Bring Out the Melody!!!.....

[theone7]

Second post...

So my favorite pieces are those in which the pinky and sometimes the 4th play the main melody, and the thumb, 2nd, and 3rd are playing accompanying notes (Moonlight, Brahms Op. 79 no.2, Schubert Impromptu Op.90 no.3).

Problem is that my Index and Middle fingers are so strong...they seem to drown out the melody of my pinky, or at least detract from it. I try rolling my wrist to move the weight to the pinky when needed, but that isn't always easy, especially in the Brahms.

Any thoughts on how to fix this problem? 

[thalbergmad]

Not easy is it and i struggled with the Schubert for a long time before the melody was crystal clear and not drowned out with the other notes.

I am sure someone here has an excellent way of solving this, but i used to play the Schubert with my thumb and first two fingers just gently stroking the notes and almost lightly welded to the notes, with the fourth and fifth coming down from a slight elevation. There is probably nothing but practice required to sort this out and in time this will not be a problem for you and you will do it without thinking.

Equally problematic is the Saint Saens/Godowsky - The Swan, but after getting the Schubert in my fingers, this was not too testing.

You might also want to try some of the Thalberg L'art du Chant Op 70, as they tend to cover similar ground.

With work, what is difficult today is automatic tomorrow.

Thal

[landru]

I've been practicing Schubert's op. 90 no. 4 and the trio section has a melody for the 4th-5th fingers with a chordal accompaniment in the other fingers of the right hand, as well as full chords in the left that could easily overwhelm anything the outer fingers do.

The way I think I solved it was first by concentrating my hearing on the melody as I was playing it - rather than concentrating on "forcing" my 4-5 fingers to play louder. I think the "forcing" method is what comes naturally, but it probably leads to a stilted result.

Along with concentrated devotion to the melody, I made sure that my fingering for the 1-3 fingers of the right hand were very, very relaxed and my teacher and I did some relaxation exercises at the keyboard to reinforce this. Our particular method was to start the practice session by putting the 5th finger on a black key that is used in the piece, and then smoothly pivot the rest of the hand there, lightly putting the other fingers on the relevant keys on each downstroke. About 30 seconds of this relaxed my hand and I didn't "pound" the 1-3 fingers. Also, very judicious pedalling around the melody and accompaniment also helps to bring out the right stuff and "dampen" the accompaniment.

All in all, I was very pleased at the results that happened - a few months ago I would have just had an undifferentiated mess, but now it almost sounds like it should  .

And like thalbergmad says, once you've got this into your hands (and ears), it becomes automatic.

[thalberg]

Perhaps have someone else play the melody 

[quirky]

What I find works very well is to strengthen the 4th and 5th fingers. Lift your hand in the air, taughten your hand on the side of the 4th and 5th fingers and wiggle you other fingers while keeping those two tight.Then bring your hand to the keys, keeping the muscles tight and feeling the difference between the two.

This is the method I was taught a pupil of John O'Connor, a professional pianist and Beethoven expert. It really, really does work!

[lostinidlewonder]

All fingers are connected to the hand, thus all fingers can use the weight of the hand to play the note. What requires a little more control is when one part of the hand plays soft while the other plays louder. Things get even more complicated if it is the weaker fingers that need to play louder while the stronger stay more quiet. Depending on your own personal issues, these things can be trained away and practiced quite easily.

As a general test one could play a two note chord in one hand and actively try to make one of the notes louder and the other softer. How one uses the weight of the hand in one part of the hand but the fingers in the other is a coordination that needs to be practiced through excersise drill (if the touch has never been experienced before) then aplplied to your music. When playing melody always over do it when practicing, this makes it easier to maintain it when you play normally again.

[berniano]

All fingers are connected to the hand, thus all fingers can use the weight of the hand to play the note. What requires a little more control is when one part of the hand plays soft while the other plays louder. Things get even more complicated if it is the weaker fingers that need to play louder while the stronger stay more quiet. Depending on your own personal issues, these things can be trained away and practiced quite easily.

I agree. But I like to think of it more as a propulsion of the hand weight to the higher fingers. This takes some control to make sure you're not accenting the note, but if you seemingly "toss" the weight of you hand up there, it will help make the lower fingers quieter. Another thing to consider is what your hand is doing after the notes have been played. Is your hand tense, and still maintaining the effort needed to strike the key, after the note is sounding? If so, you will have undue tension in your hand which will translate to your other fingers, and cause them to play loudly. I had this problem a while back when I was playing some four note chords. After I played a chord, while my fingers were still holding the value of the note out, I would keep my hand strained with the same effort required for simply hitting the key, rather than letting it go and just using the force of gravity to keep my hand down.

Check it out, and I hope this helps (and makes sense !)

Berniano

[jepoy]

Here's what my pianist friend advised me to do when i had the exact same problem:

Play the melodic line you wish to bring out and omit everything else. Never mind the fingering, you can use 1-3 as long as the music is to your satisfaction. Keep doing this until you're happy with your playing. Then try switching to fingers 4 & 5, or whatever fingering is required by the piece. Don't use pedal. If you're playing becomes choppy, go back to your more comfortable fingering. The whole logic is to make your ear accustomed to how you want to play the melody. Over time, your 4 & 5 fingers will follow the melody you want.

Then practice the accompaniment only. First make it distinct but detached, like heavy staccatos. When you've got the notes right, reduce the to mp, p, and even pp, still like staccatos. Then start putting the two together, melody and accompaniment. If you lose the melodic line because of too many extra notes or loud accompaniment, try omitting some notes for now. The priority is the melody and it should sing above everything else.

This is an iterative process so you have to repeat from the top. And of course, you have to practice the melody more often and separate from the accompaniment. This will also make your 4 & 5 fingers stronger.

Good luck!

[jgallag]

Two ideas, similar to jepoy:

As he said, separate melody and accompaniment. My only stipulation is that the fingering _MUST_ remain intact. This is both about you hearing each part and about you physically feeling each part. Always make sure to use the same fingering.

Also, take the tempo down a few notches and play the melody line fff and super-legato, and play the accompaniment ppp and staccato. This helps you feel the proper balance of weight in the hand to get the desired effect. Obviously, you don't actually play the piece this way. It is a technique to help with voicing. (Just making sure. )

Finally, a word of advice from my teacher: No one ever complained at a jury that the melody was voiced too clearly.

[goldentone]

What I find works very well is to strengthen the 4th and 5th fingers. Lift your hand in the air, taughten your hand on the side of the 4th and 5th fingers and wiggle you other fingers while keeping those two tight.Then bring your hand to the keys, keeping the muscles tight and feeling the difference between the two.

This is the method I was taught a pupil of John O'Connor, a professional pianist and Beethoven expert. It really, really does work!

Thanks for the tip, Quirky.  John O'Conor is a favorite of mine.