hardest "piece" in the world

[macman1288]

what do you think is the hardest "piece" in the world on piano, not counting rachmaninoff piano concerto no.3 ..??

[donjuan]

Brahm's paganini variations are as close to impossible as it gets, without actually being impossible...

Prokofiev's Toccata Op11 is also very difficult- It may break your hands before you finish it.

there are many other very difficult works, ill write back when I think of them...

[nerd]

Chopin-Godowsky: Etudes

EDIT: You can find some of them here: https://www.roberthenry.org/

If someone knows more places where these can be downloaded for free, please tell

[DarkWind]

https://www.geocities.com/alanchan1048576/mus/music.html

Some Godowsky Etudes. Anyways, I think Balakirev's Islamey, and mostly anything by Ravel, especially Gaspard De La Nuit, is insanely hard. Someone in another thread said that Boulez' Sonatas are harder than Islamey. Yeah, but which sounds better? I cover my ears when I hear things like that, like Xenakis' Herma. Ugh, Islamey is much more worth the effort.

[etuden88]

I want to raise a side question here...when one thinks of the most 'difficult' piece in the world, people tend to want to think of works by rachmaninoff, Alkan, Liszt, etc. However, composers like Messaien, Boulez (already mentioned), Sorabji, or perhaps even Schoenberg, Berg, and Weber can easily beat out any of the aforementioned composers in the difficulty of their piano works. Not necessarily because it 'sounds' difficult to play--but the stamina, mental focus, and musical understanding required to competently perform their pieces is immense. My question is, should we separate these groups of composers when considering difficulty within the corpus of piano literature?

Nathan

[thracozaag]

what do you think is the hardest "piece" in the world on piano, not counting rachmaninoff piano concerto no.3 ..??

Godowsky Passacaglia
Reger Variations and Fugue on a theme of Bach
Scriabin Sonatas #7, 8
Boulez 2nd sonata
Alkan concerto
Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 #9

Sorabji is in another category altogether

koji

[EthanT]

rachmaninoff prelude #9 isnt THAT hard... not one the HARDEST.

--Hardest ones that i know of
-Schumann- Toccatta
-And yes Prokofief Toccatta
-Scriabin Sonata #5.. all of them really =p

Im sure liszt is somewhere in the too... Totentanz sounds like one hell of a peice... Mephisto Waltz is tough, prolly not the hardest though heh.

[donjuan]

Totentanz sounds like one hell of a peice.

i before e, except after...

[rainmaker]

BACH-preludio fuga in c major, book 1.

[Motrax]

I think Sorabji is the toughest composer ever. I barely know his music, one of my friends just showed me one of his pieces (a Sonata, I think?), and it's just a joke. 5-note chords in both hands, playing rhythms like 11 notes over 7, just plain foolishness. And I doubt it really SOUNDS nice. The amount of work needed to extract a decent performance from the piece far outweighs any satisfaction one might gain from being able to play it.

[thracozaag]

rachmaninoff prelude #9 isnt THAT hard... not one the HARDEST.

--Hardest ones that i know of
-Schumann- Toccatta
-And yes Prokofief Toccatta
-Scriabin Sonata #5.. all of them really =p

Im sure liszt is somewhere in the too... Totentanz sounds like one hell of a peice... Mephisto Waltz is tough, prolly not the hardest though heh.

 The Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 #9 is harder, as a double note etude than Feux Follets, The Schumann Toccata, or Chopin Op. 25 #6

koji

[thierry13]

I want to see what that sorabji looks like...do you know where could i have a look?

[liszmaninopin]

I could email you some PDF's of Sorabji.

[thierry13]

Yes it would be very apreciated! My e-mail is : counter_striker325@hotmail.com ... but if the files are big, please send them to my brother : skater07.08@caramail.com ... thanks for all!

[liszmaninopin]

How big is too big?

[willcowskitz]

Always when this question comes up, I've seen people suggest:

Rachmaninoff's 3rd
Balakirev's Islamey
Prokofiev's Toccata

Recently "Alkan" has been added to the list as self-explanatory.

I myself am not a very good pianist but I think that if you're good enough to play Liszt's or Chopin's (totally different difficulties) pieces musically and with clarity, there's no impossible piece from the typical repertoire as the difficulty that people think about is usually the "How fast you can move your fingers without loss in strength and accuracy" type of difficulty.  For me, almost any work from Chopin is difficult, as Chopin's music seems to require technical freedom of hands that I haven't yet found. A lot of Liszt, on the other hand, CAN be played mechanically (hands-wise), almost with stiff hands.

I'm just pointing out that there doesn't exist ONE "hardest" piece, but it depends on what you mean by "hard". Usually though, people want to know what piece is the most impressive one to perform - yet again, there's no exclusive answer for this either.

From scores that I've looked through I must admit Sorabji's Clavicembalisticum was the most insane. Chords with 6 notes in them look fancy on the pages but I'm not sure if it sounds good. The music itself never opened up to me anyway so I'm not the one to ask.

Anyhow, I'll add to the "difficult pieces" list Liszt's Sonata.

[DarkWind]

I could email you some PDF's of Sorabji.

