Composers Suffering from Mental Illness

[cloches_de_geneve]

Well-documented cases:

Schumann (psychosis, attempted suicide, hospitalized)
Schubert (depression due to Syphilis, likely alcoholism, not hospitalized)
Bruckner (obsessive-compulsive disorder, obsessed with counting everything he saw or thought or heard, hospitalized)
Rachmaninoff, extended bout of depression (underwent psychoanalytic treatment)
Donizetti (psychosis due to syphilis, hospitalized)
Mahler (consulted Freud for sexual erectile dysfunction)
Hugo Wolf (psychosis, due to syphilis, hospitalized; went around the streets of Vienna proclaiming: "I am Mahler!" "I am Mahler"!)
Mussorsky (alcoholism)
Ravel (brain malfunction)

Probable:
Tschaikovsky, extended bouts of depression, possible suicide
Chopin, generalized anxiety disorder?
Wagner, narcissitic personality disorder?


Of interest: Dozens of writers and poets committed suicide. To my knowledge very few if any of the better known composers. Why would that be?

 

[mikey6]

Ravel was in a car accident in the US I think which brought about the 'brain malfunction' - I'm sure there's a diagnosis for what he got, and he died when they botched up the operation to attempt to 'fix' him, so technically it was not a natural occurence.  His asexuality is of more interest 

[scottmcc]

Ravel was in a car accident in the US I think which brought about the 'brain malfunction' - I'm sure there's a diagnosis for what he got, and he died when they botched up the operation to attempt to 'fix' him, so technically it was not a natural occurence.  His asexuality is of more interest 

when in doubt, ask wikipedia:

Illness and death
In 1932, Ravel suffered a major blow to the head in a taxi accident. This injury was not considered serious at the time.[103] However, afterwards he began to experience aphasia-like symptoms and was frequently absent-minded.[104] He had begun work on music for a film, Adventures of Don Quixote (1933) from Cervantes's celebrated novel, featuring the Russian bass Feodor Chaliapin and directed by G. W. Pabst. When Ravel became unable to compose, and could not write down the musical ideas he heard in his mind, Pabst hired Jacques Ibert. However, three songs for baritone and orchestra that Ravel composed for the film were later published under the title Don Quichotte a Dulcinée, and have been performed and recorded.[105]
On April 8, 2008, the New York Times published an article suggesting Ravel may have been in the early stages of frontotemporal dementia in 1928, and this might account for the repetitive nature of Boléro.[106] This is in line with an earlier article, published in a journal of neurology, that closely examines Ravel's clinical history and argues that his works Boléro and Piano Concerto for the Left Hand both indicate the impacts of neurological disease.[107]
This is contradicted somewhat, however, by the earlier cited comments by Ravel about how he created the deliberately repetitious theme for Boléro.
In late 1937, Ravel consented to experimental brain surgery. One hemisphere of his brain was re-inflated with serous fluid. He awoke from the surgery, called for his brother Edouard, lapsed into a coma and died shortly afterwards at the age of 62. Ravel probably died as a result of a brain injury caused by the automobile accident and not from a brain tumor as some believe.[108] This confusion may arise because his friend George Gershwin had died from a brain tumor only five months earlier. Ravel was buried with his parents in a granite tomb at the cemetery at Levallois-Perret, a suburb of northwest Paris.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Ravel

Aren't ALL composers crazy?   

[communist]

Well Rachmaninoff and Tchaikovsky were not crazy they were just depressed (not without reason). Mendelssohn did not seem like he was weird.

Anyway,

Hinton, grammatical correctional disorder

[pies]

a

[go12_3]

It's no front page news about mental illness, it has been going on for centuries.
It's just a chemical imbalance of the brain, certain neurotransmitters are not quite working right due to stress, environmental, relationships,  circumstances, jobs, financial, being in groups, genetic reasons that can be complicated to figure out.  And mental illness is not an indication of being *crazy* because people have the tendency to judge by overt behaviors.  Therefore, depression, bipolar disorder is becoming more widely apparent today because doctors are able to detect the illness more readily and help the patients with therapy and medication.    A few centuries ago, mental illness was not very well known and many people that suffered with it had to hide it or retreat to a place to be alone in order to heal and settle the mind.  Even artists suffer with some form of mental illness.  And yet, somehow, these composers, artists, and poets had a way of expressing themselves so uniquely to the world inspite of their illnesses.  

best wishes,

g012_3

[iroveashe]

Mahler (consulted Freud for sexual erectile dysfunction)

Erm, I think it was a bit more complicated than that, probably something to do with finding out that his wife Alma was cheating on him.

[cloches_de_geneve]

Erm, I think it was a bit more complicated than that, probably something to do with finding out that his wife Alma was cheating on him.

