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Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu (Read 30016 times)

Offline justinjalandoni

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Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
« on: May 07, 2009, 03:29:32 PM »
Which is harder?

piano sheet music of Fantaisie-Impromptu


Offline birba

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #1 on: May 07, 2009, 08:23:09 PM »
Maybe the liebestraum.  The fantasie impromptu, once you've mastered the articulation in the r.h., isn't difficult.  Probably the hardest thing in both compositions is getting beyond the "preconceived conception".  Finding YOUR liebestraum or fantasie impromptu.

Offline go12_3

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #2 on: May 07, 2009, 09:00:54 PM »
I think Liszt's music are always harder for me to learn.  In fact, I may have learned one piece by him and I cannot recall what piece it was!   I have *looked* through the Liebestraum, and it was too complicated for me.  It's a beautiful piece that most pianists do learn, perhaps one day I'll take another *look* at it.

 Right now, I am learning the Fantaisie Impromtu and it's a wonderful piece with a melodic overtones.  The first part is difficult due to tempo and rhythm, but the middle slower section is quite lovely.  Once I get my fingers knowing what to do and go, then I feel this piece will be mastered, although not completely because I am not a professional pianist.
 
So which piece is harder?  It depends upon the pianist's technical and musical abilities in which  I am striving for.

best wishes,

go12_3
Yesterday was the day that passed,
Today is the day I live and love,Tomorrow is day of hope and promises...

Offline antichrist

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #3 on: May 08, 2009, 01:16:36 AM »
I've try and train a bit on both

For FI You need to focus on the rythm
Liebestraum is around its lv, difficulty mainly not from the two cadenza
but like the climax 

Offline aslanov

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #4 on: May 08, 2009, 03:46:05 AM »
I'd say liebestraum is a harder piece.........i haven't looked at the piece in a while, but in terms of technique...well its a different technique than the impromptu, so i dont' know how one would compare its difficulty, because technique to technique is different person to person. Musically however, for me liebestraum holds much more depth.

Offline justinjalandoni

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #5 on: May 08, 2009, 02:39:17 PM »
Well i tried Fantaisie Impromptu an didn't get past the first few bars due to the tempo  :( but i can play Liebestraum quite well. Also why does Fantasie Impromptu sound much harder?

Offline go12_3

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #6 on: May 08, 2009, 05:28:58 PM »
Well i tried Fantaisie Impromptu an didn't get past the first few bars due to the tempo  :( but i can play Liebestraum quite well. Also why does Fantasie Impromptu sound much harder?

Both right and left hand plays  different rhythms on the first section of the piece. 
Yesterday was the day that passed,
Today is the day I live and love,Tomorrow is day of hope and promises...

Offline cloches_de_geneve

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #7 on: May 17, 2009, 08:54:20 PM »
Overall, I find most Liszt easier than Chopin. Of course, his music is technically demanding, but he always made sure he wrote it down in the most accessible, pianistic way. His fingerings are excellent throughout, I've only very rarely changed one of his recommended fingerings.
I think Chopin was very refined and sophisticated in his notations and fingerings, but sometimes bordering on the cumbersome. Several of his Etudes are really hard to play well; this is probably why so many legends of the piano (Rubinstein, Horowitz, Michelangeli) never recorded, or even performed them as a set. 
"It's true that I've driven through a number of red lights on occasion, but on the other hand I've stopped at a lot of green ones but never gotten credit for it." -- Glenn Gould

Offline anne126

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #8 on: May 17, 2009, 11:12:14 PM »
Chopin

Offline ghbarrows

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 08:42:28 AM »
Both have their moments, but to play Chopin's Impromptu well requires a lot of drill and continual attention, whereas Lizt requires attention to the ornamental areas which can have variable interpretations.  I've played both for over 40 years, and am still "learning" them.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 11:27:05 AM »
Why don't these two "songs" just go away and die somewhere?

Thal
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Concerto Preservation Society

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 07:52:25 PM »
Why don't these two "songs" just go away and die somewhere?

What does Liebestraume translate to, again?
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


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Offline birba

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 09:51:24 PM »
lovedream ::)

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 03:22:36 AM »
lovedream ::)

What?

Really?

I honestly didn't know that.  That's interesting.  Thanks for answering my question.  You know what someone should make?  Someone should make like, an online resource that translates from one language to another.  I wish there was such a thing.


