Pieces that shouldn't have been composed?

[indutrial]

Bartok's pieces are an absolute piece of...........(not going to mention)
Really, their totally boring and lacks bounciness.

Your argument is about as convincing as your English.

[nightlordq]

Your argument is about as convincing as your English.

I don't quite get what you mean, but sounds like your trying to be offensive.

[thalbergmad]

He does not have to try, it comes naturally

[healdie]

youve got to admit it wasn't the best of posts, I think Bartok made a huge contribution to music, and lacks bounciness check out his piano concertos some of them are pretty bouncy

[ctrastevere]

youve got to admit it wasn't the best of posts, I think Bartok made a huge contribution to music, and lacks bounciness check out his iano concertos some of them are pretty bouncy

Or a huge portion of his piano music... some of it is so bouncy it becomes obnoxious.

But yes, Bartok certainly had a lot of great music. Have you (nightlordq) heard the piano concerto, concerto for orchestra, or Allegro Barbaro?

[naturlaut]

Most of Haydn and Schumann;
A good deal of Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Mendelssohn;
A good half of Mozart's piano output (that includes sonatas for other instruments and piano);
All the lesser Beethoven sonatas and many of Schubert's;
Pretty much all the Classical concerto favourites: Tchaikovsky 1st, Rachmaninoff 2nd, Chopin 1st and 2nd, etc.;
I can do without some early Scriabin, Lyadov, Balakirev, and pretty much all those Russian romantic composers who were imitating Chopin/Alkan/Liszt at the start of their careers;
A great deal of transcriptions made during the 19th century of Beethoven symphonies, Schubert songs, Rossini operas, Bach, etc.;
Some early "American" music.


I agree that 19th century salon pieces have scrap value of art and music in it, but at least they are fun to play (some of them are).  The problem with the pieces listed above is that they are not bad per se, but they are too highly regarded for what they are worth.  If I had to sit through another Rachmaninoff 2nd concerto...  argh!

[naturlaut]

4'33" shouldn't have been written? Au contraire. mon chere, it's quite catchy; just yesterday I caught myself humming it. No. It is essential repertoire.

Shush, I'm listening to it.  I don't want to miss the ending.

[naturlaut]

Wagner!!!! music would sound very different today without him I can see why you might not like him but without him there would be no Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Berg, Shostakovich, R.Strauss

The history of music would not be complete without his influence so I have to disagree with that, this is not a thread about composers you don't like

You can't use that as an argument because everything that ever existed in the world has, in one way or another, influenced another.  To put it another way, even Saddam Hussein has friends.  How it has influenced (positively or negatively) does not speak of its merits.

[communist]

Most of Haydn and Schumann;
A good deal of Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Mendelssohn;
A good half of Mozart's piano output (that includes sonatas for other instruments and piano);
All the lesser Beethoven sonatas and many of Schubert's;
Pretty much all the Classical concerto favourites: Tchaikovsky 1st, Rachmaninoff 2nd, Chopin 1st and 2nd, etc.;
I can do without some early Scriabin, Lyadov, Balakirev, and pretty much all those Russian romantic composers who were imitating Chopin/Alkan/Liszt at the start of their careers;
A great deal of transcriptions made during the 19th century of Beethoven symphonies, Schubert songs, Rossini operas, Bach, etc.;
Some early "American" music.


I agree that 19th century salon pieces have scrap value of art and music in it, but at least they are fun to play (some of them are).  The problem with the pieces listed above is that they are not bad per se, but they are too highly regarded for what they are worth.  If I were to sit through another Rachmaninoff 2nd concerto...  argh!

funny how i like almost all of those pieces and composers

[opus10no2]

I actually think music is all objectively pointless.

[naturlaut]

funny how i like almost all of those pieces and composers

As I said, I don't think they are bad, I just think that they are way over-rated. 

[argerichfan]

funny how i like almost all of those pieces and composers

Not to worry.  Signal to noise ratio on this thread has reached embarrassing proportions. 

[communist]

As I said, I don't think they are bad, I just think that they are way over-rated. 

They are not overrated but a great deal is underrated

[nanabush]

Ya, alot of the stuff mentioned here is actually good music 
Just because something's overplayed doesn't mean it shouldn't have been composed...
Dream Theatre is not the first thing that should come to people's minds - at least they can play the hell out of their instruments.

[rachmanny]

Im putting a repertoire so i can enter a piano competition, i was recommended some prokofiev so i introduced myself into the horrid world of modern music these past days and now my ears are suffering internal bleeding and my eardrums turned inside out.

Is that all there is to it? modern music i mean, fine the expressions are all great and the color and differences whatever. But whats so wrong with making it understandable, coherent? Dissonance is a great harmonic resource but only sometimes. Prokofiev and some of scriabin use it ALL THE TIME, which makes me think these works where made blindfolded after listening to a whole tape of indian rythmical drums the whole night, heck i bet if i go to an african tribe and get the town drummer to sit in front of a piano he would come up with similar nonsense. Until now the only prokofiev i *sort of* accept  is sonata no.3 op.28, but far from being in any of my classical playlists. Soo...  Ill keep wandering in this hot lava without sneakers to see if i get a soothing sandy beach to stand on and say that i like it, but we`ll see about that.

I dont know but i prefer to compose my own work and enter a piano composition saying its modern.

sorry prokofiev fans

[thalbergmad]

Im putting a repertoire so i can enter a piano competition, i was recommended some prokofiev so i introduced myself into the horrid world of modern music these past days and now my ears are suffering internal bleeding and my eardrums turned inside out.

