Pieces that shouldn't have been composed?

[healdie]

Alkan op 39 no 1 - Comme le Vent.  I can stand intensely dissonant new complexity crap but I can't listen to more than a few seconds of this.  It's like nails on a chalkboard.

I am not familier with this work but I checked out a bit of it and its sounds failry dull and doesn't really challenge anything (I know that not music can do this) but I don't think that the world of music would be too different without this

[matthew from florida]

Never heard of 4'33", but Wikipedia tells me it is one of the dumbest 'songs' composed.

There is some, but not much, boring music by Mozart, Bach, and the rest.

Fur Elise is fine but I am aware it is overplayed.

However all rock music, R&B and Soul, Rap & Hip Hop, Punk & Hardcore, Heavy Metal, Country, Oldies, Easy Listening, and New Age & Environmental should not exist, not to mention they don't have much substance.

[gerryjay]

Never heard of 4'33", but Wikipedia tells me it is one of the dumbest 'songs' composed.

really?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_cage
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4'33

[ctrastevere]

However all rock music, R&B and Soul, Rap & Hip Hop, Punk & Hardcore, Heavy Metal, Country, Oldies, Easy Listening, and New Age & Environmental should not exist, not to mention they don't have much substance.

Because I'm sure you actually have the knowledge to back up that assertion...

Dream Theater, Disappear -

Dream Theater, Metropolis Pt. 1-

Dream Theater, Octavarium -

Led Zeppelin, Stairway to Heaven -

&feature=related
Metallica, One -

Nightwish, Ghost Love Score -

Opeth, A Fair Judgment -

Opeth, Face of Melinda -

Pain of Salvation, Iter Impius -

Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody -

Symphony X, The Odyssey -

Virgin Black, Lacrimosa -

If you honestly think that nothing listed above has "substance," then I don't know what to tell you. Learn to be a bit more open minded.

[matthew from florida]

Never heard of 4'33", but Wikipedia tells me it is one of the dumbest 'songs' composed.

There is some, but not much, boring music by Mozart, Bach, and the rest.

Fur Elise is fine but I am aware it is overplayed.

However all rock music, R&B and Soul, Rap & Hip Hop, Punk & Hardcore, Heavy Metal, Country, Oldies, Easy Listening, and New Age & Environmental should not exist, not to mention they don't have much substance.

Perhaps substance isn't the best word.

Also for some of those genres there may be a few ok pieces, but I'm yet to hear them.

[alpacinator1]

Because I'm sure you actually have the knowledge to back up that assertion...

Dream Theater, Disappear -

Dream Theater, Metropolis Pt. 1-

Dream Theater, Octavarium -

Led Zeppelin, Stairway to Heaven -

&feature=related
Metallica, One -

Nightwish, Ghost Love Score -

Opeth, A Fair Judgment -

Opeth, Face of Melinda -

Pain of Salvation, Iter Impius -

Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody -

Symphony X, The Odyssey -

Virgin Black, Lacrimosa -

If you honestly think that nothing listed above has "substance," then I don't know what to tell you. Learn to be a bit more open minded.

Wonderful music there,  I hate people who say rock and metal are talentless and without substance...

[healdie]

totally agree bands like rush and dream theatre are incredibly hard play and don't get me started on the works of Steve Vai that stuff is impossible

Also remeber Frank Zappa had just as much an impact on the classical world as he did the Rock one he could do both incredibly well

[ahinton]

99.9% of Sorabji

OK, Thal - so what's that other 0.1% consists of, s'il vous plaît?...

and anything written in the last 30 years

Only 30 now? - my, how you've reduced your game here?!...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Hey, hey, hey now. The piece isn't that great, but it isn't awful. Surely, if you want to abolish a piece by Carter, it should be his Holiday Overture. Now that piece is 9 minutes and 45 seconds of uselessness. It's the single piece written by Carter with the least amount of mental thought process.

Oh, nonsense! Where's your sense of humour - and wit? It may have odd frissons of Walton as well as the big-American Copland to whom it was dedicated, but it was as genuine an expression as anything else of Carter, as long as one recognises its particular wartime context and why and how he wrote the piece. It's also a piece of fun (with some rather more disturbing undercurents)...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

And perhaps you shouldn't have gone near a forum - or indeed any other kind of group that might risk being populated by sentient humans...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I've not even chalked up as many as fifty of them yet...

