interpreting Handel

[weissenberg2]

When you are playing the keyboard music of G.F. Handel should you play it just like it is Bach?  

thanks in advance

[richard black]

When you are playing the keyboard music of G.F. Handel should you play it just like it is Bach?  

No. 'Cos it's by Handel.
 

PS - shouldn't it be 'interpetatatatatating' in the title?

[ramseytheii]

No - octave doublings, octave doublings, octave doublings!

Walter Ramsey

[weissenberg2]

No - octave doublings, octave doublings, octave doublings!

Walter Ramsey

I don't mean to sound like an idiot but what are octave doublings?

[quirky]

I think that when it comes to Handel you should play with all the lightness and dexterity of Bach where required by the music but to revel simply in that lightness, there is very little emotion to be found in Handel's keyboard music in comparison to Bach.

To answer your question, ocatave doublings are when say a single C is marked on the score, say in this case it is the C above middle C, you simply double it by playing the C an octave below as well as the original, in this case middle C with the C above. Just take the note and make it into an ocatave with the equivalent note and octave BELOW, never above.

Hope that helps a bit, and I think that doublings are good too, especially in the bass line to give that fuller ssound to the harmonies!

[weissenberg2]

I think that when it comes to Handel you should play with all the lightness and dexterity of Bach where required by the music but to revel simply in that lightness, there is very little emotion to be found in Handel's keyboard music in comparison to Bach.

To answer your question, ocatave doublings are when say a single C is marked on the score, say in this case it is the C above middle C, you simply double it by playing the C an octave below as well as the original, in this case middle C with the C above. Just take the note and make it into an ocatave with the equivalent note and octave BELOW, never above.

Hope that helps a bit, and I think that doublings are good too, especially in the bass line to give that fuller ssound to the harmonies!

Thank you full the suggestions. I actaully think Handel has more emotion than Bach (I can not give a reason for this I guess it is just my opinion). Since Handel is more melodious than Bach I was thinking you should try not to bring out counterpoints so much as oppose to how you would in Bach.

A couple more questions:

if there is a repeat should you add ornaments?

if there is a whole note or half note should you make that an ornament?

[ramseytheii]

"If, after observing that the contrapuntal flexibility of Bach's themes is based in all probability on his instinctive thinking in terms of multiple counterpoint which gives scope to additional voices, one compares his counterpoint with Handel's, the latter's seems bare and simple, and his subordinate voices are really inferior.

Also in other respects Bach's art is higher than Handel's.  As a composer for the theatre Handel always had the power of beginning with a characteristic and often excellent theme.  But, thereafter, with the exception of the repetitions of the theme, there follows a decline, bringing only what the editor of Grove's Dictionary would call 'trash' - empty, meaningless, etude-like broken chord figures."  

Arnold Schoenberg


I also remember reading somewhere, though I cannot remember where, reminisinces of a student of Schoenberg's from his counterpoint class at UCLA.  I think it was Leonard Stein.  In any case, Schoenberg was talking them through a Handel fugue or some such, and as he progressed through the music, he got angrier and angrier, because the counterpoint degressed from bar to bar.

I don't think Handel sounds good on the piano, to be honest, and prefer it on the harpsichord.  If however you are playing it on piano (if you must), remember those qualities of the harpsichord: the possibility of octave doublings (adding 16' or 4' strings or coupling keyboards); the small variety of timbres (stops); the brilliant and ostentatious effect of ornamentation (which is more muted on the piano); and the power of massed chords.

All those qualities go into Handel's conception, and therefore in my opinion it doesn't transfer well to the piano.  Those qualities are less important with Bach, partly because of his thorough counterpoint, partly because of the textures he uses, and also because he rarely considered pure instrumental timbre as a compositional aid, as Handel did.  Bach's music transfers better from instrument to instrument.

Walter Ramsey

[weissenberg2]

"If, after observing that the contrapuntal flexibility of Bach's themes is based in all probability on his instinctive thinking in terms of multiple counterpoint which gives scope to additional voices, one compares his counterpoint with Handel's, the latter's seems bare and simple, and his subordinate voices are really inferior.

Also in other respects Bach's art is higher than Handel's.  As a composer for the theatre Handel always had the power of beginning with a characteristic and often excellent theme.  But, thereafter, with the exception of the repetitions of the theme, there follows a decline, bringing only what the editor of Grove's Dictionary would call 'trash' - empty, meaningless, etude-like broken chord figures." 

Arnold Schoenberg

if he is saying Bach is better than Handel than I lost total respect for him.

[ramseytheii]

if he is saying Bach is better than Handel than I lost total respect for him.

Oh well!  In any case, maybe it will make you feel better to know that Beethoven insisted Handel was the greatest composer in history - greater than Beethoven himself.

Walter Ramsey

[weissenberg2]

Oh well!  In any case, maybe it will make you feel better to know that Beethoven insisted Handel was the greatest composer in history - greater than Beethoven himself.

Walter Ramsey

I had known that and now that you mention it again it does make me feel better. But I can not argue that Handel is better than Beethoven 

[ramseytheii]

For those interested in Handel, there is a fantastic vignette by Stefan Zweig in his book, "Decisive Moments in History."  It's an eccentric book of dramatized history, not fiction.

The Handel chapter is called "Handel's Resurrection," and it is about how apparently H. had a stroke in 1740 while living in London, and became partially paralyzed.  According to Zweig he taught himself to move again by pure force of will, then shortly after, received a package in the mail with the text of Messiah. 

Highly recommended reading!

Walter Ramsey

[quirky]

A couple more questions:

if there is a repeat should you add ornaments?

if there is a whole note or half note should you make that an ornament?

Ornaments really are a matter of personal taste, use only where it sounds right. If you want a more methodical method, read CPE Bachs Essay on the True Art of Playing Keyboard Instruments.

[philiplu]

whatever floats your boat!

[communist]

I also remember reading somewhere, though I cannot remember where, reminisinces of a student of Schoenberg's from his counterpoint class at UCLA.  I think it was Leonard Stein.  In any case, Schoenberg was talking them through a Handel fugue or some such, and as he progressed through the music, he got angrier and angrier, because the counterpoint degressed from bar to bar.

that sounds like a pretty ridiculous reason to get angry.