To busy??

[bizgirl]

Ugh!  Does anyone else have a student who comes week after week and, when asked why they haven't practiced, they proceed to tell you about how they were too busy and couldn't?

Today one of my 8 year old students came and told me this for at least the fifth consecutive week why she couldn't.  She couldn't practice on Friday because she forgot, she couldn't practice on Monday, Tuesday and wednesday because she was at day camp and didn't get home until... 3pm, then she had to watch TV and eat dinner and by then the day was gone, and she couldn't practice on Saturday and Sunday because those are her days off!
The last one was the most shocking to me.  How can you have days off if you never have any days on!?!  Whenever she tells me this I fell like saying "do you want to live my schedule for a week?"  Who has time for TV and days off!?!  Sorry, this is a vent.  I am so exasperated.  It's really hard to get an 8 year old to give up their TV time to practice.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

[pianostring]

You need to get the parents on board.  Have them choose the best time of day for the child to practice, then hold them responsible.  After a student becomes proficient, the monitoring is no longer necessary.  

I tell them, "You only need to practice on the days you eat."  

Actually, my students have so much fun "playing" that they can't walk by a piano without playing it.  I only mention practicing in a case such as this one you're struggling with.

Be sure to reward her when you see a change for the better.  

[faulty_damper]

I'm a student and I have to say that a couple of lessons I've taken I didn't have the time to practice much.  But now that I have more time, that hasn't been an issue.  But also, some lessons, I just didn't practice what she asked me to practice.  Who wants to play Czerny?  Practicing exercises that don't seem to have any bearing on what you want to play is tedious and boring.  So I didn't practice the exercises much and played other things.  Or the piece looked too difficult for me to want to practice it so I didn't practice it and played other things.  Pieces that look difficult can be scary.  Too many notes on the page and more than 3 pages are a lot to someone without the ability to play it.  Or the piece just wasn't something I wanted to play.  It was boring and who wants to do something boring?

And the thing about an 8 year old: her parents.  It's the parents who are paying for it so it's partly their duty to make sure she practices.  And because they are her parents, much of her actions are dependent on them.  Yell, lecture, pregnant dog slap, bull flower, etc. at them.  Try the bull flower first to see how they would like someone constantly bull flowering about why they didn't _____.  Then yell, calm down and lecture, then if they are still making excuses for their daughter, then apply the pregnant dog slap technique.  I gaurantee the last part will make you feel better.  Unless they hit back.  (I'm kidding of course.)

Another thing: anyone, regardless of age, will do something if they are motivated to do it.  She probably doesn't practice because there is little incentive to do so.  Watching television provides immediate gratification and practicing 20 minutes will not provide that gratification.  As the teacher it is partly your responsibility to provide her with some kind of incentive whether it is petty and superficial or actual and substantial.  The latter is difficult for an 8 year old and perhaps most other people.

And another thing:  She's a bull flowerer.  8 year olds shouldn't be bull flowering like that.  That's what adolescence and adulthood are for.  "Saturdays and Sundays are my days off" is totally bull flower and 8 years old!?  I imagine you haven't talked to her mother about it, have you?  If she's a bull flowerer at 8, imagine what she'll be like at 9!

Last thing: you could just release her.  If your schedule is so busy, one less bull flowerer would make it less hectic for you.  

Bizgirl's Piano Day Care Center
An alternative is to just keep her around because it's easy $$$.  If your time is valuable, and someone has the money to pay for it, then take it.  It's called baby sitting and even babysitters get paid for taking care of people's children if only for an hour.  Wouldn't that be an interesting idea?  You'd run a baby sitting center where all the kid does is sit in front on the piano for an hour and you say these words: Good, great, fantastic, perfect, excellent, etc.  And the best part is you only have one kid at a time!

[Khartwig]

I usually know from the look on my students' faces whether they have practiced during the week.  The shape of their mouth goes to form an excuse.  My immediate response is to say, "You didn't practice, because you didn't make time for it.  Now let's start your lesson, and I'll reassign everything for next week."

One of my students enrolled when she was in grade 1.  Lots of talent, regular practicing, etc.  Now she's picked up cheer (big in the Southwest here), tumbling, Catholic instruction once a week, softball, and guitar.  Her lesson attendance is fairly good, but her performance and practicing habits have fallen dramatically.