Best,

Alistair

[matthew from florida]

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

I'm surprised you would go near a piano, that was Chopin's main instrument anyway.

[instromp]

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

Seems he was successful at starting a fight.

[gerryjay]

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

what else would he do? shine george sand's boots?

[argerichfan]

i did not know you would take so personally if i insulted Chopin and by the way i am not twelve and i do not see whats wrong with my sig.

You have changed your 'sig' since, so my comment no longer applies.  I don't recall what it was anyway... it's been a while.

I don't take it at all personally that you insult Chopin, that's your business, I find it rather a laugh.  Considering that Chopin is almost universally considered one of the greatest composers ever -you are certainly entitled to disagree- yet you really need to get on to another forum, as no one with the least familiarity with piano music is going to agree with you. 

And sorry mate, this isn't going to be a case of the 'emperor's clothes'.  History has unequivocally proven you wrong, you cannot reverse that.  Making a statement such as you have simply damages your credibility, not Chopin's.   

[csharp_minor]

I agree. All this modern "music" as people call it: dance, rave, those high-pitched people that sound like gerbals-on-helium and noises that are so bad that banging on a bin-lid sounds more musical is so pointless.

You mean like:

&feature=related

Any remix of a classical piece should of not been made. Most of the stuff I think should not of been 'composed' doesn't even come under the word 'composition' let alone a 'piece' IMO. But just so you know anything containing  'MC-ing'  should not exist.

This Isn’t really the best example of what I mean, but does anyone remember? :

ROFL

[csharp_minor]

i would like rap if they made an effort to give it structure and sometimes tried to write a song longer than 3 minutes

The thing is though its really repetitive would you really want to hear that for more then 4 mins?! I listened to a dance tune that was repetitive and was 10 mins long ( in 'modern' dance music thats is long ) > _ <

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

...Ouch! 


harsh words, harsh.

[pianisten1989]

Chopin should have never went near a composition sheet

You aren't serious, are you?

[gerryjay]

I listened to a dance tune that was repetitive and was 10 mins long ( in 'modern' dance music thats is long )

dear c sharp minor:
if you actually listened to that, you made a mistake, my friend: you was supposed to behave in a pre-coitus mood, which does not require any listening at all. 
best!

[csharp_minor]

dear c sharp minor:
if you actually listened to that, you made a mistake, my friend: you was supposed to behave in a pre-coitus mood, which does not require any listening at all. 
best!

I can assure you there was nothing 'coitus' as you say, in what I was doing while listening to it!  . No I used to like listening to dance music before I got into classical.

[csharp_minor]

You aren't serious, are you?

Unfortunately he isn't joking. Seems to have a problem with our beloved Fred...

[nanabush]

Because I'm sure you actually have the knowledge to back up that assertion...

Dream Theater, Disappear -

Dream Theater, Metropolis Pt. 1-

Dream Theater, Octavarium -

Led Zeppelin, Stairway to Heaven -

&feature=related
Metallica, One -

Nightwish, Ghost Love Score -

Opeth, A Fair Judgment -

Opeth, Face of Melinda -

Pain of Salvation, Iter Impius -

Queen, Bohemian Rhapsody -

Symphony X, The Odyssey -

Virgin Black, Lacrimosa -

If you honestly think that nothing listed above has "substance," then I don't know what to tell you. Learn to be a bit more open minded.

Thank you!  Jeez alot of people slamming music like this are ignorant.  I was going to mention Metropolis by Dream Theatre as a 'modern' song that actually has musical content, and pretty much any other song by them.  They don't follow strict classical conventions, but if people bring that argument up, then they are just finding reasons to defend a losing battle.

Alot of bands today have music that is 'pleasant' to the ear, and has an extent of musical content.  Classical composers have more musical content and rules to their pieces, but I'm not going to pretend to be an intellectual by defending a genuinely bad sounding piece by saying "ohh this is a higher form of music than today's rock and rap"... thats total bs imo.

[edwardweiss]

 Anything at all by Steven Sondheim and Benjamin Britten.

[instromp]

Anything at all by Steven Sondheim and Benjamin Britten.

