Market Price for Steinway D

[Spatula]

Whats the going price for one of these Steinway D puppies (more like german sheppards) in CDN OR US currency.  maybe I should check the website.

And would anyone recommend getting a "KAWAI" piano?  I played them and I think they're terrible, not much more use than fire wood.   (no offense to Kawai owners)  

I still want to try a Malmshjo or that piano with 2 extra black keys at the end ( a borendorfer??? or something like that. can't remember name)

[donjuan]

I also hate Kawais.  The kwybed is really low, so it is always pushing on my legs under the piano.  The sound is muffled and annoyingly bright at the same time.  Have you ever played a Petrof?  They must be my favorite piano I have played.
donjuan

[Saturn]

PETROF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a fan of them.

I happen to own a P IV actually.

- Sean

[Hmoll]

Depending on where you're located a S&S D will be around the '90s (US$). You can always talk them donw, though.

[xvimbi]

And would anyone recommend getting a "KAWAI" piano?  I played them and I think they're terrible, not much more use than fire wood.   (no offense to Kawai owners)

I am not a Kawai owner, but I do take offense to such general statements! I'm getting increasingly frustrated over this, and - sorry - you are going to get it.
How many Kawais have you played? What models? What condition were they in? Can you actually judge pianos?
Because you might have come across a couple of Kawais that were not in their best shape does not mean Kawai makes bad pianos! Same thing goes the other direction as well. Fact is, Kawai makes decent pianos.

I still want to try a Malmshjo or that piano with 2 extra black keys at the end ( a borendorfer??? or something like that. can't remember name)

You are considering a Steinway D; you are bashing a reputable piano manufacturer, yet you have never heard of Bösendorfer. Honestly, you can't be taken seriously.

[donjuan]

I am not a Kawai owner, but I do take offense to such general statements! I'm getting increasingly frustrated over this, and - sorry - you are going to get it.
How many Kawais have you played? What models? What condition were they in? Can you actually judge pianos?
Because you might have come across a couple of Kawais that were not in their best shape does not mean Kawai makes bad pianos! Same thing goes the other direction as well. Fact is, Kawai makes decent pianos.

k, Kawais ARE bad!!  I was in the Kawai store, playing NEW instruments, and I was throroughly dissatisfied with the muffled sound and uncomfortable height of the keybed.  I have played on many kawais, new and old from the uprights to the 9 foot concert grand, and I happen to agree with Spatula- They are downright awful instruments with those new "special- ivory-feel alike" keys that turn yellow REALLY fast.
donjuan

[donjuan]

PETROF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a fan of them.

I happen to own a P IV actually.

- Sean

As you can tell, I also love Petrofs.  However, I am ignorant with the classification.  What is a "P IV"? Upright? Grand? what size?  I fell in love with petrof at a store.  I played on a concert grand and was overwhelmed with the limitless power and pristene bell-like tone of the high notes.  I seriously almost cried, I loved it so much.  However, We thought a Yamaha would be better for resale value, so we went for a 5'8'' Yamaha.  It was also pretty good, but I still yearn for that Petrof..
donjuan

[xvimbi]

k, Kawais ARE bad!!  I was in the Kawai store, playing NEW instruments, and I was throroughly dissatisfied with the muffled sound and uncomfortable height of the keybed.

What I am objecting to is generalized statements that are displayed as facts without proper foundation.
I know people who love Kawais, I know people who hate Petroffs, I know people who love Steinways, I know people who hate Bösendorfers. All those manufacturers, and a lot more, make decent pianos overall. You may not LIKE their sound, you may LOVE their action, etc., but this is different from saying "Kawais ARE bad", "Steinways ARE good", etc. It's like saying "Apple strudel is bad", whereas it turns out that you just don't like it.

[Spatula]

Buddy,

there are people who love Yamahas, and there are people who hate Yamahas,

there are people who love Kawais, and there are people who hate Kawais,

there are people who love digital, and there are people who hate digital,

It's a preference, and it's also experience through playing them.  Sure I've not played a Bösendorfer, but I know a good piano when I hear it.  

