mozart vs. beethoven

[giannalinda]

hey whos your favorite composer? mozart or beethoven and why?

[communist]

They are not to similar, I would say Beethoven, because I find Mozart's music as a whole to be to unilateral. I prefer Haydn and Clementi over both of them.

[giannalinda]

thanks ya thats why i asked...theyre two different composers...two different types of music...take care.
Abbey

[iroveashe]

Beethoven for me.
Mozart is extremely beautiful, but Beethoven pushed the boundaries like no one. I think (some of) Mozart's music is in fact the most beautiful and pleasant there is, along with some Bach, but to me beauty isn't everything. Most of Mozart's works are joyful, and even in his saddest pieces he was always centered in beauty, I can never sense an inch of sarcasm in his music; but I can in Beethoven. Mozart's music is too perfect you could say, while Beethoven's is more human.

Anyways, I think you should post your own opinion too Abbey ;P

[giannalinda]

as you say irove.
I think Mozarts music is completely different than Beethovens music. Beethoven had a different view of the world probably cause he was deaf and blind in his later years. I think Beethovens music is a lot of the times has a lot of flats and sharps while mozart is kind of in the middle. Like Moonlight sonata second movement (Beethoven), compared to Alla TUrca(Mozart). They are two COMPLETELY different pieces by two COMPLETELy different composers. I am a huge fan of Mozart. I like VIvaldi also though.Take Care
Abbey

[dolly lo]

Yes, their music is completely differente.. But I don't like too much the classicism, I found it too correct, static, rigid (there are exceptions, of course). But Beethoven is passion, his music is force, muscle.. En fin, his romantic part.

[thalbergmad]

Beethoven had a different view of the world probably cause he was deaf and blind in his later years.

Beethoven had a different view of the world when he was blind??

Thal

[giannalinda]

Yes, their music is completely differente.. But I don't like too much the classicism, I found it too correct, static, rigid (there are exceptions, of course). But Beethoven is passion, his music is force, muscle.. En fin, his romantic part.

who doesnt like classicism?

[giannalinda]

Beethoven had a different view of the world when he was blind??

Thal

yeah  o m g you dont know that? of corse he did! wouldnt anyone? if all they can see is darkness? theyd start to see the world differently!

[thalbergmad]

o m g, of corsed i did.

Eye woz onlee jo king.

Thal

[giannalinda]

o m g, of corsed i did.

Eye woz onlee jo king.

Thal

hey lol...and no offense...but...do/did you take spelling in k-college?

[thalbergmad]

I av knot star ted colege yet az i is only 9.

Thal

[dolly lo]

who doesnt like classicism?

Works for piano solo of classicism.. Psé. They don't transmit me very much (generalizing)

[giannalinda]

I av knot star ted colege yet az i is only 9.

Thal

Ya right

[giannalinda]

Works for piano solo of classicism.. Psé. They don't transmit me very much (generalizing)

Whats Pse?

[dolly lo]

Whats Pse?

Hehe, just an interjection.. Mmm.. An expression of half-heartedly, maybe indifference.. Is difficult to explian.

[communist]

Beethoven's music is unfashionable arpeggio based garbage while Mozart's is fruity-tuity unstylistic garbage. Clementi is a ways way over both of them. 

[healdie]

Beethoven's music is unfashionable arpeggio based garbage while Mozart's is fruity-tuity unstylistic garbage. Clementi is a ways way over both of them. 

I'd like to second that and so is Scarlatti

[njalli]

i cant stand when people say that clementy was better then beethoven, sorry folks. + it has been proofed clementi wasnt even a genius. and Beethoven was the first composer to put feelings into music. Hes music is much greater at all way then clementi's just listen to the pathetique, op. 111, and so on. 

[healdie]

i cant stand when people say that clementy was better then beethoven, sorry folks. + it has been proofed clementi wasnt even a genius. and Beethoven was the first composer to put feelings into music. Hes music is much greater at all way then clementi's just listen to the pathetique, op. 111, and so on. 

how can you proove that someone is or isnt a genius? surely it is subjective some people say John cage was genius some call him a joke if you think beethoven is better than Clementi then thats fine but i prefer Clementis piano music over Beethovens

and Beethoven certanly wasn't the first to put feelings into music if you think this then i guess you have never heard of Bach? or heard Mozarts Requiem? or tons of other stuff written before Beethoven

[njalli]

he wasnt. mozart was a genius. he wrote music and he could write a symphonie just after hearing it in hes head. beethoven truly was a genius. he wrote one of the best music ever written... WHEN BEING DEAF :p. if clementi would have gone deaf.. he wouldn been able to do any of those things.

music can be beautifull without having feelings.

the way i define classical and barocce music: Every note is there for a reason. It is most often happy. and is just in that Classical style, that i cant explain. The reason why i say that beethoven was the first to put feelings into hes music is because, he bridged the gap beetween classical and romantism. And Bach never put feelings into hes music. he wrote some beautifull music, but it doesnt have feelings in them.