Benjamin Britten hmm, i didnt find Ceremony of Carols to be something that shouldnt have been composed.

[kitty on the keys]

Chopin---Mazurkas Wagner---anything

kitty on the keys

[Petter]

Any remix of a classical piece should of not been made.

I disagree  

Some mixes are really appealing. And it is dance music after all. I think it´s as obvious as in other genres if there´s creativity or ambition behind it.
 And Sondheim is great.

[Petter]

[edwardweiss]

 Sondheim is hell! He only ever wrote one tune. Britten the same. And that tune doesn't go either up or down enough. Give me Max Reger or Sorabji any day-at least there is complex counterpoint to tax the ears. I love their stuff. And Wagner-he could orchestrate somewhat-I could live to be a million and never learn to score like that. Oh, please excuse me-I've just had a couple of glasses of Wisniowa.

[Petter]

I just know the Sweeney Todd soundtrack after the blockbuster film recently and I was quite surprised that the music was as good as it was. Haven´t heard anything else except I know he wrote the lyrics for West Side story which is a great musical.

[argerichfan]

Sondheim is hell! He only ever wrote one tune.

How many of Sondheim's musicals do you know?  That's a very ignorant statement, but you probably only know Send in the Clowns, right? 

Britten the same. And that tune doesn't go either up or down enough.

What tune?  How much of Britten do you know?  Aren't you basically playing a bluff here?  Do you know Billy Budd, Death in Venice, Rejoice in the Lamb, not to mention the 'War Requiem', or the numerous works he wrote for the Anglican communion? 

Give me Max Reger or Sorabji any day-at least there is complex counterpoint to tax the ears.

I love Reger and Sorabji's shorter works, but reading the basic tenor of your post, I'm tempted to believe this is yet another bluff on your part.  What exactly makes Reger's counterpoint more complex than Bach?  You're trying to demonstrate sophistication aren't you?   The more notes, the greater the music?

And Wagner-he could orchestrate somewhat-I could live to be a million and never learn to score like that.

Yes, kudos for the 'not bad old boy, good orchestrator'.  Your standards are very high, aren't they?   

[csharp_minor]

Ok Ok, so this one is actually good, who did it by the way, sounds like its progressive trance . Not too sure if I class the Prodigy one as a remix as it mearly uses samples, not to my taste that one, I love their one called 'Charlie' I think its a drum and bass remix  .

This is the one that got me into ( kind of ) listening to classical music. William Orbit is cool . Haven't heard this for ages!

So if a remix is done well its ok , but it will never be better then the original classical piece I think.

[indutrial]

I just know the Sweeney Todd soundtrack after the blockbuster film recently and I was quite surprised that the music was as good as it was. Haven´t heard anything else except I know he wrote the lyrics for West Side story which is a great musical.

Sondheim is pretty *** brilliant. Have you ever heard/seen Company or Gypsy. I'm not a big musical fan, but his work is definitely not something that anyone should thumb their nose at.

I will say that Dream Theater being touted as "great modern songwriters" is absolutely ludicrous. Let's get it straight...They're a bunch of talented Berklee grads who play with tons of chops and no soul whatsoever...the *** Lang-Langs of the rock scene. Their songs are exceedingly safe and formulaic, at least whenever they decide to stop wanking their dicks on their instruments long enough for James Labrie to wank his dick of a voice. I refuse to see any semblence of continuum from songs like Strawberry Fields Forever to a flabby turkey like "Metropolis Part 1: Rest Stop on the Pretentiousness Superhighway."

[ctrastevere]

I will say that Dream Theater being touted as "great modern songwriters" is absolutely ludicrous. Let's get it straight...They're a bunch of talented Berklee grads who play with tons of chops and no soul whatsoever...

First of all, none of them were Berklee grads (they dropped out), and neither the keyboardist nor the singer went to Berklee at all. Furthermore, I can't understand how you could listen to "Disappear," which I included above, or the gorgeous guitar solos in "The Spirit Carries On" or "Octavarium" and think that they play with "no soul whatsoever."

Their songs are exceedingly safe and formulaic, at least whenever they decide to stop wanking their dicks on their instruments long enough for James Labrie to wank his dick of a voice.

Well, ignoring the tasteless remark in the latter half of this sentence, would you mind providing me with the name a band whose songs are not "safe and formulaic" in comparison to Dream Theater's?

