KAWAI, YAMAHA OR BOSTON?

[athenaeum]

Hi everyone!
I'd appreciate any comments - advices on a mid-grand piano purchase. I can afford no more than 17000EUROS. I live in a small island of the Mediterranean Sea.
Thanks!!

[amelialw]

The Kawai RX-2 is a nice grand. My school just recently changed quite alot of the Yamaha Grands to Kawai Grand

I used to own a K.Kawai KG-2E in canada, not a brand new one though, but I was happy with it. I now own a Boston GP-178 and I love it alot!

[aslanov]

kawai. i think kawai has fantastic grands for their price range. i remember in a piano store trying out a 70K Fazioli, and a 50K Shigeru Kawai and the sound/touch/material quality difference between the two was immense, the kawai being better, and muuchhh cheaper. i'd definitely compare the kawai and yamaha, but my instincts tell me u'll like the kawai better. boston is just an overpriced kawai. they are made in the same factory, but the boston has a steinway label on it. from a kawai factory representative i was told that both most kawai and equal in level boston are made essentially in the same way, but the boston has a markup for its steinway label. in fairness he was talking about uprights, but i think the markup is reason enough not to go with a boston seeing as how your bound by a budget.

[gerryjay]

dear athenaeum:
please, notice that: 1) although i have a clavinova, i dislike the yamaha grands a lot (quite controversial of mine, i know... ); 2) i never did actually play on a kawai grand; 3) i have an unconditional love for steinway pianos.

that considered, you'll not be surprised if i tell you to buy a boston. 

best!

[athenaeum]

Thank you all for giving useful directions!!

[pianisten1989]

I've heard that the Kawaii is a very good grand, compared to its price... So I would go for the Kawi

[richard black]

Of current instruments I've seen and played - which is a lot of all three makes - definitely a Kawai. They are simply better made. But don't overlook European makes, for example Petrof and Estonia, which also seem to be making some very good affordable instruments.

[amelialw]

kawai. i think kawai has fantastic grands for their price range. i remember in a piano store trying out a 70K Fazioli, and a 50K Shigeru Kawai and the sound/touch/material quality difference between the two was immense, the kawai being better, and muuchhh cheaper. i'd definitely compare the kawai and yamaha, but my instincts tell me u'll like the kawai better. boston is just an overpriced kawai. they are made in the same factory, but the boston has a steinway label on it. from a kawai factory representative i was told that both most kawai and equal in level boston are made essentially in the same way, but the boston has a markup for its steinway label. in fairness he was talking about uprights, but i think the markup is reason enough not to go with a boston seeing as how your bound by a budget.

I'm sorry, but having owned both of these pianos I will have to say that it is not true at all.

Yes, Bostons are made by Kawai but the 2 pianos are very different (i have to emphazsize VERY). The sound of a Boston is mellow and a Kawai sounds bright comparatively. The Shigure Kawai is a very high end piano and there is again a big difference between a Shigure and a Kawai. I've played enough of these 3 pianos, as well as Yamahas and Petrofs to know the difference. I practice on a K.Kawai RX-2 and sometimes a 18 yr old steinway at school.

To be fair, we can't tell u what to purchase. You have to try these pianos out for yourself. Personally I like the Boston better, I love the warm sound.

[richard black]

The sound of a Boston is mellow and a Kawai sounds bright comparatively.

This simply isn't true and is in fact a useless generalisation. Piano of practically _all_ makes are voiced differently when they leave the factory and can in any case be revoiced quite significantly before or after purchase. The brightness or mellowness of a new piano is the _last_ thing you should base a buying decision on.

[aslanov]

I'm sorry, but having owned both of these pianos I will have to say that it is not true at all.

Yes, Bostons are made by Kawai but the 2 pianos are very different (i have to emphazsize VERY). The sound of a Boston is mellow and a Kawai sounds bright comparatively. The Shigure Kawai is a very high end piano and there is again a big difference between a Shigure and a Kawai. I've played enough of these 3 pianos, as well as Yamahas and Petrofs to know the difference. I practice on a K.Kawai RX-2 and sometimes a 18 yr old steinway at school.

To be fair, we can't tell u what to purchase. You have to try these pianos out for yourself. Personally I like the Boston better, I love the warm sound.

i mentioned that i only new this to be true among most of the uprights. kawai makes better uprights for the same price as boston and i dare say even essex simply because of the steinway label they have.
i said nothing of the grands, and either way, im 100% sure that the same quality piano (between kawai vs boston/essex) the kawai would be cheaper for the same reasons. and this warmness you speak of which all the boston and essex and many kawai's i can only compare to a completely DULL and nonvibrant sound, which is why i asked to the tuner to make some adjustments to my piano when i bought it.

[johnswanson]

After wording in a musical instrument store for years, I would like to give my answer as:

Kawai is the best, for your budget (17k euros) you can get the best value from it.

Then my second choice would be Yamaha Clavinova. Yamaha is kinda flexible. When you don't have a perticular choice, go with Yamaha and you won't get wrong.

For Steinway, I'll always try to go its highest line, in this sense, Boston is not your best choice.