Do you happen to also know what "kurzsichtig" means in English?  I don't speak German very well x:
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline invictious

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 04:35:41 AM »
Liebes - loooooove (the infinitive form is lieben, where it means to love)
Träume - dreams
Liebesträume = lovedreams

Kurzsichtig - short-sighted.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 04:42:00 AM »
Träume - dream
Liebesträume = lovedream

Actually, Träume = dreams and Liebesträume = lovedreams. Traum = dream and Liebestraum = lovedream.

Offline invictious

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 04:46:15 AM »
Actually, Träume = dreams and Liebesträume = lovedreams. Traum = dream and Liebestraum = lovedream.

I stand corrected.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 04:51:05 AM »
Kurzsichtig - short-sighted.

Lulz.  THE IRONY.


It means "short-sighted" if you're having Babelfish tell you what it means.  It actually means obtuse.  I'm afraid you fell into someone else's trap with that one :P  Talk about kurzsichtig.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline tea cup

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 05:22:13 AM »
kurzsichtig actually means does mean "short sighted"... Both adjectivally and adverbially... :(

I should know. I'm in Vienna. :D

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurzsichtigkeit

keit = English "ness"

like heiterkeit! Which this forum needs more of. :-X

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 05:37:11 AM »
kurzsichtig actually means does mean "short sighted"... Both adjectivally and adverbially... :(

I should know. I'm in Vienna. :D

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurzsichtigkeit

keit = English "ness"

like heiterkeit! Which this forum needs more of. :-X


THAT'S THE JOKE.  OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.  HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE BE SO COMPLETELY UNABLE TO INFER ANYTHING.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline tea cup

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #20 on: January 31, 2010, 05:43:33 AM »
MAYBE IF THE JOKES WEREN'T SO BLOODY LAME TO BEGIN WITH
GREAT SCOTT

with those kinds of "jokes", I should think the best grace of wit will shortly turn into silence, and discourse will grow commendable in none only but parrots! :(

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #21 on: January 31, 2010, 05:59:38 AM »
MAYBE IF THE JOKES WEREN'T SO BLOODY LAME TO BEGIN WITH
GREAT SCOTT

with those kinds of "jokes", I should think the best grace of wit will shortly turn into silence, and discourse will grow commendable in none only but parrots! :(

Pssh.  Shakespeare quotes are infantile; I require Huxley or greater.

Also.  I kind of tried that to little avail.  I believe I made the same joke 3 times before nobody got it.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #22 on: January 31, 2010, 07:51:31 AM »
I personally think that FI is quite abit harder than liebestraum to get to performance level. Liebestraum is pretty straightforward and you dont need the technical finesse like you need for FI.
1+1=11

Offline nanabush

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #23 on: January 31, 2010, 09:17:52 PM »
If you can't articulate the right hand in Liebestraum, don't even bother with FI.  I don't know of any people who can play the Chopin but find the Liszt too difficult.  This is from a technical perspective.  If you are playing stuff this level, then you should have a decent level of musical competence to 'understand' these pieces.
Interested in discussing:

-Prokofiev Toccata
-Scriabin Sonata 2

Offline john11inc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 10:55:11 PM »
The Liebestraum is more difficult, to actually answer your question.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


http://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

Offline kitty on the keys

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #25 on: February 01, 2010, 12:48:57 AM »
Both have different demands. But to me, the Liszt is more difficult---and takes a little more stamina.



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Offline chopianist123

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #26 on: February 01, 2010, 06:56:48 AM »
I'd say Liszt's Liebestraum is harder, esp those cadenzas he loved to put in !!! Both beautiful pieces though.

Offline jjs238

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #27 on: December 10, 2011, 09:52:10 PM »
Good question, I ask myself this now since I'm trying to learn the Impromptu. I think it depends on if you can hear music and then sit down and play it with the same emotion you just heard. I do this a lot with myself, I listen to someone play, then play it the way they just did but the Impromptu doesn't really have many parts for that flowing rubato where you control it, for the most part, not all of it though.  I only say that as the Liebestraume piece needs so, so much work put into the emotion. You simply cannot just read the notes and be technical and play like a piano player roll. There is so much more to Liszts' piece than the notes can ever show.

