HOw to spell composers name

[giannalinda]

Hi I have seen different spellings of Tchiakovsky's name. Is it spelled Tschiakowsky, or Tchiakovsky or Tsciakowsky? I have seen all different spellings. is one of them wrong or can you spell it any of those ways. Im really confused cause I have been writing my music reports for a College Class and i have spelled it Tchiakovsky, but am i mispelling it? please help me .
Best Wishes
Abbey

[go12_3]

It is spelled,  TCHAIKOVSKY

just watch the A and I,  not the I and the A. 

best wishes,

go12_3

[suntan]

I  saw and i spell it Tschaikowsky 

[communist]

The Russian spelling would be Tschaikowsky

[go12_3]

The Russian spelling would be Tschaikowsky

I looked under the list of composers in Piano Street.  I suppose the "s"  depends upon which country we live in. 

[giannalinda]

im really confused you guys are telling me different things!!!!!! do you spell it tchiakowsky or tchiakovsky

[go12_3]

im really confused you guys are telling me different things!!!!!! do you spell it tchiakowsky or tchiakovsky

Listen,  you need to spell it what your teacher wants it to be......

    TCHAIKOVSKY     GET THE *AI*   though, okay?  Not *IA* 

[thalbergmad]

I think there are about 6 ways of spelling Woelfl.

hal

[ahinton]

I think there are about 6 ways of spelling Woelfl.

hal

Dear hal,

How many ways are there legitimately to spell "halbergmad"?...

Best,

lis(z)tair

[pies]

a

[ahinton]

I think that the further you get from 'Scriabin', the bigger douchebag you become.

I wonder what the composer himself might hae thought about your submission here?...

P.S. Carter's first name has only one T in it.

Whereas, of course, as almost everyone in this world doesn't seem to want to know, it has
T W O Ts - grrrr!

Actually, I don't really care that much how many Ts his names have as much as I care about the music that he has written...

Bestt,

Alisttair Hintton
Curattor / Directtor
Tthe Sorabji Archive

[mephisto]

Hi I have seen different spellings of Tchiakovsky's name. Is it spelled Tschiakowsky, or Tchiakovsky or Tsciakowsky? I have seen all different spellings. is one of them wrong or can you spell it any of those ways. Im really confused cause I have been writing my music reports for a College Class and i have spelled it Tchiakovsky, but am i mispelling it? please help me .
Best Wishes
Abbey

This question is actually impossible to answer. The reason is that the composers name is russian and should be written by a different alphabet than the latin one. These alphabets aren't fully compatible, therefore there is no correct way of writing his name exept for the russian spelling Чайко́вский.

The same applies to arab names as well. Mohammed, Mohammad, Mohamad, Muhammad, Muhamad etc. None are really wrong or correct.

That being said I prefeer Tchaikovsky.

In norwegian we write his name Tsjaikovski.

[retrouvailles]

The Russian spelling would be Tschaikowsky

Wrong. The Russian spelling is Чайко́вский. Everything else is not accurate.

EDIT: Oops, didn't see that Meph said it before I did.

I think there are about 6 ways of spelling Woelfl.

There are only two, I think. Wölfl, which is correct, or Woelfl if you want to avoid the umlaut.

[rachfan]

At least this thread wasn't about Rachmaninov versus Rachmaninoff.   

[giannalinda]

At least this thread wasn't about Rachmaninov versus Rachmaninoff.   

Im confused about that too!!! do you kno it?

[aslanov]

Its typically spelt rachmaninov and rachmaninoff, but again there are many variations, but only correct in the russian spelling.

[gep]

I have an English encyclopedia on music, who spells it Chaikovsky, stating that the intial T isn't necessary for pronounciation. And spells Rakhmaninov, by the way.

No how about Iljitch, Ilyitch, Ilyich, Iljitsch, etctetc?
Or Sergey, Sergei, etc?

 

[concerto_love]

I think they're all same in how to read it  no matter how to spell their name. I usually write down his name as Tchaikovsky. Done. As long as the way to read are same, I think there's no problem then.

[giannalinda]

I have an English encyclopedia on music, who spells it Chaikovsky, stating that the intial T isn't necessary for pronounciation. And spells Rakhmaninov, by the way.

No how about Iljitch, Ilyitch, Ilyich, Iljitsch, etctetc?
Or Sergey, Sergei, etc?

 

youABSOLUTELY DO NOT SPEELL IT CHAIKOVSKY!!! THATS HORRIBLE!!! AND WRONG!!!

[imbetter]

There are different ways to spell it, mostly depending on where you are from. For example: Rachmaninoff, Rachmaninov, Rachmaninow, Rakhmaninoff, Rakhmaninov, Rakhmaninow

[gep]

youABSOLUTELY DO NOT SPEELL IT CHAIKOVSKY!!! THATS HORRIBLE!!! AND WRONG!!!