[thierry13]

Music that shouldn't exist? One word : Jazz.

[ctrastevere]

Music that shouldn't exist? One word : Jazz.

The title of the thread is "Pieces that shouldn't have been composed?".

[thierry13]

The title of the thread is "Pieces that shouldn't have been composed?".

Well the jazz genre contains many "pieces" that are "composed", but I put it this way since they are un-"composed" "pieces" that shouldn't have been composed either. 

[mikey6]

Music that shouldn't exist? One word : Jazz.

So you could also do without the majority of Ravel, some Debussy, Copland, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and undoubtedly others?

[indutrial]

So you could also do without the majority of Ravel, some Debussy, Copland, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and undoubtedly others?

Don't even bother with Thierry; he's a smug little b*tch who hates jazz musicians for reasons that can't possibly be explained with rationality or good sense. He's likely a f**king closet racist also, since he's willing to completely discount jazz's harmonic innovations and cultural importance (more akin to 'It's only good if some European white guy scrawled it on a piece of manuscript paper.'). Don't waste your breath.

As for bands that don't do things in the safe and formulaic way Dream Theater does, have we forgotten acts like the Beatles, Queen, Yes, Billy Joel, Elton John, maybe Radiohead, Soundgarden, and more recently Dillinger Escape Plan, SiKth, and loads of other underground acts who don't get their balls fondled as much as prog metal acts. To me, Dream Theater plays very well, but their compositions and, worse yet, their lyrics, just don't sparkle with any originality or semblance of risk-taking. They've found a creative comfort zone and they're guilty of wallowing in it, instead of trying to be expansive, or as the case may be, 'progressive'. They draw way too blatently off of other bands' styles, ranging from Queenscryche to Tool to Metallica to Pink Floyd. They know that their fans are dedicated enough to keep buying their albums as long as they have the stock Dream Theater staples (double-bass runs, rip-roaring solos, 10 minute track lengths, cheesy artwork) and frankly, it's become BORING and shallow.

Rock music is certainly not something I've ever discounted, but bands like Dream Theater, Dragon Force, and Symphony X show me just how bad things can get if a bunch of people never learn to listen to other kinds of music, i.e. experience that helps one return to rock music with a perspective based on expectations beyond the gaudy excess and hollow content of stadium-tested garbage.

[thierry13]

Rock music is certainly not something I've ever discounted, but bands like Dream Theater, Dragon Force, and Symphony X show me just how bad things can get if a bunch of people never learn to listen to other kinds of music, i.e. experience that helps one return to rock music with a perspective based on expectations beyond the gaudy excess and hollow content of stadium-tested garbage.

Dream theater dragon force and symphony X are amazing. Quality is something that has much more priority than originality. The only thing jazz has is being original, quality = zero. So now you do not even defend the "openness" to all music, you simply like jazz and dislike other (much better) genres. I can't see how the reason you don't like me does not apply to you also. You just like jazz, and can't admit it's musical inferiority. It is originality and innovation you want? There you go : https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19009.msg205393.html#msg205393 But still, the quality of this bull crap is MUCH better than jazz. And it is MUCH more original and MUCH more innovative too 

[nearenough]

4'33" shouldn't have been written? Au contraire. mon chere, it's quite catchy; just yesterday I caught myself humming it. No. It is essential repertoire.

[indutrial]

Dream theater dragon force and symphony X are amazing. Quality is something that has much more priority than originality. The only thing jazz has is being original, quality = zero. So now you do not even defend the "openness" to all music, you simply like jazz and dislike other (much better) genres. I can't see how the reason you don't like me does not apply to you also. You just like jazz, and can't admit it's musical inferiority. It is originality and innovation you want? There you go :

Spare me your pathetic and desperate attempt to turn this argument on its head. You of all posters being an ardent supporter of overrated prog metal bands is just about as telling as anything can be. I've met more than enough washed-up lame-ass whitebread musicians who sit around putting "broad-stroke" virtuosos up on pedestals and spitting venom at things that they deem inferior (which is usually every genre that is not as screamingly white and serious as power metal, prog metal, and the most conservative avenues of classical music). I never said I wholeheartedly disapproved of prog-metal, but to declare genres like jazz and pop inferior to genre-marketed s**t like Pain of Salvation and Symphony X is complete tunnel vision that can only result from (a.) never actually observing the music world as a whole or (b.) not having a f**king clue.

