Making Up for Lost Time...

[theone7]

I didn't get any replies on my last post about this, so I'm guessing I didn't explain it properly. Heres another shot:

I'm fairly advanced musically as far as my listening and understanding, and enjoy playing fairly advanced pieces. However, because of the long gap between when I used to take classes and when I started again (about 8 years in between), my technique and music theory are really bad.

How do I make up for lost time and regain the fundamentals without going back to book one pieces?

Basically, I'm the same as this student being described here:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,32428.0.html

If I try going back to basic books, I get bored and frustrated, because even though the theory is good to learn, the music sounds empty and bland to me. For an illustration, I can play some Beethoven Sonata's pretty well with enough practice, but I still don't know the whole Circle of Fifths (and I even made mistakes while playing the first 2 exercises of Czerny's First Tutor...sigh).

Any new advice?

[go12_3]

Your post should be in the Student's Board, not in the Teaching here.
 
Anyhow, work on Hanon and a more simple book of Czerny to get your fingers up to date with
technique.  And work on pieces that you have already learned everyday. Be consistant in your practicing.  All you can do is to keep trying and not give up.  I think that Beethoven Sonatas are more difficult for you to tackle right now.   How about some Bach First Inventions, and Sonatinas by Diabelli(the more simplified pieces).  Work on scales and get familiar with the keyboard.  This takes practice and effort in order for you to feel comfortable in the pieces you want to learn.  It's a step by step process.  Good luck!

best wishes,

go12_3

[jgallag]

Same as what go said, although I do not use Czerny personally. You need to get yourself a technical routine for daily practice to help strengthen your technique. Here's a start: Hanon, five a day, start at MM = 60. Bump it up one notch each time you complete the first 31 (you don't need to do the rest). Scales, four octaves, three a day (proceeding by circle of fifths, so you can practice), major and parallel minor (natural, harmonic, melodic), starting at MM = 72, major and minor triad arpeggios starting at MM = 60 (Hands Separately), Dominant 7th and Fully Diminished 7th arpeggios starting at MM = 52 (Also Hands Separately). During the Hanon, you will be focusing on playing from the knuckles, using the tip of the thumb and not the side, and exploring the proper wrist motions. During the scales and arpeggios, you will do the same, with the addition of keeping a level elbow while passing the thumb (no jerking) and guiding all of the movement with the upper arm.

For pieces, try the Bach 2-part inventions, the easier movements of Schumann's Scenes from Childhood, and maybe for a challenge Grieg's Nocturne Op. 54 No. 4. As you keep playing your technique will improve, but you have to keep at it every day. Persevere, and you'll get back to where you were.

[iroveashe]

If you find theory books frustrating and boring I doubt mindless and dull repetitions of Hanon or Czerny will help you with anything, specially considering that you mentioned two problems, technique and theory, and finger exercises won't do much about the second. If you lack motivation for learning theory it's probably because it lacks meaning for you; you could take a piece you really like and try to analyze it, so you won't be reading just a theory book, you'll be reading it trying, for example, to see in a Beethoven Sonata how he used the sonata form, and how he also broke the rules of it.

Same for technique. Instead of trying to increase your general technique for the sake of it through exercises, find a piece you love and try to improve your technique in order to achieve the best sounds with the best movements (a good teacher will be useful in this). It doesn't need to be too easy, as long as you take it in small steps being very careful not to incorporate bad habits.

You could also do scales, but again, you should have a purpose, so it's not just a matter of letting your fingers run up and down the keyboard while you read the newspaper. Work on the scale/s of the piece you're about to practice or improvise on it, with the goal of getting the 'feel' of the scale as well as a mental map of it.

[ramseytheii]

"...one of the first things I learned was that if I missed one or two days' practice, I could not hope to make it up by practicing overtime on the following days.  Practice days missed or skipped are gone forever.  One must make a fresh start..."

Emil Sauer





Walter Ramsey

[pavb2]

I'm also trying to improve technical skills, but when using scales and arpeggios which ones should I practise, for how long and in what order.