There's no need to shout, I can read you perfectly from here.

I don't speell it Chaikovsky, but doing so is not wrong, let alone horrible. Any name (or word) written in one alphabet that has to be translated into another is written in an approximation. The English letter combination ch is pronounced something like tsj. As you can easily CHeck. Hence, writing Chaikovksy results in a pronounciation starting with Tsj. As it should be. As is Chekov (or do you spell Tsjekov? Would be correct too, actually!)

[ahinton]

There are different ways to spell it, mostly depending on where you are from. For example: Rachmaninoff, Rachmaninov, Rachmaninow, Rakhmaninoff, Rakhmaninov, Rakhmaninow

Yes - and all six of them were such wonderful composers and pianists (and also conductors, by some accounts, albeit far less frequently)...

Best,

Alistair

[ara9100]

Since Rachmaninov Or Tchaikovsky, or even Prokofiev and Shostakovick And etc... Are not english Names You can spell the name how you want as long as it sonds the same as the Native equivelant.

[ramseytheii]

It will depend on what country you live in.

A more important issue is the first names of composers.  If you live in a Western country, their first names should be transposed to your country's version of the name.

For instances, the French say, Jean-Sebastian Bach.  We should say, in America and England, John Sebastian Bach.

Peter Tchaikovsky; Demetrius Shostakovich; Frederick Chopin; Serge Rachmaninoff; Louis van Beethoven; Frank Schubert; Anthony Vivaldi; Joseph Verdi; James Puccini; Henry Schuetz.

Since we transpose some of them (noone says Gay-orgue Freed-riche Handel) we should transpose all of them.

Arthur Toscanini; William Furtwaengler; Arthur Schnabel; Eugene Kissin; etc.

Walter Ramsey

[retrouvailles]

Since we transpose some of them (noone says Gay-orgue Freed-riche Handel) we should transpose all of them.

Disagreed. I am one person that says ['gɛ.oɐg 'fʁid.rIç ˈhɛn.dəl] (I hope you know IPA), the way it was intended to be said (yes, I know he changed his name when he moved to England), and I know quite a few musicians (and some common folk) that do the same. I think that is how it should be. I've listened to radio broadcasts from Europe, and they do their best to say the composers' names as they were intended to be said in their native countries, so why should we be any different? It just seems like a cheap bastardization and a form of disrespect to anglicize someone's name just to suit our purposes. We should just try our best to say it as they would. It doesn't have to be perfect. Also, how often does one see "Louis van Beethoven" or "Frank Schubert"? That is just plain stupid and silly, if you ask me.

[ramseytheii]

Disagreed. I am one person that says ['gɛ.oɐg 'fʁid.rIç ˈhɛn.dəl] (I hope you know IPA), the way it was intended to be said (yes, I know he changed his name when he moved to England), and I know quite a few musicians (and some common folk) that do the same. I think that is how it should be. I've listened to radio broadcasts from Europe, and they do their best to say the composers' names as they were intended to be said in their native countries, so why should we be any different? It just seems like a cheap bastardization and a form of disrespect to anglicize someone's name just to suit our purposes. Also, how often does one see "Louis van Beethoven" or "Frank Schubert"? That is just plain stupid and silly, if you ask me.

I've heard very few people say gɛ.oɐg 'fʁid.rIç ˈhɛn.dəl (thanks for that), but then again I know few people besides myself who say Louis van Beethoven. 

Since English is the dominant world language, I suspect a double standard applies.  Noone complains when the French say Louis van Beethoven (and they do) or Jean-Sebastian Bach; but try and say it in America and people accuse you of "bastardizing" and "disrespecting" other languages.  But why?  What's so rude about it?  It actually makes those composers more accessible, because we can relate to their names.

Their names anyways are common to several Western languages, and thus should be pronounced in the language of whatever country you're in.  The last names of course, should be pronounced as they would in their native land. 

Even that common sense rule though is not followed as often as we would imagine.  Names like Bach, Wagner, Chopin, Debussy, Schubert, Mendelssohn, Schoenberg, Wolf, etc. are routinely mispronounced - actually anglicized - on radio stations and in music schools throughout the nation.

Let us put things in their proper order: anglicized forenames (when possible), properly pronounced surnames.

Walter Ramsey

[retrouvailles]

Well, I suppose the anglicization of first names is understandable in some cases. For example, if it's completely unpronounceable by a foreigner. However, if it is something that is already accepted (most people say Johann Sebastian Bach correctly, or his first and middle name at least), it should be simply left alone. However, for a performer or less known composer, or someone who is susceptible to a ton of transliterations, I suppose it is fine to anglicize. How many people say Pyotr Illyich Tchaikovsky? Most people say Peter Tchaikovsky, mainly because many people have trouble saying Pyotr.

[gep]

It will depend on what country you live in.