Even amongst true classical musicians (i.e. people who actually perform, record and study composers and their works as opposed to those like yourself who wear the genre as a badge of self-gratifying egotism), I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of them wouldn't see prog-metal music as adding anything to world of music as a whole. Jazz at least  introduced new harmonies and rhythms to the entire music world, and effectively upgraded the American folk tradition to include a more inclusive musical pallette. Plenty of composers who are incredibly talented recognized this and accorded it the proper respect (Gershwin, Carter, Tansman, Bolcom, and hundreds and hundreds of others). Prog metal by-and-large adds absolutely nothing to the development of music as a whole. It's sheer self-satisfied indulgence that is often more in line with Richard Kastle than most classical figures that are worthy of respect. In fact, most of the musicians who hock that genre are bass-ackwards in their approaches to things like theory and harmony, dragging the aesthetical values back in time and misinterpreting everything about true geniuses like Bach, Beethoven, and Paganini in ways that are downright frightening. It's usually all about virtuosity-this and virtuosity-that and the music plays it's own listeners like complete fools by giving them hackneyed garbage that accords them no credit as intelligent listeners.

Do us all a favor and stop demeaning classical music with your short-sighted and half-developed tastes and attitudes. Stow away your immature blanket statements about 'quality' and 'innovation' until you actually know what the hell you're talking about.

[thierry13]

Spare me your pathetic and desperate attempt to turn this argument on its head. You of all posters being an ardent supporter of overrated prog metal bands is just about as telling as anything can be. I've met more than enough washed-up lame-ass whitebread musicians who sit around putting "broad-stroke" virtuosos up on pedestals and spitting venom at things that they deem inferior (which is usually every genre that is not as screamingly white and serious as power metal, prog metal, and the most conservative avenues of classical music). I never said I wholeheartedly disapproved of prog-metal, but to declare genres like jazz and pop inferior to genre-marketed s**t like Pain of Salvation and Symphony X is complete tunnel vision that can only result from (a.) never actually observing the music world as a whole or (b.) not having a f**king clue.

Even amongst true classical musicians (i.e. people who actually perform, record and study composers and their works as opposed to those like yourself who wear the genre as a badge of self-gratifying egotism), I'd be willing to bet that nearly 100% of them wouldn't see prog-metal music as adding anything to world of music as a whole. Jazz at least  introduced new harmonies and rhythms to the entire music world, and effectively upgraded the American folk tradition to include a more inclusive musical pallette. Plenty of composers who are incredibly talented recognized this and accorded it the proper respect (Gershwin, Carter, Tansman, Bolcom, and hundreds and hundreds of others). Prog metal by-and-large adds absolutely nothing to the development of music as a whole. It's sheer self-satisfied indulgence that is often more in line with Richard Kastle than most classical figures that are worthy of respect. In fact, most of the musicians who hock that genre are bass-ackwards in their approaches to things like theory and harmony, dragging the aesthetical values back in time and misinterpreting everything about true geniuses like Bach, Beethoven, and Paganini in ways that are downright frightening. It's usually all about virtuosity-this and virtuosity-that and the music plays it's own listeners like complete fools by giving them hackneyed garbage that accords them no credit as intelligent listeners.

Do us all a favor and stop demeaning classical music with your short-sighted and half-developed tastes and attitudes. Stow away your immature blanket statements about 'quality' and 'innovation' until you actually know what the hell you're talking about.

So now what you're saying is that you're black, and you want the music of your people (or your people itself) to not be deemed as inferior (wich it is)? Ho and by the way, yes I am a serious classical musician, and I do perform and study composers and their works  . But nice try on trying to bring me down to your level, it simply isn't true. Yes, jazz influenced the modern composers when they first heard it, and it influenced certain of their works that's true, but in those cases, the works are far from being the greatest masterpieces of those composers. And even in those works, I don't think the jazzy side of them makes them crappy, since they still stay good and serious compositions and have other elements to contrast with their cheesy harmony, compared to jazz wich is only ... well, you know, jazz. I'm not putting symphony X or dream theater on a pedestal or whatever, they're nothing compared to great classical performers, but they still are much better than jazz, and I actually enjoy some of their music. As for the lyrics ... who cares? I never pay attention anyway and prefer instrumental music when it comes to these bands. Ho and there are great black musicians ... like andre watts. Ho yeah and this summer I'll be studying in a camp and I might be there at the same week that oliver jones will be doing masterclasses, exceptionally he will be the first jazz pianist on this camp but whatever, my teacher is there at the same time so it might be funny. You see I'm not totally close-minded, I might even attend his masterclasses, I just think the genre stinks in general.