And regarding the $90 grand for that "grand"...Yeah I was expecting that, time to sell my clothes....or go piano hunting.

[Spatula]

Apple strudels are good!

[Saturn]

As you can tell, I also love Petrofs.  However, I am ignorant with the classification.  What is a "P IV"? Upright? Grand? what size?  I fell in love with petrof at a store.  I played on a concert grand and was overwhelmed with the limitless power and pristene bell-like tone of the high notes.  I seriously almost cried, I loved it so much.  However, We thought a Yamaha would be better for resale value, so we went for a 5'8'' Yamaha.  It was also pretty good, but I still yearn for that Petrof..
donjuan

Actually, I didn't know it was called the P IV until I looked it up on their website.  It's the 5'8" grand, same size as your yamaha.  It has an absolutely lovely tone, and such range!  I haven't played on many other Petrofs, though just the ones in the shop I bought it from, where I also got to try some Bechstein, Bosendorfer, and a lone Kawai which seemed very out of place.  Some of the other Petrofs sounded quite different from each other, all good though.

As for resale value, I don't know much about it.  The last time my tuner (who is also the guy I bought the instrument from) came in, he said that if we were to sell it today, we would be able to get back 100% of what we paid for it.  We've owned it for about 4 years.

I wish I could try a Petrof concert grand!  They must sound amazing.

[donjuan]

Actually, I didn't know it was called the P IV until I looked it up on their website.  It's the 5'8" grand, same size as your yamaha.  It has an absolutely lovely tone, and such range!  I haven't played on many other Petrofs, though just the ones in the shop I bought it from, where I also got to try some Bechstein, Bosendorfer, and a lone Kawai which seemed very out of place.  Some of the other Petrofs sounded quite different from each other, all good though.

As for resale value, I don't know much about it.  The last time my tuner (who is also the guy I bought the instrument from) came in, he said that if we were to sell it today, we would be able to get back 100% of what we paid for it.  We've owned it for about 4 years.

I wish I could try a Petrof concert grand!  They must sound amazing.

How much did you pay, four years ago? In which country?
donjuan

[CPS_Pianotek]

An interesting comparison between Petrof and Kawai...

The Kawai is generally conisidered to be a superior instrument as it's sensitive action parts are impervious to the swelling and shrinking that you find rampant in almost every component in a Petrof/Weinbach (Including the soundboard and case parts). I tell clients that own Petrofs that they have no choice but to install a Dampp-Chaser system in their instruments because if they don't the piano will suffer damage from seasonal swings in ambient temperature and humidity. (I live in Michigan where seasonal fluctuations in the environment are frequent, Petrofs kept in a more stable climate may not suffer from these maladies) I believe it has to do with the relatively high EMC (Equalized Moisture Content) that the wood is dried down to before being used in the instruments construction.  Conversley, Kawai's action components are so resistant to these humidity/temperature changes (due to precision casting from ABS) that I rarely have to travel (correct the geometry) of the parts as is usually required in the prep of other instruments. Also, if you haven't tried to play one yet, the new Shigeru Kawai are really awesome!!! Give them a try before making blanket statements about their pianos.

Another thing to keep in mind... blanket statements about manufacturers should be taken with a grain of salt - as tonal and touch prefrences are largely subjective.  Also the better the piano's quality of design, materials and construction , the more unique the pianos will be as  individual instruments - meaning you have to compare individual instruments, not makes and models, to be fair.

R.Cromwell
Cromwell's Piano Service - Detroit, MI

[Saturn]

How much did you pay, four years ago? In which country?
donjuan

I paid $17,000 (USD), including the first tuning/regulation, moving, all that stuff.  I bought it right here in the US (hawaii).

It has one of those Dampp-Chaser systems which CPS-Pianotek mentioned.

[xvimbi]

An interesting comparison between Petrof and Kawai...

...