A more important issue is the first names of composers.  If you live in a Western country, their first names should be transposed to your country's version of the name.

For instances, the French say, Jean-Sebastian Bach.  We should say, in America and England, John Sebastian Bach.

Peter Tchaikovsky; Demetrius Shostakovich; Frederick Chopin; Serge Rachmaninoff; Louis van Beethoven; Frank Schubert; Anthony Vivaldi; Joseph Verdi; James Puccini; Henry Schuetz.

Since we transpose some of them (noone says Gay-orgue Freed-riche Handel) we should transpose all of them.

Arthur Toscanini; William Furtwaengler; Arthur Schnabel; Eugene Kissin; etc.

Walter Ramsey

Why on earth "should" we transpose names? (By the way, it would be Lodewijk van Beethoven, he was of Dutch descent)!
How would you transpose Tan Dun? Einojuhani Rautavaara?
Learn to pronounce the names the right way, rather than mutelating them!

Gep

[retrouvailles]

Why on earth "should" we transpose names? (By the way, it would be Lodewijk van Beethoven, he was of Dutch descent)!
How would you transpose Tan Dun? Einojuhani Rautavaara?
Learn to pronounce the names the right way, rather than mutelating them!

Gep

Hah, I was actually going to use Rautavaara as an example, but Tan Dun is better. If you were to transpose these names, you would get something like John Rautavaara and Shield Tan. Just another classic case of why we shouldn't transpose names. And besides, Einojuhani Rautavaara isn't that hard to say.

[thalbergmad]

Joe Green is easier for me to say than Guiseppe Verdi.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I think all musicians should learn IPA anyways (not just vocalists). That way, they will be able to look up an IPA transcription of the composer's name and always be able to say it, rather than relying on a crude approximation of what someone said, which can sometimes lead to embarrasingly disastrous results. I would know, for almost no one in this country can say my last name correctly.

[gep]

Joe Green is easier for me to say than Guiseppe Verdi.

Thal

Easier it may be, but the original sounds way better, no? Joe Green could be you local somewhat shifty grocer, but Djusèppèh Vèrrrrrdee sounds like your not-so-local purveyor of rare delicacies...

And Thalbergmad is somewhat easier than Hochgipfelverrückt, I guess...

Not that I am going to put on my full real name here, but anyone who would know it would have a pretty hard time switching it into another language, dominant or not!

Gep

[thalbergmad]

Djusèppèh Vèrrrrrdee sounds like your not-so-local purveyor of rare delicacies...

He is my barber

[ahinton]

He is my barber

Does he shave you or leave you with a beard?

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

Why on earth "should" we transpose names? (By the way, it would be Lodewijk van Beethoven, he was of Dutch descent)!
How would you transpose Tan Dun? Einojuhani Rautavaara?
Learn to pronounce the names the right way, rather than mutelating them!

Gep

No, you've got it wrong.  We should only transpose forenames when they have an equivalent in whatever language we speak.  I am not talking about translations, like when Asian names also occur as words that can be translated.  I am talking about names like Peter, Paul, and Mary, etc., that occur in many different ways, in many different languages.

I don't know if Einojuhani has an equivalent in English, but if it does, I would definitely use it.

For instance: Kissin's first name is in English: Eugene.  But Sviatoslav, as in Richter, does not have an English equivalent.  So call him Sviatoslav.

If you're in Germany, say Johann Sebastian Bach.  If you are in France (and they do do this), say Jean-Sebastian Bach.  if you are in America, say John Sebastian Bach.  It's simple.

Why should anyone in an English-speaking country say "Arturo" Toscanini?  In America, Arturo is Arthur.  

Surnames should be pronounced properly to the language whence they originate.

Walter Ramsey


PS His name is Ludwig van Beethoven; but in America, we should say Louis; in the Netherlands, say Lodewijk. 

[mr music]

Spelling: Wouldn’t matter how you spell it, it still looks right, but I usually say it’s the one with the big “R” and all the little letters after it.

Pronunciation: I used to have a Russian teacher and for weeks after I first met her, I’d be searching the net for this composer called Chickovsky. And it was only until about four weeks later she showed me a piece of music by Tchaikovsky… my search was over ^ ^

Mr Music.

[jlh]

Russian transliteration can vary between languages.  It is not the end of the world.  

As far as the Rachmaninoff vs. Rachmaninov vs. 'whatever else' controversy.. personally I prefer the composer's own English/American transliteration of Sergei Rachmaninoff, which is what he used as his signature once he moved to America.



To be entirely correct, you would need the Russian spelling of Сергей Васильевич Рахманинов.

[richard black]

Ciaikovski. Or indeed Ceaikovski.

And by the way, you spell 'composer's name' like that, not 'composers name'.

[retrouvailles]

I might just start spelling it as [tɕɪjˈkofskʲɪj] to avoid any sort of confusion.