My husband says to be patient and keep teaching her.  I haven't decided.

[kulahola]

Either you kick her out or you scold her and punish her and hope she will change.
I just finished my lessons today and lost my temper with an 8 year old which is VERY talented but obviously did nt practise at all this week. I told her i am not going to keep her in my class if she fails practising one more time. I severely beat her as well. I talked to her mother and said i am not going to accept this behaviour anymore.
It ended in tears but it is the only way. I dont want to teach students who make me waste my time.

[xvimbi]

Either you kick her out or you scold her and punish her and hope she will change.
I just finished my lessons today and lost my temper with an 8 year old which is VERY talented but obviously did nt practise at all this week. I told her i am not going to keep her in my class if she fails practising one more time. I severely beat her as well. I talked to her mother and said i am not going to accept this behaviour anymore.
It ended in tears but it is the only way. I dont want to teach students who make me waste my time.

You got to be kidding! If not, you're a disgrace to the profession.
Do those kids a favor and release them before you have the feeling you need to beat them. This will save a lot of mental anguish. From your other posts, it seems you treat all your students the same way, and as you said, if they don't behave, you will kick them out in the end anyway. So if you know that you will kick them out anyway, why scold and beat them? Do a survey among those you have kicked out and ask them if they have ever picked up the piano again and if not, why not. They will probably tell you "You have distroyed piano playing for me for the rest of my life!". Keep in mind that you depend on your students, they don't depend on you! Losing your temper in the way you described is a sign of a lousy teacher, not someone who can nurture talent and bring out the best in people. You will probably say that you have had so and so many students who went on to become really good pianists. But how many have nightmares because of you?

[kulahola]

You got it wrong. I have so har never kicked out any student.

[kulahola]

By the way. I dont depend on my students. I dont need them for a living, so I only take talented and motivated students. If they are not satisfied, I ask them to look for another teacher but so far they dont want to change.

[xvimbi]

By the way. I dont depend on my students. I dont need them for a living, so I only take talented and motivated students. If they are not satisfied, I ask them to look for another teacher but so far they dont want to change.

You take only motivated students? They don't seem to be able to maintain their motivation, do they? You must be the new incarnation of lalasvensson!

[kulahola]

well, the fact is that they are very motivated. But of course they are kids, and most kids are lazy, and need some scolding from time to time to go back on the right tracks.

[bernhard]

You take only motivated students? They don't seem to be able to maintain their motivation, do they? You must be the new incarnation of lalasvensson!

Actually, kulahola is lallasvenson. She came back with a new name (she told us so in another thread somewhere).

I would take what she says with a pinch of salt. I believe she likes to provoke. I doubt very much she "severely beat" a student. If I was to "severely beat" a student s/he would be in intensive care in hospital and I would be facing a grievous bodily harm court proceedings.

Also notice how she often says something in a post to then tone it down a few posts later. (This very thread is a good example).

Anyway, I think this is a very funny and enjoyable thread. Please keep at it.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[kulahola]

Hi Bernhard
Yes you are right i am Lallasvensson, previously banned on this forum because of my traditional teaching.
Well, isnt it strange ? I am indeed very strict and I use fear as a means of teaching but still all my students love me, and their parents as well.
After this memorable lesson today, my pupil was of course crying and we had a looooooong hug and now I am off for the summer and she said she would miss me and so on... What only matters to me is that my students make progress and I find that this works very well, so why change ? and i dont have any patience about laziness, I cant find any excuse for that. And what I hate above all is when my students lie. Today my 8 year old was supposed to play Bflat major scale, and she can play all scales without any  problem normally, but today it was obvious she hadnt practised and couldnt hide it (just this scale has actually a tricky fingering). After i asked her 4 times whether she did practise and she dared to answer yes, i couldnt help hitting her. She is not in the hospital, dont worry. I really cant stand that students, besides being lazy and disobeying, lie to me. I think she will remember it for quite a while now.

[xvimbi]

Thanks, Bernhard, for telling me that kulahola is in fact lallasvenson. That clears things up for me. I thought I had deja vu

So, one has to take whatever kulahola says with a grain of salt, and she likes to be provocative? So do I, it keeps people's minds on their toes, so to say. Yet, as provocative as people might be, one still has to be able to take them seriously. What should I make of this statement:

You got it wrong. I have so har never kicked out any student.