[healdie]

he wasnt. mozart was a genius. he wrote music and he could write a symphonie just after hearing it in hes head. beethoven truly was a genius. he wrote one of the best music ever written... WHEN BEING DEAF :p. if clementi would have gone deaf.. he wouldn been able to do any of those things.

see my signature ... these are incredible feats and very few people can hit but this in my eyes does not define genius

also barouque music is often not happy quite the contrary opera seria was at its most popular during the barouque period but Clementi was one of the first composers to write music for the forte piano surely that is a sign of genius? and he was a much better pianist than mozart was too

also how can you define the best music ever? surely again this is subjective

[njalli]

there is no way in getting an sure answer:P

ive never liked clementi music.. but im not against it

mozart, is fun but there are things better than it (my opinion)

beethoven, light, heavie, dark, beautifull, angry, happy, sad, music. it has everything

chopin, the most beautifull music in the world

liszt, i cant descripe it

best-o-meter..

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clemnti   mozart               liszt                                beethoven            chopin

[go12_3]

I hardly play any Mozart, so that rules him out of my agenda.  Now Beethoven, he takes some reflection.....his music is difficult and yet fascinating with all those Sonatas he composed.  I sightread all of Book 1 Sonatas, which took a few weeks, with never a dull moment with some *okay* passages and some just *breathtaking*  harmonies and runs.  I did learn  Sonata 10 No.1.  A wonderful piece and I enjoyed it very much. Of course Beethoven does capture my heart and soul with his thunderous and miraculous music. 

best wishes,

go12_3

[anne126]

Mozart was the better composer

but Beethoven's music is better.

[communist]

Would you consider Haydn a genius?

[healdie]

Haydn was definatly an innovator the symphonie and sonata form and string quartets would look very different were it not for him Both Beethoven and Mozart are incredibaly indebbted to him (whether they admitteded it or not)

for me I prefer the music of Brahms and Schumann over chopin and Lizst, i think Chopin wrote some of the most superficial music ever, some of Liszts minatures are very nice

I love Beethovens orchestral writing but his piano music I have never really got on with

Mozart I think was too prolific for his own good, for every great piece by mozart there are 7 or 8 average ones

[iroveashe]

Mozart I think was too prolific for his own good, for every great piece by mozart there are 7 or 8 average ones

That might be true, but the great ones are so perfect they're worth a thousand average pieces.

[anne126]

Would you consider Haydn a genius?

Of course.

So far as "genius" goes.

[njalli]

Mozart was the better composer

but Beethoven's music is better.

mhm

[csharp_minor]

Mozart was the better composer

but Beethoven's music is better.

Interesting comment, I kind of agree to an extent. Mozart was certainly more prolific in his short life but does that make one the better? possibly if you think in terms of quantity . I find Mozart's music sometimes very beautifull but quite a lot of it very predictable to me; wereas some of Beethoven's compositions I didn’t even know he composed some them because they sounded so different from his normal style, and sound so innovative. I love it when composers sometimes break away from their own style and explore new styles. So personally I prefer Beethoven. 

[csharp_minor]

 i think Chopin wrote some of the most superficial music ever,

  What makes you say that? I can see why it may seem superficial; it is used a lot in old films and in adverts or TV programs to portray a sense of romanticism or sentimentality. Maybe thats why you have this view.   

But I really don't think Chopin meant the music to sound so melodramatic on purpose for the sake of it but because he felt that style best summed up what he was trying to say in the music. I find his music incredibly passionate as well as beautifull most of the time.

[njalli]

chopin is the best composer in my opinion. He wrote For example the nocturnes.. wich are really dreamy, but they can be angry too and passionate, the scerzhos are undiscribable. for example the scerzho No. 2 wich is very beautifull, heavy and romantic. The ballades, the number 3 is very beautifull but at the same time, really powerfull. If you look at the sonata in B minor, i have never heard it but my teacher played the last two pages for me in class, and its just magnificcent. If you take a look at the Etudes. For example, the opus 10 no 3, starts really beautifull but it gets so magnifficent, angry, and drammatic. In the Polonaises he can be really dramatic, For example the heroique polonaise.

Chopin was a wonder full composer, in my opinion the 'Mozart' of the romantic era. Hes music is just wonderfull. And there is nothing that can say anything to unproof that.

[csharp_minor]

The ballades, the number 3 is very beautifull but at the same time, really powerfull.

...and there are parts in it for me I find really overwhelmingly passionate, it’s gorgeous  . I am glad to of met another who loves the overlooked 3 ballade, as everyone seems to like number 1 and 4 the most, of course they are great too .

chopin is the best composer in my opinion

I do think he is really up there with the best, but only for solo piano music ( in my opinion ).

   

[njalli]

I do think he is really up there with the best, but only for solo piano music ( in my opinion ).

mhm.. he was the best ( my opinion) piano solo composer

[iroveashe]

I like Chopin too, but I thought this was a Mozart vs. Beethoven thread...

