Should I learn Brahms' or Busoni's transcription of the d minor chaconne?

[thalberg]

I love Bach's d minor chaconne, and I want to learn a piano version of it.  I'm trying to decide between Brahms or Busoni.  Brahms is for only the left hand and it sounds really close to the violin version -- very true to Bach's intentions.  Busoni, I think, departs from Bach's intentions a bit but it is so full and virtuosic that it takes on its own beauty. 

Does anyone have an opinion one way or the other?  Perhaps you have played them or known people who had success with one or the other?

[tds]

how bout both?

[Kassaa]

Brahms definitely, I have played it, it's much more effective than the Busoni imo. This is a nice example of less is more.

[thalbergmad]

Brahms for sure.

Check the following excellent video recording of this work. I do not suggest you try to do it like this.

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UG5WRXhzPmU

Thal

[ahinton]

Brahms for sure.

Both, for sure - and what about the Møller also?...

Check the following excellent video recording of this work. I do not suggest you try to do it like this.

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UG5WRXhzPmU

What this forum would do without Thal is quite simply too awful to contemplate! Priceless!

Best,

Alistair

[db05]

I've heard the Busoni, wouldn't have known it was Chaconne if it weren't for the program. After the concert, a teacher was saying (to the pianist himself) "...the Bach sounded like Bartok..."

Didn't particularly like that guy's playing, though.

[astroboy]

i've played the busoni, its quite satisfying i found.. siloti also did a transcription which you could check out if you wanted to

[communist]

well the Brahms will probably help you more in the future because you will get better practice with your left hand

[thalbergmad]

Both, for sure - and what about the Møller also?...

I appear to be missing this score.

A search of my files appears to indicate transcriptions by Brahms, Busoni, Drillon, Luzatto (2 pianos), Raff (further revised by I Phillip), Briskier (revision of Busoni), Pillney, Schibler, Lamping, Pauer, Siloti & Stradal.

Would make for an interesting disk, non?

Thal

[argerichfan]

Would make for an interesting disk, non?

Then for variety we could throw in the transcription Arthur Wills made for the organ at Ely Cathedral.

[minor9th]

I vote for the Busoni--I love its grandeur, and for me, more is more! (Not to mention I think it seems rather silly not to use both hands all the time!)

[ahinton]

I appear to be missing this score.

The Møller is on a CD recorded by his compatriot the Danish pianist Jørgen Hald Nielsen (who happens to be playing my own Grieg Variations on three occasion in Denmark next month); would you like me to find out about the possibility of your getting a score?

A search of my files appears to indicate transcriptions by Brahms, Busoni, Drillon, Luzatto (2 pianos), Raff (further revised by I Phillip), Briskier (revision of Busoni), Pillney, Schibler, Lamping, Pauer, Siloti & Stradal.

Would make for an interesting disk, non?

Rather more than just one, methinks - and the Thal Library would make an interesting visit, too!...

Best,

Alistair

[richard black]

the Thal Library would make an interesting visit, too!...

Yeah, not half - Thal, where _do_ you find all this stuff, mate?

[argerichfan]

Yeah, not half - Thal, where _do_ you find all this stuff, mate?

Wondering that too.  But Thal has certainly enriched my collection with all sorts of stuff. 

[thalberg]

Brahms for sure.

Check the following excellent video recording of this work. I do not suggest you try to do it like this.

https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UG5WRXhzPmU

Thal

Hahahaha!  That's hilarious.  Actually not bad playing considering the circumstances.  Very impressive.

Seems like people prefer the Brahms.  It does sound more like the original.  On the other hand, then why is it that so many big name pianists (michelangeli, rubinstein, grimaud) have recorded the Busoni? 

Anyway the Brahms is very beautiful and I will probably try to lay my hands (hand?) on the score.  I may learn both like some of you have suggested.

By the way, there is a Youtube recording now of Michelangeli doing the whole busoni.  It's wonderful.

[thalbergmad]

would you like me to find out about the possibility of your getting a score?

Yes please, i have a distinct liking for bach transcriptions.

Thal

[ahinton]

Yes please, i have a distinct liking for bach transcriptions.