Which was preceded by this statement taken from the "Strict vs. lax" thread:

I am very, very strict except with the students for whom I gave up any hope but I always kick them out at the end.

And how then should one treat any of her other statements?

[kulahola]

Both statements are true.
I always use threaten my non-pratising students to be kicked out but this has not happened yet. But I wont hesitate to do it if I need to. I always remind the parents to cancel the lessons before when they see that their kids havent practised. or i kick out the student just for the current lesson. I say: so you actually dare come to the lesson without practising ? fine, thank you, it s finished for today, i dont want to see you anymore today.

To be more precise, I really wanted to kick one 6 year old out last week, but her father (whom I never met before) came twice to the lesson and promised to make her practise 1 hour a day during the summer and so on so let s see, i report my decision until after the summer.

[bizgirl]

Faulty_Damper - thanks for the humor.  I needed it  Bizgirl's Piano Day Care Center... sometimes it sounds really nice.  I have tried giving her music purely for fun in addition to her regular lesson music in hopes that she would want to play that and then she might *accidentally* play something she's supposed to be working on for her lessons since she's already at the piano.  However, it did not work as planned.  She didn't even play the "fun" stuff.  [I know, I know.. all music is "fun" - to us.  It's hard to imagine, but some people see it differently ]The parents are aware, and they don't make excuses for her, but I think I will try to give them some suggestions for making sure the practicing gets done.  I'll tell them she only needs to practice the days she eats (that's a great one pianostring:)) Today I had a recital  and I could tell she practiced a lot since Thursday.  I know hearing anyone play, even my own students, inspires me to work harder; hopefully it will do the same for her.

[Saturn]

After i asked her 4 times whether she did practise and she dared to answer yes, i couldnt help hitting her. She is not in the hospital, dont worry.

After reading this, I couldn't help but get furious.

What the hell is wrong with you?  You should be in jail.  You should never hit a student, and if you do, it should be out of "loving discipline", not out of a loss of temper.

Either way, that's the parents' job, not yours.  Unless they give you permission to hit their kid, you're severely overstepping the ethical (and legal) boundaries of a teacher.  I'm disgusted.

- Saturn

[xvimbi]

After reading this, I couldn't help but get furious.

What the hell is wrong with you?  You should be in jail.  You should never hit a student, and if you do, it should be out of "loving discipline", not out of a loss of temper.

Either way, that's the parents' job, not yours.  Unless they give you permission to hit their kid, you're severely overstepping the ethical (and legal) boundaries of a teacher.  I'm disgusted.

- Saturn

Saturn, you must be from the States. To explain, but NOT to defend this type of behavior: teachers in Europe have had, over the centuries, the right to discipline pupils, including beating them. Parents completely supported this as teachers were considered parent substitutes to some extent and given corresponding rights. I personally recall an incident, where I came home from school bitterly complaining to my dad that my teacher had slapt me. My dad, right there on the spot, slapt me again and said "I'm sure your teacher had good reasons for it". Of course, he was right, as I was a naughty brat. I never made that mistake again.

So, there is definitely a cultural difference here. And there is one more: In Europe, improving somebody's performance is primarily done through criticizing the insufficient aspects. Motivation through praising the good aspects is rare as those are taken for granted. In addition, praising everything and not critcizing only establishes mediocre performance.

However, I strongly believe that there is a balanced way of going about these things that does not include beating and will achieve the same results, perhaps even better ones, because teaching through fear can have severe psychological side effects. Definitely, losing one's temper must never happen. When it comes to disciplining somebody, one has to be particularly careful and in complete control.

What makes me really furious is that many teachers don't consider the individual personality of their students - they treat all students the same way. Teachers have to be psychologists to a great extent and use methods that their students can actually handle. They need to be able to adapt to their students. Kids are not machines.