Mahler was a nervous wreck anyway; didn't prevent him to write sublime music though.

[cloches_de_geneve]

when in doubt, ask wikipedia:

Aren't ALL composers crazy?  

Dvorak or Haydn seemed pretty relaxed, ordinary people apart from their musical genius; the kind of guys you would want to have a beer or a laugh with.

[minor9th]

Scriabin: synesthesia.

[stucoy]

Scriabin: synesthesia.

Synesthesia would not be classified as a mental illness, however Scriabin would surely fit into the category of narcissistic personality disorder.

[Petter]

I think Carlo Gesualdo deserves a mention.

[iroveashe]

Mahler was a nervous wreck anyway; didn't prevent him to write sublime music though.

He had his reasons, his father was violent, he lost 9 siblings and a daughter, disastrous marriage... too often I wonder if it's not that this kind of tormented geniuses wrote magnificent music in spite of being miserable, but rather because they were miserable. If he didn't experience such extreme emotions in his life I doubt he'd have been able to translate all those extremes into music.

[argerichfan]

Elgar: quite healthy, yet sexually deprived for marrying an old, useless biddie, which today we might more appropriately consider Alice a fag-hag, hardly the wife of a great composer.  Intercourse probably happened once, sufficient to produce a daughter.  Genius deserves the best, and a better quality woman in Elgar's life should have inspired the divine man to compose music beyond our wildest dreams. 

Gerontius was forbidden fruit to Victorian Anglicans, and -chorally- Elgar never surpassed that.  Damn!

[weissenberg2]

Let's not forget the many gays

There were not that many gay composers. The ones I can think of are:

Tchaikovsky

David Diamond

Harrison (I forgot his first name)

Skeptopotamus ( )

[pies]

a

[gep]

Copland, Ravel, Bernstein, Finnissy, Bussotti, Cowell, Boulez, Wuorinen, Cage, and so on.  There are lots.

Didn't know that about Boulez, if it's true. Bernstein is a hazy case, he was married too and seems to have had a fondness for rather young males too. Omnisexual?
Maxwell Davies is a prominent one too. The there are Menotti, Barber, Britten, Sorabji, perhaps Gesualdo. Indeed there are lots.

The more important question is: does it matter

[argerichfan]

The more important question is: does it matter

Doesn't matter at ALL, and I would hope others feel that way also.

(To which you can add Rorem to the list.)

[gep]

Doesn't matter at ALL, and I would hope others feel that way also.

Exactly!
If someone happens to be gay it means he/she is capable of loving another human being.
If someone thinks such is bad then I don't want to know what you think is good!

I see that 3 ?'s give a "huh" face. I wrote three ?'s and got 
Weird...

[cloches_de_geneve]

Copland, Ravel, Bernstein, Finnissy, Bussotti, Cowell, Boulez, Wuorinen, Cage, and so on.  There are lots.

Benjamin Britten. In turn, speculations that Schubert might have been have been conclusively refuted. Ravel's case seems debated. He appears not to have wanted intimate relationships at all, because they distracted him from composing -- a bit like in Brahms' case.

[retrouvailles]

Let's not forget Szymanowski, who was a pedophile who lusted after a young Artur Rubinstein.

[minor9th]

Let's not forget the many gays

Do you actually believe that homosexuality is a mental illness? 

[ahinton]

Let's not forget Szymanowski, who was a pedophile who lusted after a young Artur Rubinstein.

Yes. Let's not ever forget Szymanowski. As if we could...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I managed to forget him

[ahinton]

I managed to forget him

Oh dear - has Alzheimer's or some similar manifestation of dementia set in that affects memory of various terms? Go seek out BBC R3's "Listen Again" facility and catch Alina Ibragimova playing his first violin concerto as broadcast on that channel yeterday...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Alina Ibragimova playing his first violin concerto

I thought Alina was a girl??

Thal

[ahinton]

I thought Alina was a girl??

Then you are at least halfway there; Alina was indeed a girl until recently and some might argue that she still looks somewhat like one, but she is a formidable musician in her early 20s and a phenomenal violinist who has given a marvellous performance of "his" - i.e. Szymanowski's (as well you understood!) first violin concerto to which you really should listen...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Alina was indeed a girl until recently

You mean she has had the Op and grown a beard?

[go12_3]

Methinks that this thread is getting side tracked....hummmm?  

[thalbergmad]

Szymanowski's (as well you understood!) first violin concerto to which you really should listen...

I managed to listen to about 6 minutes, but that was more than enough for me.

Sounds like background music to a cheap thriller.

Thal

[ahinton]

You mean she has had the Op and grown a beard?