Another thing to keep in mind... blanket statements about manufacturers should be taken with a grain of salt - as tonal and touch prefrences are largely subjective.  Also the better the piano's quality of design, materials and construction , the more unique the pianos will be as  individual instruments - meaning you have to compare individual instruments, not makes and models, to be fair.

Well put, thank you!

I was aware that [blanket_statement] Petrof is not one of the premier makes [/blanket_statement], but it seems to be much worse than I thought.

[donjuan]

I paid $17,000 (USD), including the first tuning/regulation, moving, all that stuff.  I bought it right here in the US (hawaii).

It has one of those Dampp-Chaser systems which CPS-Pianotek mentioned.

You have a Petrof 5'8'' Grand and you live in Hawaii.  
Green with envy,
donjuan

[Saturn]

You have a Petrof 5'8'' Grand and you live in Hawaii.  
Green with envy,
donjuan

What can I say?  I love my life.

Hawaii is beautiful, but every place has its disadvantages.

I hear Canada is also quite nice, though I don't know much about Alberta.

- Saturn

[donjuan]

yeh, if I were from Hawaii, I wouldnt know too much about Alberta either. lol! The difference is the ocean, warm weather, palm trees, and beautiful women on the beaches.  sigh..oh well...
donjuan  

[Babcock]

I just bought a Steinway D that was part of the Steinway rental fleet and has the CD number in addition to its serial number.  It has been very well cared for over the years, mainly at a university so it has not been moved out of its hall often at all.  It was built in 1969 and I paid a lot less than the 90's that have been mentioned.  It is glorious.

[Spatula]

You got a steinway D? how jealous am I?

how much btw? not like I have the cash for it  

[Babcock]

I don't know what you mean by "btw".

[donjuan]

btw= By The Way

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=nopi;action=display;num=1085202164

have a look at this thread I started I while back when I was getting bogged down with internet acronyms.
donjuan

[Babcock]

Thank you for the information.  Now to answer the question as to price for the D, all I am prepared to say is ,"a lot"!

[Axtremus]

New York Steinway Model D, black, currently lists for close to 93k USD. Steinway usually does not discount, so I guess somewhere around 93k USD would be an actual price for a basic black Steinway D for a private individual buyer in the US. (Not long ago, IIRC, a Steinway dealer in my region advertised a retired C&A NY Steinway D for around 65k USD.)

Other countries would more likely get the Hamburg Model D, and I have no idea what a new black Hamburg D would go for these days.

[Babcock]

My New York D is not new; it's a retired piano from the concert division and has a CD number.  It has a basic black satin finish with the reinforcing rails along the long side for durability when moving, and three extra braces on the inside of the lid.  The 65K USD noted seems to be an average price, but I paid less than that, due partly to luck and partly due to connections.

[benji]

It is not uncommon for Steinways to sell for 10-20% more than the list price.

donjuan-I'm in the same situation as you: Played a Petrof and a Yamaha (both 5'8") at a store and LOVED the Petrof. Sadly we had to go with the Yamaha because it would be more stable in Iowa's weird weather. :\

[beethoven]

A Steinway D's price is going to be dependent on its year, materials, craftsmanship and condition. A 1924 fully restored Steinway D is going to cost much more than an unrestored D from the 1950s. The reason is that Steinway instruments built in the 1920s and 1930s are reputedly the most well-crafted pianos in the entire history of Steinway, surpassing the instruments of today. Restored and refinished instruments are usually much more valuable than non-restored instruments with the possible exception of very old pianos of museum quality. We currently have a Steinway D at our store (Beethoven Pianos). It was built in 1875 and made of rosewood and retails for $100,000. That may be more expensive than the typical D. Like I said, many variables play a part in determining the value of a piano.

I personally have to agree with the naysayers. Kawai pianos don't sound very good to me. Yamaha pianos are more sonorous, while a Kawai just sounds more brittle to my ears, but I am no expert. I'd take the perfect balance of a Steinway B any day--less booming than a concert grand and rich and deep enough to full the average home. The keys even feel much better to the touch.