[Saturn]

Saturn, you must be from the States. To explain, but NOT to defend this type of behavior: teachers in Europe have had, over the centuries, the right to discipline pupils, including beating them. Parents completely supported this as teachers were considered parent substitutes to some extent and given corresponding rights. I personally recall an incident, where I came home from school bitterly complaining to my dad that my teacher had slapt me. My dad, right there on the spot, slapt me again and said "I'm sure your teacher had good reasons for it". Of course, he was right, as I was a naughty brat. I never made that mistake again.

So, there is definitely a cultural difference here.

Yes, I'm from the States, and there is a cultural difference.  I took this cultural difference into account before I posted what I did, and I don't see how it changes things at all.  Just because it is socially acceptable for the teacher to beat a student, doesn't make it right, or beneficial for that matter.

Even if we say that it's acceptable for the teacher to discipline the student, what kulahola said was that she "lost her temper" and "severely beat [the student]".  This isn't discipline, it's an irresponsible use of force!  Even assuming cultural differences, I don't think you'll find a family in any "modernized" part of Europe or Asia who would condone this.

However, I strongly believe that there is a balanced way of going about these things that does not include beating and will achieve the same results, perhaps even better ones, because teaching through fear can have severe psychological side effects. Definitely, losing one's temper must never happen. When it comes to disciplining somebody, one has to be particularly careful and in complete control.

Good, then we essentially agree.

- Saturn

[Shagdac]

Saturn wrote:

What the hell is wrong with you?  You should be in jail.  You should never hit a student, and if you do, it should be out of "loving discipline", not out of a loss of temper.

as a response to Kulahola. At first I thought, great someone besides me finds this an absolute OUTRAGE! But then in his very next line...if you do (HIT A STUDENT) it should be out of loving discipline, not loss of temper.

I don't know whether to laugh or scream!?! I have never heard of anything so absolutely ridiculous in my life. I must have missed something here.....are some people in this thread stating that they actually HIT a student as discipline? As in punch, slap, strike, BEAT???
Please tell me I've misread this. I cannot believe that anyone would actually do something like that. I can certainly see being upset over a student not practicing, and releasing a student. But for anyone to actually touch, let alone HIT a child no matter what they did at a lesson is ludicrous. Boy, if any teacher did that to MY child, they'd be in jail so fast they wouldn't know what hit'em. What a poor excuse for a human being. Wonder what else they do to those poor kids?

Completely and Utterly Disgusted,
S

[Saturn]

as a response to Kulahola. At first I thought, great someone besides me finds this an absolute OUTRAGE! But then in his very next line...if you do (HIT A STUDENT) it should be out of loving discipline, not loss of temper.

The only real reason why I put this in is to cover the issue of "cultural differences."  I figured there were some places where it was considered acceptable for the teacher to discipline the student.  So I added this line to show that even there, hitting a student out of anger would be wrong.

Don't worry, Susan, I find the idea of a piano teacher hitting his/her students to be just as disgusting as you do.  The only time I'd be okay with a teacher hitting a student is if the student were doing something completely extreme, like trying to murder the teacher or setting fire to the piano.

Hitting a student for not practicing is stupid and counterproductive because it doesn't get to the root of the problem.  If a student doesn't practice, it's obviously because he/she doesn't want to!

- Saturn

[Shagdac]

Thanks Saturn....I feel much better

Actually I'm trying to stop laughing at your comment about "only if a student were trying something extreme like trying to murder the teacher or set piano on fire"!
Hahaha...I wonder how many students have actually felt like that! I wonder how many teachers have felt like that!

I have only several students now. I had more, complete beginners, pretty young, ages from 4-9 pretty much. I only do it for beginners and take them only as far as I feel I can help them, then refer them to someone more advanced in teaching. I had one not too long ago, in fact I wrote a post here as I felt badly about releasing her. She was 5, and never practiced....but this went on for weeks. She had been warned several times, as well as discussions with her parents. It simply wasn't worth my time...or they're $$$. But I really do feel as an adult one should set a good example for students. I would stop teaching before I would strike a student.
Thanks for putting my mind at ease!

S

[Stolzing]

Hitting a child because they dont practice is terrible.  I couldnt even think of doing this.  I think it's better to yank them by the hair since this wont leave any marks or bruises like hitting will.  And if they tell their parents it's your word against theirs and who are they going to believe?    (Just so it's perfectly clear, this is a joke   )

[Khartwig]

I am definitely still trying to find a balance between being nice to my students, yet being demanding.  My college theory professor never tried to be likeable, yet was the best teacher I ever had.