OK, I'll see what I can do; in fact, I'm sure that I have a copy myself but cannot immediately lay hands on it after my recent move...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Yeah, not half - Thal, where _do_ you find all this stuff, mate?

My hobby is trawling through English libraries and bookshops looking for scores and over the years i have found friends in Portugal, France, Germany, Sweden etc, who have the same strange habit.

I restrict myself only to concertos and transcriptions, otherwise i would be broke.

Thal

[tds]

then why is it that so many big name pianists (michelangeli, rubinstein, grimaud) have recorded the Busoni? 

coz it's great? 

[thalberg]

I vote for the Busoni--I love its grandeur, and for me, more is more! (Not to mention I think it seems rather silly not to use both hands all the time!)

Yes, there is the grandeur to consider.  That is a good point.  And my right hand would indeed get bored.....

More is more......what a novel concept.  It does make sense.

Well who knows I'll probably purchase both and pick at them in my spare time.

[burstroman]

My favorite of the two is the Brahms transcription, by far.  I prefer the leaner texture to the overblown version of Busoni.

[imbetter]

well if you love the chaconne the brahms is closer to the original version (i once tried to play this piece when i broke my right thumb), but i think the busoni is an all around better musical piece

[goldentone]

Well, the Busoni version is just an epic work.  Hamelin's performance of it is fantastic.  But which one do you like the most?  I look forward to getting down to business with the Busoni when I feel I'm ready. 

Post it for us when you have it ready.

[thalberg]

Well, the Busoni version is just an epic work.  Hamelin's performance of it is fantastic.  But which one do you like the most?  I look forward to getting down to business with the Busoni when I feel I'm ready. 

Post it for us when you have it ready.

Thanks for the link.  It was great.  Michelangeli's Bach/Busoni chaconne was recently also posted.  It's good, too. 

[imbetter]

lol why dont you just learn how to play the violin and play the original

[thalberg]

lol why dont you just learn how to play the violin and play the original

I wish I could play the violin!  Such a great instrument.

[mikey6]

The Møller is on a CD recorded by his compatriot the Danish pianist Jørgen Hald Nielsen (who happens to be playing my own Grieg Variations on three occasion in Denmark

We can't have that kind of grammar on this forum!

[tds]

my own Grieg Variations

Alistair

alistair, where can i hear a recording and/or get the sheet music of it? which grieg's theme u used? tds

[argerichfan]

My favorite of the two is the Brahms transcription, by far.  I prefer the leaner texture to the overblown version of Busoni.

To each his own, I suppose.  It used to be that Brahms was coddled for being an aesthetic and Busoni blasted for being a hedonist.  All rather pointless, really.  The two transcriptions are both brilliantly executed in their own way, no reason that they cannot coexist.  I won't live without either.

[pianovirus]

The third volume of Wittgenstein's School for the Left Hand finishes with what seems to be a transcription of the Brahms transcription. I haven't looked at it so far. Has anyone compared the two versions?

[goldentone]

Thanks for the link.  It was great.  Michelangeli's Bach/Busoni chaconne was recently also posted.  It's good, too. 

Sure.  Glad you listened.    Yes, I listened to Michelangeli's performance the night I saw the link.  This is one of my dream pieces.

[minor9th]

I'm enjoying Helen Grimaud's new Bach CD, on which she plays the Busoni Chaconne (among many other pieces...)

[thalberg]

I'm enjoying Helen Grimaud's new Bach CD, on which she plays the Busoni Chaconne (among many other pieces...)

Wow I'm so glad you told me about that.  I am very interested and will look for it.  I'd be very curious how she plays Bach.

[georgey]

Here is a nice harpsichord transcription that Latrobe recommended to demonstrate good sound of non-equal temperament tuning.

I was not able to find this version, but I found a harpsichord transcription published by Breitkopf and Haertel that I ordered just now.  I can always edit this to my liking by consulting the Bach original.  I was looking for a 2 handed version that is true to Bach.

[symphonicdance]

I think you should explore both.  However, it seems that the Bach-Busoni Chaconne is a more popular choice for pianists to have in their repertoire.  Busoni's Chaconne tends to sound like sonorous organ in a echoing cathedral.  Obviously, some composers had other preferences, and do not like his arrangement.