The Impromptu, I'm struggling with this one myself as it's the type of technical piece different from the Liszt piece. I mean, it's fast, takes very good fingering and you have to really know how to run those fingers. Even though there is some depth to it, most of the note lengths are pretty much the same or at least very easy to read on paper.

Overall, I can't play the Impromptu yet but I can play other complex works like Liebestraume so I guess it comes down to how you learned and if you play by ear or not. The technique for Liszt is hard to figure out but once you got it, you just work with it and add in the dynamics. The other though, needs the technique upfront, I mean that.

Update - Think what I'm trying to say is that the Impromptu as written, controls me where as Liebestraume leaves me more in control of the music. Does that make sense? Think it's all the same note lengths from Impromptu and if you miss a few, it's well noticed. That's why it's hard for me. More room for noticeable error in Chopin.

I play above my grade level because I think it's the personal touch I put into what I learn. I really can't play all that much but the ones I can, take years of work but I tend to listen, then learn. I need to practice my core technique more if I want to do this Impromptu.

Offline werq34ac

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #28 on: December 11, 2011, 03:51:25 PM »
I can sight read Liebestraume except for that nasty double note cadenza. Fantasie-Impromptu I've tried playing enough times to know the notes so I can't really sight read it anymore.

In general Liebestraume requires more care with the melody and making sure the they are always taking care of the melody (especially in the climax). The technical difficulties themselves aren't actually that difficult and the only problem (i have) is in the double note cadenza which needs to be very fluid.

Fantasie-Impromptu on the other hand has a slightly confusing polyrhythm for those who haven't had the experience with polyrhythms yet. Also the piece is just plain fast which might be difficult if you don't start out slow.

In general I don't find either piece particularly awkward and both fit the hand pretty well I would say (APART FROM THE DOUBLE NOTE CADENZA)
Ravel Jeux D'eau
Brahms 118/2
Liszt Concerto 1
Rachmaninoff/Kreisler Liebesleid

Offline darkspirit

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #29 on: January 06, 2012, 03:47:25 PM »
i played both pieces b4 and fantasie impromptu is definitely harder, the tempo and the speed already is difficult to achieve (e.g the notes of right hand has a faster tempo than the left hand)

Offline jesc

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #30 on: January 06, 2012, 04:21:25 PM »
I studied both in succession when I was in highschool years ago. From what I recall I felt no "great leap" in difficulty between them. I think I studied fantasie impromptu first then Liebestraum.

Offline pianoplayjl

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #31 on: January 07, 2012, 11:41:52 AM »
I never studied either one but hopefully by looking at sheet music I might be able to form a judgement ;D. I think the Impromptu is harder because of the speed which you have to play which demands a great deal of dexterity and also the cross rhythms. Then you also have the middle section which demands a great deal of musicianship. But the impromptu is repetitive in some parts. But the difficulty of both pieces also depends on pianists, who have conflicting opinions.

JL
Funny? How? How am I funny?

Offline canada100

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #32 on: February 25, 2014, 12:12:30 AM »
Again, why compare one piece with another? It is absurd and illogical to do this. Both of them are written in different styles, in different times, and by different composers. Each composer has his own language. Chopin has his, Liszt has his.

Neither of these pieces are too difficult, and are very accessible. The Chopin Fantasie-Impromptu should not be a problem as long as you mastered your 3 against 4 polyrhythms. Remember, polyrhythms are much easier to play in fast than slow, and they sound much more even fast than slow.

With Liszt, everything fits the hand, and those who know their basic technical idioms; scales, arpeggios, chords, octaves, broken chords, broken octaves, thirds, 6ths, etc. should have no prolem at all. There are no awkward moments in Liszt, and contrary to common belief, his music is very accessible and easily understood by advanced pianists.

Offline illusionary

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #33 on: February 26, 2014, 12:26:40 PM »
I'd say the Liszt is the harder piece. The Chopin is surprisingly quite over-rated in terms of difficulty. Both are still notably difficult to play well

Offline pianoman1800

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Re: Liebestraum no 3 vs. Fantasie Impromptu
«Reply #34 on: February 26, 2014, 01:22:01 PM »
The Fantasie Impromptu. Liszt has some octaves and sometimes the left hand is tricky, but overall it is not that bloody. The fantasie impromptu however, does not only require a great right hand technique and virtousity, you must also have mastered the three against four note technique, which is frequently used in the fantasie impromptu.