The problem for me is that kids love me.  I have two young children, an inviting home, and they feel comfortable here.  It is sometimes hard to make a student realize my disappointment in their progress.
A parent told one of my students, "Mrs. Hartwig is just hoping you can work a little harder, because she knows how talented you are and how good you are at piano, and she wants you to be all that you can be."  Baloney.  He's a spoiled kid that doesn't practice but fits into the day-care student category.  Humanism gets pretty annoying when you're just trying to GET THEM TO PRACTICE!

[kulahola]

I want to make it clear to everybody that:
(1) kids do love me. I do hit, but I do hug as well.
(2) i dont do this job to be loved. Just to share my love for music, it s very different.

[Magnus]

Kulahola, I am just qurious. Where do you hit your students? How hard do you hit them?

[Saturn]

Also, I'm curious as to where in the world it's socially acceptable for teachers to beat/discipline students.  "Europe" was mentioned, but where in Europe?

I just checked with a friend who lives in England, and she says it's absolutely inexcusable.  If the teacher does any such thing, he/she gets fired and possibly handed a lawsuit.

- Saturn

[xvimbi]

Also, I'm curious as to where in the world it's socially acceptable for teachers to beat/discipline students.  "Europe" was mentioned, but where in Europe?

I just checked with a friend who lives in England, and she says it's absolutely inexcusable.  If the teacher does any such thing, he/she gets fired and possibly handed a lawsuit.

- Saturn

This is only since a few decades. I was talking in past tense, because it is changing, even in "old, backwards" Europe. Nowadays, it is no longer allowed to hit a child at a public school (there might be some exceptions, though, particularly in Eastern European countries - I am not sure). In my times, and that is not too long back, it was clearly tolerated by the parents, and nobody would have dreamt of prosecuting any teacher, unless it got out of bounds, which it never got anyway. This situation was not only present at schools, but also in the workplace (apprentice/master relationship). Pictures from old and famous private and church run schools are only too vivid. Those are the times where piano teachers acquired to carry rulers.

Many people who have experienced such teachers are teachers themselves now, and I can see that they would still resort to hitting their pupils, because that is what happened to them. Also, hitting a child in a public school and hitting a child in a private home during private lessons is very different.

[faulty_damper]

Also, hitting is or was acceptable by teachers in Asian countries.  I remember watching movies/shows where the teacher always had a ruler with holes in it (to cut down on air resistance) so they could swing the ruler faster.  They would usually slap whatever body part that did the offending, usually the hand.  And sometimes, the kid in the movie/show would cry.  They were hit in front of the class so every other student could see what he did wrong and his punishment.

[Shagdac]

Kulahola,

Just curious....do the parents of the children you teach KNOW that you hit the kids as part of your teaching discipline? What do they say? Have you ever had a parent get upset with you? Also....have you ever had any adult students? If so, do you hit them as well?
Ever had anyone slug you back? I know if you were my teacher and dared actually hit me, it would be the last time you raised your hand to anything....other than to push the wheels of your wheelchair!

S

[kulahola]

Kulahola,

Just curious....do the parents of the children you teach KNOW that you hit the kids as part of your teaching discipline? What do they say? Have you ever had a parent get upset with you? Also....have you ever had any adult students? If so, do you hit them as well?
Ever had anyone slug you back? I know if you were my teacher and dared actually hit me, it would be the last time you raised your hand to anything....other than to push the wheels of your wheelchair!

S

I teach mostly Asians so there is nothing weird in the way i m teaching, kids are perfectly aware of what is waiting for them if they misbehave. Parents think that the piano teacher is a part of the family. When we have lesson, we usually also eat altogether and so on. So far, parents never got upset. I am the one who might get upset when I have to answer their stupid questions. I dont take adult students since there is usually no hope for them to become anything. If there was hope though, i would act the same way as with kids and demand a hard work before every lesson. I would probably not accept you as a student since you seem very insolent and provocative.

[bernhard]

ha ha ha

This has to be one of the funniest threads ever in piano forum (lthough this one is also a serious contender:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=teac;action=display;num=1087736373)

I am laughing so hard I can hardly type.

