Charles Wuorinen

[indutrial]

I was wondering if anyone else here enjoyed this composer and his many interesting works for piano, etc.... I developed a strong interest in his composing language after hearing the Rascher quartet play his incredible Saxophone Quartet (1992). As far as piano, he's composed quite a few pieces, including four sonatas, four concertos, a fantasy for piano/orchestra titled 'Time Regained', and numerous chamber pieces that feature the instrument. Most recently, I saw Peter Serkin and the Brentano Quartet play his Second Piano Quintet (2008) and it turned out being one of the most entrancing new pieces I've ever seen. Not much of his piano work is up on Youtube, but the excellent user Scriabinwasmydad posted his 2nd sonata. Here is the final section of the piece:

As a question to anyone who's looked through Mr. Wuorinen's scores, can somebody provide a little explanation or background about the shapes that appear here and there? Over certain measures, Wuorinen will sometimes write a specific order of triangles and 3-sided boxes in parentheses. I'm assuming that it is supposed to be a sort of counting aid that explains the accenting of the time signature (and he uses a LOT of odd time signatures), but that's just my guess. Is this convention used in any other composers' scores?

I'm curious to know what people think of this guy's ever-increasing body of works. My main focus of interest is on his chamber work, but I'd like to find out more about his piano works. I hope that, in the next few years, someone decides to re-explore his two early concertos. The second is written for 'amplified piano', much like his concerto for cello entitled 'Five', in which the cello part is amplified.

[general disarray]

I can't enlighten you on any aspect of Wuorinen's work, I'm afraid.  This is, in fact, my first listening to anything of his output.  I'm intrigued, sometimes mesmerized, but a little bit adrift as to what aspect of the notes I should most particularly be attuned to.  Superficially, the language seems to be based on serial technique.  How tightly?  How loosely?  What should my ear search for in the way of organization?  I enjoy much of what I hear in this piece, but my attention drifts because I can't find any, well, audible anchor, such as form, recognizable tonal organization or motivic development.

I realize this is only a portion of the piece, so perhaps I'm being unfair to both me and the composer.

At any rate, this is not written in criticism of the composer.  I'm the ignoramus.  I'm asking how would you educate someone like to me to appreciate this man's work?  What are his compositional aims here?

Thanks for any response . . .  and for your post of this excerpt.   

[retrouvailles]

I would say that anyone just getting into Wuorinen should listen his piano piece The Blue Bamboula. It is not as tough a nut to crack as his a lot of his other works, and has a nice catchy melody in it. I had the pleasure of seeing Ursula Oppens perform it (among other great pieces) and it made quite an impression on me. I regret that I am not familiar with much of Wuorinen's music other than that and a few chamber works. I have heard the 3rd piano concerto, but did not care for it very much. Same goes for many of his other orchestral works. I like the chamber music a bit more though.

[indutrial]

At any rate, this is not written in criticism of the composer.  I'm the ignoramus.  I'm asking how would you educate someone like to me to appreciate this man's work?  What are his compositional aims here?

Thanks for any response . . .  and for your post of this excerpt.   

I've never seen the score for this piece, so I can't really say if it's decidedly serial or partially serial. Wuorinen is a definite subscriber to serial methods, having referred to Schoenberg's influence as someone from whom he drew "crucial nurture" in the development of his own style. Wuorinen is also heavily interested in things like fractal geometry and mathematically-based ideas pervade his compositions. What I enjoy is the way he synthesizes all of that intellectual material into pieces that pack a lot of dramatic punch. Beyond that, Wuorinen was a concert pianist (his first two concertos were written for himself...I think), so his music doesn't hesitate to embrace the strongest benefits of virtuosity.

I don't know what his motivations are behind the second sonata, but it might be interesting to read some of his notes about the first string quartet, which our delightful friend PokeythePenguin has on his Youtube playlist:

This may offer some insight to his methodologies.

From a 2008 Program written for one of Wuorinen's 70th B'Day shows:

'The Quartet reflects fundamental concerns I had at the time with questions of large-scale form, in particular the issue of an appropriately developmental - or "directed" - structure suited to a non-tonal environment. I had already long before 1970 become impatient with the directionlessness of much new music, and wanted to establish formal procedures that would allow local flexibility while solidly undergirding a musical progress analogous to the very powerfully directed structures of tonality.

My solution, too technical to detail here [...sh*t - Indutrial], involves the nesting of self-similar musical shapes on several scales of size. This is a universal feature of music, but more significantly, of the natural world itself. Employing formal and expressive methods based on this principle, then, enabled me to retain a kind of flexibility and spontaneity in the small while still clearly directing the composition toward its final goal in the last measures.

As a result of these concerns the piece emerges as a single continuity, even though it is divided into three movements. These movements have somewhat distinct characters, and are in principle similar to a traditional fast-slow-fast scheme. But equally important, and equally traditional, is the fact that each of the four instruments is an independent contrapuntal strand - and, indeed, each instrument has its own individuated version of the large formal structure I have described, and its own harmonic material. From an expressive point of view, however, the work forms a unitary utterance, for no matter how complex the detail, if music in the most general sense doesn't finally converge on a single overarching impulse, its effect will not be strong.'

This, at the very least, is indicative of ways Wuorinen has been thinking throughout his composing career.

[general disarray]

Thanks!  Another thing I admire about the Wuorinen Second Sonata you posted is the polished and tonally beautiful playing.  Is the composer the pianist?

I'm going to check Wuorinen out.  He's a find.  Again, I'm in your debt.

I already owe you one for Feinberg!

[indutrial]

Thanks!  Another thing I admire about the Wuorinen Second Sonata you posted is the polished and tonally beautiful playing.  Is the composer the pianist?

I'm going to check Wuorinen out.  He's a find.  Again, I'm in your debt.

I already owe you one for Feinberg!

Glad you're enjoying both of these excellent composers.

I don't know for sure, but the Wuorinen performance is probably taken from the following recording by pianist Jeffery Swann:
https://www.classicsonline.com/catalogue/product.aspx?pid=532901

Here's a recent article talking about Wuorinen's 'Time Regained', his most recent work for piano/orchestra. The pianist is Peter Serkin, the same who played in the piano quintet I mentioned. I feel like an idiot for missing this performance, but the tickets were a bit above my price range:

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/27/arts/music/27met.html?ref=arts

[thalbergmad]

This is pretty much new ground for me.

There is something captivating about that String Quartet. Pretty hypnotising, as i felt i wanted to stop listening to it, but could not.

Weird but fascinating.

Thal

[ryguillian]

I wish I could provide more detailed input, but I don't know much about Wuorinen. I read his book Simple Composition and it was quite all right. He is, curiously, writing an opera based on Brokeback Mountain... seems like a truly odd mix of music & content.

Best,

Ryan

[retrouvailles]

He is, curiously, writing an opera based on Brokeback Mountain... seems like a truly odd mix of music & content.

Due for production by the Met in 2013. I know I'll be tuning in to their broadcast to hear it.

[indutrial]

This is pretty much new ground for me.

There is something captivating about that String Quartet. Pretty hypnotising, as i felt i wanted to stop listening to it, but could not.

Weird but fascinating.

Thal

Wuorinen's first quartet is definitely a favorite of mine amongst many other loaded pieces from the past 75 years. Part of my preference is based on the fact that the piece has a discernible progression and, despite intense amounts of dissonant exploration from bar to bar, keeps me (gasp!) entertained and curious.