Anyway, to Communist who said Beethoven is all arpeggios I assume you haven't listened much and that you're only referring to piano works; same with njalli saying Bach's music has no feeling, I suppose you've only listened, or are talking about his keyboard works mostly. I wouldn't say Beethoven was the first composer to put feeling into music, I'd say he was the first to push those feelings towards the extremes that haven't been reached before, whilst Bach's and Mozart's genius doesn't live in the revolutionary aspect of their works, but rather in the refinement, purity and beauty of it without getting out of the 'limits' of music at their times.

[communist]

chopin is the best composer in my opinion. He wrote For example the nocturnes.. wich are really dreamy, but they can be angry too and passionate, the scerzhos are undiscribable. for example the scerzho No. 2 wich is very beautifull, heavy and romantic. The ballades, the number 3 is very beautifull but at the same time, really powerfull. If you look at the sonata in B minor, i have never heard it but my teacher played the last two pages for me in class, and its just magnificcent. If you take a look at the Etudes. For example, the opus 10 no 3, starts really beautifull but it gets so magnifficent, angry, and drammatic. In the Polonaises he can be really dramatic, For example the heroique polonaise.

Chopin was a wonder full composer, in my opinion the 'Mozart' of the romantic era. Hes music is just wonderfull. And there is nothing that can say anything to unproof that.

If I am lurking around the forum you should avoid saying things like that. Anyway, the nocturnes are some of the most cheesy things I have ever heard (but I like both op.48). I agree the scherzos are great. The ballades are cheesy (except for the second). The sonatas are also great. The etudes suck (with a few exceptions). But a few of the polonaises are great.

that was just my opinion

But as I see it, he can not be the best because his only good compositions are for solo piano.

[iroveashe]

If I am lurking around the forum you should avoid saying things like that. Anyway, the nocturnes are some of the most cheesy things I have ever heard (but I like both op.48). I agree the scherzos are great. The ballades are cheesy (except for the second). The sonatas are also great. The etudes suck (with a few exceptions). But a few of the polonaises are great.

that was just my opinion

But as I see it, he can not be the best because his only good compositions are for solo piano.

So far your argument is simply "it's so cheesy". I don't think it is any more 'cheesy' than Mozart (in fact I don't think it is cheesy at all) but that doesn't really mean it's bad; how you take that jump from "it's cheesy" to "it's crap" I don't understand, since you've provided no explanation. I agree on Chopin not being THE best, but he's certainly up there pretty close.

[njalli]

If I am lurking around the forum you should avoid saying things like that. Anyway, the nocturnes are some of the most cheesy things I have ever heard (but I like both op.48). I agree the scherzos are great. The ballades are cheesy (except for the second). The sonatas are also great. The etudes suck (with a few exceptions). But a few of the polonaises are great.

that was just my opinion

But as I see it, he can not be the best because his only good compositions are for solo piano.

if im lurking around the forum YOU should avoid say things like that, you can say that 'some etudas are ok and the other ones suck, but that isnt true. know why? because thats youre opinion. the nocturnes arent Cheesy. And i have heard all ballades EXEPT the second one, and i think NONE of them is cheesy, so DONT say things like that because it isnt true tho its your opinion.

[communist]

as I have said "In my opinion". I completely respect you liking him but saying he is the best composer around me is like holding a red cloth in front of a bull.

[healdie]

Chopin was a wonder full composer, in my opinion the 'Mozart' of the romantic era. Hes music is just wonderfull. And there is nothing that can say anything to unproof that.

How can you prove that someone was a "wonderful" composer? that is completley subjective the listener

i am not going to deny CHopin the credit that he is due even though personally i don't like it but i would not say he was one of the best of the romantic era by a long shot. his orchestral writing in his concertos is dreadful, he only wrote piano music which is extremley limited 

[njalli]

How can you prove that someone was a "wonderful" composer? that is completley subjective the listener

i am not going to deny CHopin the credit that he is due even though personally i don't like it but i would not say he was one of the best of the romantic era by a long shot. his orchestral writing in his concertos is dreadful, he only wrote piano music which is extremley limited 

lol, the thing is. Im saying hes wonderfull, and so what? im not saying that hes anyhow better than anyother composer.

[weissenberg2]

Beethoven was the first composer to put feelings into music. Hes music is much greater at all way then clementi's just listen to the pathetique, op. 111, and so on. 

I have to disagree that Beethoven was the first to put feeling into music. Some Scarlatti sonatas (E.G. K.33 and 87) and exploding with emotion and some Haydn sonatas are artificial but most of them have feeling.

A select few Clementi sonatas (E.G. op.25 no.5, op.33 no.3) are as good as most Beethoven sonatas. They are not as good as the last five but they can match most of them.

[matthew from florida]

Mozart or Beethoven? I can't pick! They are tied!

[giannalinda]

Mozart or Beethoven? I can't pick! They are tied!

I agree.

[twiltot]

both have amazing masterpieces...Beethoven brings out the passion in me,makes me think.. I see my life in that sonatas (op.111 mostly)....But Mozart, well you just feel it...