then the menomosso, then the poco a poco calando then 8 more measures.

again thanks
blue pianist

Okay, I know exactly where you mean.  That A-flat on the fourth beat is definitely tied to the A-flat on the second beat.  See how the slur is a "smiley" curve?  I've been playing it that way all my life. 

Frankly, I don't think it matters whether you interpret it as a tie or not, except that the composer might mind!  The tempo moves quickly enough that, with it tied, you get that poignant effect of the major second of B-flat/A-flat.  Ignoring the tied A-flat and striking it again is kind of gilding the lily, you know?  Better go with Rachmaninov. 

Besides, faulty_damper, the forum's resident Notation Monitor has spoken.  As usual, he's correct.
Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)