[willcowskitz]

ROFLMAO!!!!!

One of my favourites was  "previously banned from this forum because of my traditional teaching"


Anyway (...buaahaha.....)  I know this piano teacher who used to take piano lessons from some horrible hag when she was a kid.  When she would mess up in her playing, the teacher hit her on fingers with a stick.  Well, after the lessons the teacher gave her a candy.  Understand?

This person got a severe trauma from it, suffers from panic disorder and can't perform anything on piano, not even for her friends.  She only teaches now.  

So, although this thread is hilarious, the mentioned "traditional" teaching methods are inhumane and ineffective.


Ok, you can now continue entertaining us.

[bernhard]

What is hilarious is not the alleged teaching methods of Lallas/kulahola.

What is hilarious is that s/he is able to get a lot of people very worked up with something that clearly is a fabrication.

Read through all of her posts. They are so full of contradictions that there is no doubt that his/her purpose is simply to stir things up.

S/he claims not to depend financially on her students. And yet she asks advice on what would be the correct fee if a parent leaves the child for her to babysit. Why should she bother with fees?

S/he claims to be a strict teacher, and yet she complains of being used by parents as a babysitter.

S/he claims to kick out any student that does not conform to her standards, but later on she confesses that she has never actually done so.

S/he claims to “severely” beat her students, but when someone asks how severely and where (in the body), she ignores the question.

S/he has not yet asked one single serious question for which one could give a serious answer. All her questions are rhetoric questions.

S/he has not answered one single question in the forum (for someone who claims to have been educated in Russia an in France, sure she could have given some useful advice on some of the repertory/performance questions posted).

I see nothing so far in his/her posts that provides evidence for any credibility on his/her claims.

S/he claims to want to be treated in a professional manner and yet has meals together with his/her students.

Finally s/he keeps talking about “traditional” methods. Personally I see nothing traditional in the methodology s/he allegedly follows. Quite the opposite, if anything s/he says is true, his/her method if anything is revolutionary, not traditional. And in my humble opinion terribly inefficient.

Where in Europe does she teach? She clained it was in Germany, but it seems more likely to me to be Disneyland (or Neverland)

Am I afraid s/he will beat me up? Not really. First s/he seems to have left (or been banned) again: his/her name turned to white. Second s/he does not know where I live. And thirdly I have black belts in five martial arts.

In the meantime I thoroughly enjoyed his/ her posts and all the responses s/he got. (I am still laughing at her answer to Susan , calling her insolent and provocative  ).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[willcowskitz]

Yes.

Of course, if it stirs people up, its even funnier when her posts are constructed like that.  "Traditional" used as a passphrase for violent, etc.  I even got a feeling that she's done "trolling" before, keeping cold distance to target of provocation when she's being the recipient of criticism, but at the same time throwing in more and more little suggestions that people will keep eyes on.  Lying and trolling requires eye and memory on details, though.

Btw, Svensson sounds Swedish, could be Finnish or Swedish.  

[Shagdac]

Well Bernhard...glad you're laughing! Actually, when I wrote my post I was so mad I was spitting nails.
What's NOW funny to me, is that the first time I read through the thread, I saw that someone had said it was that Lala person, so I thought, okay, this isn't true, just something to stir of trouble. Then when I read the post by Saturn, I was alarmed as I thought someone actually thought it was "okay" to do this (whether Lala was joking or not)....so I responded to Saturn. After saturn wrote back and made it clear that he indeed did not feel that way, I felt better. But then when I saw more of her replies, somehow I allowed myself to get all worked up over what I originally knew was hogwash to begin with. Then when I saw her response to me, lets just say I .....no lets not say anything. I just signed in to write as I could not belive you were laughing at something so terrible...Here, I thought is "Bernhard", a man who has seemingly so much dignity and has earned respect from so many of us....and here he is laughing like this is nothing (didn't even stick up for me after she called me provacative and insolent    ). And you are absolutely right...it's just all a fabrication to get people worked up! And like an idiot, I allowed this to happen....KNOWING it was not true! Guess it is a bit amusing

Oh well, wonder what it will be next time?
Hey, do you really have 5 black belts Bernhard? That's really an accomplishment. Something tells me you are one of those "over-acheiver" types, huh?