I too have being trying to ease myself into the 20th century, but it is not without pain. Some of it is as tuneful as a elephant sliding down a razor blade or someone drawing on a balloon with a felt tip pen, but i have found pieces that interest me.

If you have been used to a tonal world, some 20th century works can be unpleasant to the ear, but i do believe it is an acquired taste. I threw up when i drank my first pint of Guiness, but now i love it.

If you keep trying, you will find something you like. Even i managed that.

Thal

[opus10no2]

The taste is aquired by a completely different kind of listening.

Prokofiev is very tuneful and not modern.

I direct all newcomers to modern piano music to Rzewski's 'People united' variations, very accesible and tuneful while also employing newer techniques and dissonances.

[Petter]

Im putting a repertoire so i can enter a piano competition, i was recommended some prokofiev so i introduced myself into the horrid world of modern music these past days and now my ears are suffering internal bleeding and my eardrums turned inside out.

Is that all there is to it? modern music i mean, fine the expressions are all great and the color and differences whatever. But whats so wrong with making it understandable, coherent? Dissonance is a great harmonic resource but only sometimes. Prokofiev and some of scriabin use it ALL THE TIME, which makes me think these works where made blindfolded after listening to a whole tape of indian rythmical drums the whole night, heck i bet if i go to an african tribe and get the town drummer to sit in front of a piano he would come up with similar nonsense. Until now the only prokofiev i *sort of* accept  is sonata no.3 op.28, but far from being in any of my classical playlists. Soo...  Ill keep wandering in this hot lava without sneakers to see if i get a soothing sandy beach to stand on and say that i like it, but we`ll see about that.

I dont know but i prefer to compose my own work and enter a piano composition saying its modern.

sorry prokofiev fans

Do you thnik this https://se.youtube.com/watch?v=Azo68LgdqTQ is total rubbish? 

[juwaru]

Gustav Holst Planets Suite!!!!!!!!! That illegitimate son of a Xanthippe. They are popular, however, and I am supremely convinced that Holst is responsible for Pluto's loss of planet status. He decided not to write a piece for it when it was discovered, and that led to its demise. I guess Earth isn't one of the pieces either... [dim7 tremolos]

[mikey6]

Gustav Holst Planets Suite!!!!!!!!! That illegitimate son of a Xanthippe. They are popular, however, and I am supremely convinced that Holst is responsible for Pluto's loss of planet status. He decided not to write a piece for it when it was discovered, and that led to its demise. I guess Earth isn't one of the pieces either... [dim7 tremolos]

ah yeh, considering Pluto was discovered 15 years AFTER Host wrote his suite.....

[airasia]

Rap should never have been invented. I seriously blame it for a lot of society's problems: gang violence, general ignorance, misogyny, increased drug sales, lack of respect for life, etc., etc. I realize all rap does not promote such negativity, but a lot of it does. Ever heard of a drive-by shooting at a piano recital?

haha if you are above 16 years old, you are the one of "general ignorance."  Rap was the origin of all those things right? Nothing else happened before those things that might have CAUSED rap to talk about those things right?  "Rapping" or MCing originally started in the inner-city as an alternative to most of those things mentioned, as a way to avoid violent gangs by using lyricism as an outlet.  Sure lots of mainstream rap has become pretty bad, you're right about that, but there is tons of good that you don't hear, and come on, the origins of all those things came from those in power in white male-dominated societies.  You think rap started misogyny and gang violence? WOW, look in the BIBLE even.

[ctrastevere]

haha if you are above 16 years old, you are the one of "general ignorance."  Rap was the origin of all those things right? Nothing else happened before those things that might have CAUSED rap to talk about those things right?  "Rapping" or MCing originally started in the inner-city as an alternative to most of those things mentioned, as a way to avoid violent gangs by using lyricism as an outlet.  Sure lots of mainstream rap has become pretty bad, you're right about that, but there is tons of good that you don't hear, and come on, the origins of all those things came from those in power in white male-dominated societies.  You think rap started misogyny and gang violence? WOW, look in the BIBLE even.

I agree with the general sentiment expressed here -- some accounts of the violence and such by certain rappers is truly chilling. The best "serious" rappers are the ones who ultimately spread a message of positivity through their tales of depravity. The people who argue that rap has no value are either only acquainted with the mainstream artists that glorify misogyny and gang violence, or jumping on the "rap isn't music" bandwagon because they don't think they'll be challenged.

I recommend Mos Def's album Black on Both Sides to those who think that rap is a waste of time. It may alter your opinion.

[alpacinator1]

Ya, alot of the stuff mentioned here is actually good music 
Just because something's overplayed doesn't mean it shouldn't have been composed...
Dream Theatre is not the first thing that should come to people's minds - at least they can play the hell out of their instruments.

What, someone said Dream Theater? That's not cool.

[Petter]

Rap should never have been invented. I seriously blame it for a lot of society's problems: gang violence, general ignorance, misogyny, increased drug sales, lack of respect for life, etc., etc. I realize all rap does not promote such negativity, but a lot of it does. Ever heard of a drive-by shooting at a piano recital?

Thinking about how the ancient Greek writers rejected certain modes and timbre cause they thought it would invoke pity indolence and softness in the person exposed by it.
 And how jazz would deprive the whole world of it´s pureness but instead turned into a generally accepted artform (well, except on this forum)
 A bit of the same deal with rap music me thinks. Future will judge it, like Beethovens late string quartets or something...