Hey, please send some to me as well! I just heard about his Opus Cambisomething, the one thats 3-4 hours long. I am scared now! You can send me anything up to 950 mb in size . Send them please at darkwind @ darkwinddesign . com

[thierry13]

Send them to my brother and there will surely be no problem! skater07.08@caramail.com ... thanks... the maximum now is 950 meg   thanks!

[liszmaninopin]

I'll send a pdf to that address within the next few minutes.

[thierry13]

Thanks i've received it... this guy was kidding or what?!?!?!?

[liszmaninopin]

That's actually not the scariest one.  It was the scariest that I could attach to the mail; most of the others are too big for me to send.

[thierry13]

WHAT??!!?? this guy was a psycho!   Were he a great performer of his works in his life?

[liszmaninopin]

I think he played his Opus Clavicembalisticum in public a time or two (quite an accomplishment, really).  I think he recorded a few of his works, and did play them, yes.  However, all the commercial recordings of his works are by other pianists.  I really don't care for too much of his music, but I enjoy a few pieces, the Fantaisie Espagnole, Gulistan, and Djami.  I don't really care for the Sonata as a piece of music.

[A.C.]

All Mozart's, Bach's and Beethoven's piano works

[thierry13]

The mozart's, bach's and beethoven's are not easy but there not so hard... and they have all written real easy things... but there are things that are REALLY harder that that... look at chopin's etude, liszt ( allmost all of his works),sorabji(for me the hardest of all),Alkan, Rachmaninoff(concertos principally)...all those are really tougher that mozart bach and beethoven!!

[JK]

Hi again A.C.! I would tend to agree with that and would add Haydn and Schubert, pieces by these composers are not always technically demanding (although some of course are, Hammerclavier comes to mind!) but they are very hard to play well and convincingly, they are also very hard to win an audience over with! I often think that virtuosic pieces such as some of those by Liszt are the easiest to pull off because no matter how you play, as long as you play mostly right notes and up to speed, the audience will be impressed, of course this will depend partly on the knowledge of music that the audience has!

[thierry13]

We did'nt talk about how the piece would impress the crowd... but to us to play REALLY perfectly a piece by liszt, with all the details the effects and all...that's MUCH harder...it's not by winning a crowd by playing notes without emotion, that you will win competitions or be the greatest pianist on earth! And it's also easy to win a crowd with some virtuosic sonatas of beethoven!

[JK]

Yes I agree but I think that when you play a sonata by Mozart for example, you have nothing to hide behind, no virtuosity to cover up lack of musical understanding, this in a way makes the interprtation of a piece of Mozart harder than that of Liszt because everything must be absolutely right. Therefore I would suggest that some of the hardest pieces ever are those that don't distract you with having to play loads of notes, where you are completely exposed in terms of how good your musicality is and completely reliant on your musical understanding and interpretation.

In my opinion what makes a piece hard is not technical difficulty, after all the modern piano technique can mannage the most difficult of pieces, but how difficult it is to understand and convey the musical meaning and qualities that the piece has, as well as producing an interpretation that is at once musical and original, this ultimately is what will engage an audience and is in my opinion what playing music is all about!

[A.C.]

thank you JK, haha.

Yes, the word "hardest" in music is in fact ambiguous. If you say technically hardest, it must belong to Liszt, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, so forth; but if "hardest" is about interpretation, it must be Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn and Schubert et al.

In my opinion, music is an art. Aesthetically, "hardest" should be about interpretation.

[thracozaag]

thank you JK, haha.

Yes, the word "hardest" in music is in fact ambiguous. If you say technically hardest, it must belong to Liszt, Scriabin, Rachmaninoff, so forth; but if "hardest" is about interpretation, it must be Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn and Schubert et al.

In my opinion, music is an art. Aesthetically, "hardest" should be about interpretation.

 It's just as easy to play lousy Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, and Schubert et al. as it is to play lousy Liszt, Scriabin Rachmaninoff, so forth.

koji

[A.C.]

Thracozaag, I dun quite understand what u mean, but is there anyone aiming to play lousy music?

[steinwaymodeld]

The Godowsky version of Winterwind etude is definately up there (after i watched AnDre play it this morning)

My opinion might change later though....

[Spatula]

Lously music scores next to zero in festivals.  

[rainmaker]

hi! what do you mean by saying hard ''piece'' my friend? let me guess: it is when you see a bunch of tones on the score and you say ''holy sh*t,who wrote that?'' right?
regards

[steinwaymodeld]

hi! what do you mean by saying hard ''piece'' my friend? let me guess: it is when you see a bunch of tones on the score and you say ''holy sh*t,who wrote that?'' right?
regards

i used to have the same feeling for La Campanella until I have learnt it.

[steinwaymodeld]

hi! what do you mean by saying hard ''piece'' my friend? let me guess: it is when you see a bunch of tones on the score and you say ''holy sh*t,who wrote that?'' right?
regards

[pixie_123]

Hey Lizmaninopin can you please send me a piece by Sorabji i cant find any of his works please at:
   
                      pixie_123@hotmail.com

[xvimbi]

The hardest piece in the world is always the one that I am working on and that I can't play (yet).