S

[xvimbi]

What is hilarious is not the alleged teaching methods of Lallas/kulahola.

What is hilarious is that s/he is able to get a lot of people very worked up with something that clearly is a fabrication.

I am not so sure about this. I get the impression that this person is real. A provoking mind would not post such blunt contradictions. Also, some of those posts contain good language, others are full of typos and wrong grammar. In my opinion, these contradictions come from a deranged personality, someone who lives half in reality and half in dreamland, potentially assisted by certain mind-affecting substances.

Or maybe it's you, Bernhard, probing our minds!

[kulahola]

Dear All,
you are all right and wrong. I am a real person, real teacher. But it s true, I don 't use any form of violence with my students. I am very strict though and completely against any  form of "fun" in the lessons.
I get totally disgusted and apalled when I read posts about using stickers and colours in lessons. So I wanted to see which kind of reactions I would get from you by stating that I hit my pupils.
Everything else is true. I don t need teaching for a living, yet I take students who ask and who deserve my time. I never kicked out any student but wont hesitate to do it if there is no point continuing that way.
Most of my students are Asians and almost dont say a word during lessons because it s their natural way to behave with teachers.
I share some meals with some of my students for the same reason. They are Asian and their mother finds it natural to go out and bring back some take away chinese food to my place and this is fine for me, as long as I dont have other plans.  It doesnt make my teaching less professional.

[faulty_damper]

It's true!  She really is a piano teacher.  And she really does teach asian students.  She even videotaped one of her best students playing.  Here's a video clip:

https://www.media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=asianarcade.wmv

[clarinetwife]

This has got to be the weirdest discussion I have ever encountered in any of the Internet groups where I hang out.  I'm not sure if it makes me want to tune in or tune out!  But then, the internet is a strange place and I am just a kid from Idaho.

Bizgirl--you mention assigning "fun stuff"  I think that if a student doesn't do their part even when you try to go with some of their individual interests, that student is messing with you and/or their parents.  In that case, playing the piano is just about out of the picture unless the student decides he or she wants to play the piano enough to stop the behavior and start practicing again.  Sometimes you have to lay it out for them and make them decide.

[Saturn]

There really is nothing wrong with the traditional method of teaching.  The reason it is the traditional way is because it works!

I remember I once had a teacher many years ago who taught in a very traditional manner.  His name was Chan.  That was his last name.  I don't think he had a first name, because everyone just called him Chan.  Of course, we students never called him Chan.  We never spoke much at all really.  After all, we were there to learn, so there was no reason to speak out of turn.  But occasionally when we did have to say something, we would address him as "Master".

He always strove for perfection from his students.  One day, I was playing a piece for him, and he was turned the other way listening.  Then, I was a little unsure on one passage, so I made a mistake.  All of a sudden, he spun around and kicked me in the face.  I was knocked out, so he punched me to wake me up, and then made me play the passage again.  I never made that mistake again!  At the end of the lesson, he spun around and acted like he was going to kick me again, just to scare me.  Then he said "Just kidding!" and he smiled.  Haha!  And we both laughed and he hugged me and then I went home.

I love him because he was such a great teacher.  I learned so much from him because of how uncompromising he was.  I don't take lessons from Chan anymore, but occasionally he drops by my house and kicks my ass just to make sure I haven't forgotten any of the lessons he's taught me.

I hope to become just like him one day!

- Saturn

[surendipity]

So, you were KOed by Kato..... sure......
Now you emulate him.......... sure..........
Want to walk in his foot kicks..............of course you do
Also you want to make Kubla Khan Piano teacher from the house of insanity look good.

Maybe both of you share the same room in the asylum.

Whatever......  it's so fumped duck it's laughable.


I'll create another post on this subject.

I think this thread is a stitch or two unraveled.

Surendipity  from the island of sanity

[kulahola]

There really is nothing wrong with the traditional method of teaching.  The reason it is the traditional way is because it works!

I remember I once had a teacher many years ago who taught in a very traditional manner.  His name was Chan.  That was his last name.  I don't think he had a first name, because everyone just called him Chan.  Of course, we students never called him Chan.  We never spoke much at all really.  After all, we were there to learn, so there was no reason to speak out of turn.  But occasionally when we did have to say something, we would address him as "Master".