Thanks

Pavb2

[scottmcc]

I'm also trying to improve technical skills, but when using scales and arpeggios which ones should I practise, for how long and in what order.

Thanks

Pavb2

all of them, 10-20% of your total practice time, and in an order that makes sense to you, such as the order presented in your scale reference source of choice (ie hanon). 

focus on the scales and arpeggios you are encountering in the pieces you are currently working on.  it'll make it far easier to learn the piece.

others will tell you different things.

[jgallag]

I'm also trying to improve technical skills, but when using scales and arpeggios which ones should I practise, for how long and in what order.

Thanks

Pavb2

I already recommended an order: according to the circle of fifths, because you don't know it and you need to learn it. Start at C and move a perfect fifth up each time, so next G, then D. You practice them until you can play each scale for the day twice in a row perfect at the tempo you've chosen. This shouldn't take more than 20% of your practice time (as scott said) IF you choose an appropriate tempo. Always do them with the metronome, people don't like listening to uneven scales. Use Hanon as a reference for fingering, but try to figure out which key comes next in the circle of fifths (Hanon does follow it) without the help of the book. Eventually, you want to stop using the book as reference for fingering, too, as you should learn them quickly. If you do three scales a day, as I recommended, you will hit all twelve in four days. You will also surely hit the scales in your pieces this way, as you are playing all of them.

[go12_3]

I was thinking, the only way to *get ahead* is PRACTICE  ALOT.  I had to, and now I am working on pieces that are a challenge in which I need to practice some MORE!!!.   
I don't think I can ever *get ahead*   ha ha ha !   

*Go rushes to the piano and practices with all her might and strength,
       her fingers going so quickly!   Don't bother me,  I'm practicing! *   Oh, my!       

best wishes,

go12_3

[theone7]

hey gj...thanks for the outline of the technical practice routine. i've drawn up a bit of a rough schedule based on this for use everyday...it takes about 20 - 30 minutes roughly, and then i work on pieces for about an hour. Feels good to have a routine. The scales and arpeggios are already starting to make more musical sense to me (if that makes sense). This feels like it should help me get my technical ability back on track after a number of months.

Does anyone have any similar suggestions on how I can get the playing theory back? ie: lengths of notes, rests, etc. With the pieces I'm currently working on, I either have to hear them first to get a good idea of how they should sound, or take the piece down and really study (sometimes even clapping out) the time signature and rests. The scales and other exercises help with technique, but don't have any rests or notes of varying length within the same exercise.

I know this all sounds really bad, but I guess thats what forums are for. Though I kept listening to piano music, I didn't read any for almost a decade. I promise I'm not crazy...I actually have some latent talent somewhere in here...haha. Thanks for all the help.

[iroveashe]

Does anyone have any similar suggestions on how I can get the playing theory back? ie: lengths of notes, rests, etc. With the pieces I'm currently working on, I either have to hear them first to get a good idea of how they should sound, or take the piece down and really study (sometimes even clapping out) the time signature and rests. The scales and other exercises help with technique, but don't have any rests or notes of varying length within the same exercise.

You could:
-Improvise on scales (why not kill 2 birds from one shot?) and every so often stop and try to write down some phrase or motif you liked.

-Listen to a piece while reading the score, but don't worry if you can't read everything, just try to stay on the beat and notice if the notes go up and down.

-Get a music notation software, you can check how everything sounds immediately after you write it.

-Get a score and work once on rhythm without paying attention to the tones, then do it slow one note per beat but only naming the notes (in your head or out loud), figure out the chords, harmony, intervals etc.

The good thing about the last 3 is that you don't even need a piano for them.

[dr. j]

Musical growth is a developmental process that requires daily attention.  The understanding of theory and its complexities takes time and patience but is necessary in your musical growth.  So, take the time, find a theory method either online, in a class situation, or with a private teacher but make it part of your routine.  Understanding what you are playing will add so much more depth to your performances.

Dr. J - The More You Play - and Study the Theory of Music - The Better Your Day