--------------------
Enjoy Keyboard. Enjoy Life!
https://www.yamahadigitalpianoreview.com

[pianoman78]

boston is just an overpriced kawai. they are made in the same factory, but the boston has a steinway label on it. from a kawai factory representative i was told that both most kawai and equal in level boston are made essentially in the same way, but the boston has a markup for its steinway label. in fairness he was talking about uprights, but i think the markup is reason enough not to go with a boston seeing as how your bound by a budget.
[/quote]

You apparently do not know anything about the Boston piano line. It is completely different from the Kawaii. In fact, nothing is the same on either one.  Two completely different pianos.  And the whole " marked up for its Steinway label" just infuriates me.  You make it sound like Steinways are expensive because of the name.  Seriously?  You think that over 140 schools made that big of an investment because of a name? Over 1600 NON PAID artist choose it because of a name?  Boston has one of the best mellow sounds around.  They are a great buy for any level pianist.  No piano can touch the investment of purchasing a Boston either.  Just saying. 

[49410enrique]

boston is just an overpriced kawai. they are made in the same factory, but the boston has a steinway label on it. from a kawai factory representative i was told that both most kawai and equal in level boston are made essentially in the same way, but the boston has a markup for its steinway label. in fairness he was talking about uprights, but i think the markup is reason enough not to go with a boston seeing as how your bound by a budget.


You apparently do not know anything about the Boston piano line. It is completely different from the Kawaii. In fact, nothing is the same on either one.  Two completely different pianos.  And the whole " marked up for its Steinway label" just infuriates me.  You make it sound like Steinways are expensive because of the name.  Seriously?  You think that over 140 schools made that big of an investment because of a name? Over 1600 NON PAID artist choose it because of a name?  Boston has one of the best mellow sounds around.  They are a great buy for any level pianist.  No piano can touch the investment of purchasing a Boston either.  Just saying.  

and apparently do not know anything about how silly it is to call out a 3+ or so year old post. and to what end? why defend the brand and bash the quoted poster with such apparent fervor?

also , you seem to lack an even superficial understanding of Asian culture and the immense weight/importance placed on honor and the family name. without getting into a pissing match over instrument specifics, just on the principle alone that such a proud family with the reputation  around the name kawai, to somehow think that they would realistically agree to and set out to put out a superior product than the one they put their name on? think about that for a sec.

it maybe an almost comparable instrument (perhaps just based on basic probability and the huge number of instruments manufactured, an example here or there might to someone seem better but not objectively and consistenlty), but Kawai build  a flat out better one (across the board?) and dishonor their name/family like that? not likely.

also, you said something about the investment of purchasing a Boston....sorry pianos are not an investment. they are a liability. when they begin consistently paying dividends or when pension funds can buy piano mutual funds and when people generate passive income streams from them? then we can call them an investment. i love pianos. one of the  best things i think a pianist could ever spend money on.

by the way. welcome to the board. normally leave silly things like uneccessary bumps alone. but you may very well be a nice and knowledgeable persona and many could/would benefit from your presence here. but your first post just made you seem like a big butt head.

[richard black]

A Boston is neither a Kawai nor a Steinway, and I have long suspected that that is its problem. Since neither make is obviously responsible for it, quality control is a problem. Of the very large number of pianos I play in a year, Boston is the one most often in lamentable condition for its age. Screws working loose after a few months of use is just one of the common problems. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole, if it was my own money speaking.

[deighve]

Kawai is for weak hands and fingers. Yamaha is for strong fingers and hands. Audition 5 to ten Yamaha grands and chose the one with the sound and key-feel that you like.

[richard black]

The above is just another of the generalisations that help no one. I can't pretend to have measured the key weight on every Kawai and every Yamaha I've ever played, but I've certainly played Yamahas with a very light action and one or two Kawais with memorably heavy action. 'Heavy' has two components to it (weight and inertia), and both can be varied, to some extent, on any piano. And across the vast majority of pianos made in the last 100 or so years, the variation is actually rather small, certainly not enough to justify one brand solely on the basis of benefitting 'weak' fingers.

[asuhayda]

I have a Boston GP-178PE.  It is absolutely phenomenal.  I couldn't be happier with it.  Between the Kawai RX-2 and the Boston... not a huge difference.  The action was probably a little lighter and quicker on the Kawai, but I found the sound to be better with the Boston.  The upper register is sparkly and the Bass register is full and rich.  You honestly can't go wrong with either one.  If 17K is your limit.. you might want to go with the Kawai.  The Boston is more expensive by about 6K or so.  And it's really only because it's designed by Steinway.

Honestly, it was a toss up between the Kawai and the Boston for me. But, they were both better than the Yamaha. I bought the Boston because I would like to trade up to a Steinway Model O in a few years.  You'll love what ever you get at this price point. Good Luck!

[crownrib]

Someone wrote somewhere here about a Kawii grand with replaced hammers by Abel making the piano play and sound phenomenal.  I'd love to try that out and know what was done; it sounds like a winning combo.

[john90]

Hi everyone!
I'd appreciate any comments - advices on a mid-grand piano purchase. I can afford no more than 17000EUROS. I live in a small island of the Mediterranean Sea.
Thanks!!

That is a lot of money given the state of the world economy in general, and the resale value of pianos. If you are not that certain, I wouldn't spend.

I would not get hung up on brand. I would look to spend 5 to 6K euros on a used piano. There might be a stunning Bechstein with new strings and felts for 5k. Used grands are often cheaper than uprights. Up to 12k on a used Steinway (because it sells well if you buy well). Try and play everything on the island, for sale and not for sale. Just go on touch and sound. If the touch and sound is superb, it will be hard to be disappointed. Just keep going. Take months over it. Read newspapers, estate sales. If all that fails, think about a Yamaha, less than 10 years old or new. The other two brands you mention are perhaps less common, and if the ones you try don't have fantastic touch and sound, then you might consider the Yamaha, common, predictable & should be good. But don't rush. It is not a race, and you can learn a lot trying different instruments, critically, as a genuine buyer. Make the experience last.