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Brahms cadenza for Bach D minor concerto (Read 4860 times)

Offline soderlund

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Brahms cadenza for Bach D minor concerto
« on: February 19, 2009, 08:36:56 PM »
Okay, I am going to ask a question that might seem very stupid, and I would appreciate to not be bullied for this xD
I am working on Bach's d minor concerto, only first movement for far, and I would like to play Brahms cadenza. The problem is, that I don't know exactly where to put it. Does it go for the third movement, or do you place it in the first? I just don't see any place where you should insert a cadenza without removing some of Bach's own.
If anyone has played it I would appreciate if you could tell me how you did it.

Offline anda

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Re: Brahms cadenza for Bach D minor concerto
«Reply #1 on: February 28, 2009, 08:05:08 AM »
I didn't play a cadenza (other than the mini-one written) - but if you want to play one, it's place is on the fermata marking (at ~ 3/4, you have a fermata on a c# diminished). One word about Brahms' cadenzas (I'm sorry, but I have to say this): all his cadenzas are wonderful pieces of Brahms music. They are great, but have nothing to do with the work they should be a part of - so, as much as I love Brahms, I wouldn't play his cadenzas, and I would advice anyone against playing them.

best luck, you chose a wonderful concerto

Offline jory

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Re: Brahms cadenza for Bach D minor concerto
«Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 03:28:49 AM »
This is very late, but I came across your question (where does Brahms' cadenza for Bach's d minor concerto go) by chance during a search, and saw the highly incorrect answer by Anda. As you would see if you read the cadenza all the way through, the last several measures are a sort of development of 3rd movement material. In any event, at the end of the third movement, just before the final return to the theme, you will see a r.h. trill on "a." You would start Brahms' cadenza (beginning "g, f, e, d, etc) as a continuation of that trill. At the end of Brahms' cadenza, he leaves you comfortably to finish Bach's cadence formula (immediately following the trill I mentioned). Is that clear? Write me at jory@joryvinikour.com if any questions (I am a harpsichordist much more than a pianist, but still might have advice for you).

All best, and good studies,
Jory

PS You ask not to be bullied! I was much more tempted to bully Anda for giving you a wrong answer!!!

Offline ramseytheii

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Re: Brahms cadenza for Bach D minor concerto
«Reply #3 on: January 25, 2010, 12:26:55 AM »
This is very late, but I came across your question (where does Brahms' cadenza for Bach's d minor concerto go) by chance during a search, and saw the highly incorrect answer by Anda. As you would see if you read the cadenza all the way through, the last several measures are a sort of development of 3rd movement material. In any event, at the end of the third movement, just before the final return to the theme, you will see a r.h. trill on "a." You would start Brahms' cadenza (beginning "g, f, e, d, etc) as a continuation of that trill. At the end of Brahms' cadenza, he leaves you comfortably to finish Bach's cadence formula (immediately following the trill I mentioned). Is that clear? Write me at jory@joryvinikour.com if any questions (I am a harpsichordist much more than a pianist, but still might have advice for you).

All best, and good studies,
Jory

PS You ask not to be bullied! I was much more tempted to bully Anda for giving you a wrong answer!!!

Hi Jory.  I have a recording of you playing harpsichord/fortepiano at the home of my friends Phil C. and David P.  It's wonderful!  Are you planning to come back anytime.

Walter Ramsey