He always strove for perfection from his students.  One day, I was playing a piece for him, and he was turned the other way listening.  Then, I was a little unsure on one passage, so I made a mistake.  All of a sudden, he spun around and kicked me in the face.  I was knocked out, so he punched me to wake me up, and then made me play the passage again.  I never made that mistake again!  At the end of the lesson, he spun around and acted like he was going to kick me again, just to scare me.  Then he said "Just kidding!" and he smiled.  Haha!  And we both laughed and he hugged me and then I went home.

I love him because he was such a great teacher.  I learned so much from him because of how uncompromising he was.  I don't take lessons from Chan anymore, but occasionally he drops by my house and kicks my ass just to make sure I haven't forgotten any of the lessons he's taught me.

I hope to become just like him one day!

- Saturn

Thank you Saturn for supporting me. Of course it works. Piano playing is very hard, and not for everybody. If a pupil cannot stand traditional teaching, he is not made to play the piano. I wonder why all the teachers on this forum spend time with uninterested and non-practising and untalented kids. They will anyway give up playing wothout having learnt anything. My kids are always the best in public performances and this makes them truly happy. Suddenly, all their suffering has a sense.

[Shagdac]

Hey....I was wondering Bernhard if any of your martial arts teachers disciplined you the same way when you were insolent?.......

But then I figured they didn't, since you knew you to fight back!!!!

LOL

s

[bernhard]

Hey....I was wondering Bernhard if any of your martial arts teachers disciplined you the same way when you were insolent?.......

But then I figured they didn't, since you knew you to fight back!!!!

LOL

s

Insolent? Moi?

No, no, I was very obedient, respectful and never asked any questions, just followed intructions.

Now seriously, I must say something about this, because there are many misconceptions about the Martial Arts ever since they become tainted with sports philosophy. In sports the idea is no pain no gain. But in a true martial art, the main goal is to prepare the student to defend him/herself. Therefore any sort of injury (be it being beaten by the teacher or spraining muscles from training too hard) is completely out of question. Otherwise you end up in the ridiculous situation of not being able to defend yourself because you are too injured from the training to defend yourself. Don't believe everything you see in Martial Arts movies!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

PS. You made a very interesting comment in one of the threads about playing in a sort of trance (I cannot remember exactly waht you said, and I could not find the thread. But have a look here, you may find this interesting:

https://www.pianoforum.net/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=stud;action=display;num=1087468817;start=0).

[rlefebvr]

My mother was thought by the Nun's. Trust me, back then they had no problem using a stick.

When she played her scales, if she ever glanced at the keyboard she would get whacked. You got to love the Catholic Church and if you don't they will tar and feather you until you do.

Funny how people always have to go from one extreme to the other and don't have enough brains to see the middle road.

Kids used to get beat up violently(Still do in certain parts of the world).
Now Kids get to run amok with no discipline.

Someone in this thread said it's the parents job to discipline their kids and he is right, but clearly the parents are not doing their so called job. Just ask any teacher out there.

As far as piano teaching is concerned. You are dealing with kids who for the most part are playing because it's fun, but they are practicing because they are forced too. Only time will tell if they end up enjoying and or being good at it. If you leave it to the child nothing will ever be done and that is not just piano.

It is up to the parent to make sure the child has practiced. It is to the parent you must direct your frustration if your student is not practicing. Let's see you beat up on them and let me know the results.

Piano is not the end all for the average student or parent so it is normal to have moments when the child is not ready for his lesson. It is not the teacher loosing out, but the Parent or child wasting money on loss time and energy.

I have just started to teach at a very early level and when my students have not practiced I use that time to talk or teach them things I would not have time to if they had practiced.

What is stopping you from playing classical music that will inspire them or playing name that note or play this scale or chord. Learn this riff. Here practice playing softly and strongly. Take this piece you already know, but this time play staccato or legato. Play it with broken chords instead and so on.

There is no reason to waste a course simply because the student has not practiced on that particular week.

If not practicing is an ongoing problem. Simply advise the parent and if the problem continues advise the parent there is no point in continuing since neither parent or child is ready to commit the energy needed for the course. It's quite simple really.