[Petter]

Ho yeah and this summer I'll be studying in a camp and I might be there at the same week that oliver jones will be doing masterclasses, exceptionally he will be the first jazz pianist on this camp but whatever, my teacher is there at the same time so it might be funny. You see I'm not totally close-minded, I might even attend his masterclasses, I just think the genre stinks in general.

Keep your rifle loaded just in case he´s black and you can get a clean shot.

[thierry13]

Keep your rifle loaded just in case he´s black and you can get a clean shot.

He IS black. I do not hate black people or am not racist in any way tough. And I do not associate jazz with black people either.

[indutrial]

Oliver jones will be doing masterclasses, exceptionally he will be the first jazz pianist on this camp but whatever, my teacher is there at the same time so it might be funny. You see I'm not totally close-minded, I might even attend his masterclasses, I just think the genre stinks in general.

Oh that's good. You and your teacher (who, if he helped make you as stupid as you are, must be a real winner) can sit there snorting to each other the whole time while other students actually try to learn. I hope you have the balls to tell Oliver Jones how 'inferior' his music is in front of everybody.

I'm not black, by the way. I just can't stand how predictably white and provincial you are.

[thierry13]

Oh that's good. You and your teacher (who, if he helped make you as stupid as you are, must be a real winner) can sit there snorting to each other the whole time while other students actually try to learn. I hope you have the balls to tell Oliver Jones how 'inferior' his music is in front of everybody.

I'm not black, by the way. I just can't stand how predictably white and provincial you are.

No, I think my teacher enjoys jazz, and I don't think he'll sit in the masterclasses, since he'll be giving some. There's no problem in enjoying inferior music, I myself do, it simply *IS* inferior. And I call major BS to the fact that you are white. The way you talk about white people is simply unhealthy. If there is something provincial, it certainly is jazz music/ians. Ho and no I would not just go and tell him his music is inferior. Why would I do? Would you walk to everybody ugly you see to tell them they are? That's nonsense.

[nightlordq]

Bartok's pieces are an absolute piece of...........(not going to mention)
Really, their totally boring and lacks bounciness.

[tds]

Bartok's pieces are an absolute piece of...........(not going to mention)
Really, their totally boring and lacks bounciness.

lol

[healdie]

Chopin---Mazurkas Wagner---anything

kitty on the keys

Wagner!!!! music would sound very different today without him I can see why you might not like him but without him there would be no Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Berg, Shostakovich, R.Strauss

The history of music would not be complete without his influence so I have to disagree with that, this is not a thread about composers you don't like

[indutrial]

No, I think my teacher enjoys jazz, and I don't think he'll sit in the masterclasses, since he'll be giving some. There's no problem in enjoying inferior music, I myself do, it simply *IS* inferior. And I call major BS to the fact that you are white. The way you talk about white people is simply unhealthy. If there is something provincial, it certainly is jazz music/ians. Ho and no I would not just go and tell him his music is inferior. Why would I do? Would you walk to everybody ugly you see to tell them they are? That's nonsense.

I am as white as the sky is blue and that nothing about being white has ever made me think that it's unhealthy to project criticism towards people who make my own race seem stupid and chauvinistic.

Your insistence on requiring superiority and inferiority in contextualizing the way you feel about music bespeaks someone who's not mature enough to act like a true musician. Of course, it's not necessary for every musician to dabble in every genre and style of music as a whole, but you seem far too concerned with building up the ramparts and indoctrinating others with your own foul agenda. I dread the idea that you actually might teach piano students with the same pretentious attitude that informs your own 'musicianship', but I also imagine that you're a lot more waif-like in real life, just like you'll be at the jazz workshop, when all your brash courage about jazz being inferior evaporates.