What do you guys think of this phrasing?

[tyler_johnson]

I'm learning the Chopin Scherzo no. 1 and right after the initial 2 runs, there's a right hand run going down, and it's in 3/4 but sounds much better to me in 4/4.

I exported some Sibelius audio to better explain what i'm talking about.  The first few seconds of the audio clip is the original, with the 3/4 phrasing, and the 2nd I put some 4/4 style in there just to illustrate my point.

Have a listen:

www.tyler-johnson.net/Scherzo.mp3

What do you guys think?  I like it better with the 4/4 sound, of course I'll play the original notes I won't play that polka crap I added, but just to get a feeling for the phrase I put that in there.

I heard Jean-Marc Luisada phrase it like this and it stuck with me ever since.

[birba]

Bizarre!  Sort of neat.

[quantum]

Interesting.  Did Jean-Marc Luisada do the thing with the LH too?


Chopin does twist around the 3/4 in the coda for a couple bars. 

[tyler_johnson]

Yeah, well Jean-Marc just accented every 5th beat instead of 4th like most people do.

He still played what was on the page, that stride stuff in that clip I just did that to emphasize the 4/4 phrasing technique.

Yeah, and at the end, what Chopin does is make it sound like it's in 4/4 by making each bar sound like 1 beat since it's like quarter note = 360 or something.  So it's like 123,123,123,123 but with his phrasing it sounds like 1,2,3,4.

Anyway, I think that's how I'm going to play it, accenting every 5th beat instead of every 4th.  Just to change it up...

[m]

I put some 4/4 style in there just to illustrate... that polka crap I added...

Good you understand yourself what you just did...

Best, M

[tyler_johnson]

Sorry marik I don't get it.  I take it you DON'T like the 4/4 phrasing as opposed to the 3/4?

[m]

I think there is not much to get, esp. considering you yourself admitted that the polka you added was crap...  I have to heartly agree with that part

Best, M

[tyler_johnson]

Ok I don't think I made this clear.

I am NOT playing the polka.  This was to illustrate my phrasing.

I am playing the original notes, AS CHOPIN WROTE.  Of course I won't play that, it was to get the 4/4 style in your head instead of the 3/4 style.

What I am doing is accenting every 5th beat instead of every 4th beat, as clearly stated in my previous reply.

[m]

Ok I don't think I made this clear.

I think your second MIDI recording said it all quite clear...

I am playing the original notes, AS CHOPIN WROTE.  Of course I won't play that, it was to get the 4/4 style in your head instead of the 3/4 style.

What you say is extremely confusing. Listening to your MIDI, the second time you DO NOT play what Chopin wrote, esp. that of L.H.

To reiterate, if you think that Mr. Chopin was an idiot and did not know in what style to write for piano, or did not have a clear idea what he wanted his Scherzo No.1 to sound like, you are deeply wrong.

Best, M

[goldentone]

What do you guys think? 

I think I'll stick with Chopin.

[tyler_johnson]

Ok I give up.  Someone lock this thread.