No, Thal - I mean that she is now 23 years of age, as I'm sure you already appreciated (and your comment suggests yet again that your beard obsession seems to be unabatable, sadly for you...)

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I managed to listen to about 6 minutes, but that was more than enough for me.

Sounds like background music to a cheap thriller.

Well, that's your prerogative, of course, but your remarks do not prevent me from feeling very sorry for you for what you're missing; did you not at least appreciate the quality of the performance?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

did you not at least appreciate the quality of the performance?

I have not heard the performance you refer to, but i have heard the work in question.

It did not impress me sufficiently to want to listen to it again by other performers. There is so much 20th century music for me to listen to and not enought time to do so.

I am in "Tailleferre" mode at the moment where i shall remain for a while.

Thal

[ahinton]

I have not heard the performance you refer to, but i have heard the work in question.

It did not impress me sufficiently to want to listen to it again by other performers. There is so much 20th century music for me to listen to and not enought time to do so.

I am in "Tailleferre" mode at the moment where i shall remain for a while.

OK, so I misunderstood you in that I'd falsely assumed you to have been listening to the recent performance by Ibragimova (to which I recommmend you even more strongly than otherwise I might have done, given your self-confessed disappointment with the work concerned in whatever performance it was of which you listened to some 6 minutes only)...

For the time being, however, I will leave you in French mode and hope that what you hear therein will be "germa(i)ne" to something meaningful for you...

Best,

Alistair

[communist]

Copland, Ravel, Bernstein, Finnissy, Bussotti, Cowell, Boulez, Wuorinen, Cage, and so on.  There are lots.

well how many composers are there? I can assure you at least 600. The amount you named 9 (+ Tchaikovsky, Harrison and Szymanowski) so that is 12. There are probably more but if you lined up 600 other people there would probably be around as many gays.

I have noticed that most of the composers on that list are not very good 

Let's not forget Szymanowski, who was a pedophile who lusted after a young Artur Rubinstein.

I knew he was a pedophile but I did not know he was a gay-pedophile.

[ahinton]

well how many composers are there? I can assure you at least 600. The amount you named 9 (+ Tchaikovsky, Harrison and Szymanowski) so that is 12. There are probably more but if you lined up 600 other people there would probably be around as many gays.

I have noticed that most of the composers on that list are not very good 
I knew he was a pedophile but I did not know he was a gay-pedophile.

Erm - don't want to intrude, still less to rain on anyone's self-contrived parade, but can we hear it for Szymanowski's actual music, d'ya think? - or is that too far removed from someone's purported "topic" here?...

Best,

Alistair (who, whilst neither gay nor of pædophiliac tendencies, is something infinitely worse than either - a Scotsman)...

[pies]

a

[argerichfan]

When Alistair was young, he was Sorabji's boy toy

How crass, you're a toss-pot.  Are there any moderators here?  That post of yours would never be tolerated on Piano World.

[pk]

Its more of a disease, like if all the world would turn gay there wouldnt be any people left in 100 years, same if all people would get the plague 
good for the earth though 
sorry couldnt help it, I love gay people 

Do you actually believe that homosexuality is a mental illness? 

[go12_3]

Its more of a disease, like if all the world would turn gay there wouldnt be any people left in 100 years, same if all people would get the plague 
good for the earth though 

What are you thinking?  Gee whiz!      You want to have no people on this earth?  Then you'll be
all alone then.   This thread is turning into a mental disease !   

best wishes,

go12_3

[pk]

Eh, where did you read that 
I said it would be good for the earth,
not for humanity.
and it was all a joke btw, as the rest here already knew 

What are you thinking?  Gee whiz!      You want to have no people on this earth?  Then you'll be
all alone then.   This thread is turning into a mental disease !   

best wishes,

go12_3

[go12_3]

Eh, where did you read that 
I said it would be good for the earth,
not for humanity.
and it was all a joke btw, as the rest here already knew 

Okay, so it's a joke, but whatever.....

[birba]

We have REALLY digressed from the thread at hand.  But while we're at it, I'll add a tidbit: it has been proven that there is a much higher percentage of gay pianists than gay violinists.

[cloches_de_geneve]

I am sad that my post has been hijacked by people interested in artists' sexual orientations. Why don't you create your own post?

Thanks,
Cloches

[go12_3]

I am sad that my post has been hijacked by people interested in artists' sexual orientations. Why don't you create your own post?

Thanks,
Cloches

I agree.

[bella_brito]

We have REALLY digressed from the thread at hand.  But while we're at it, I'll add a tidbit: it has been proven that there is a much higher percentage of gay pianists than gay violinists.

In the piano class at a music summer course I did in january, 9 of 14 pianists were gays. This have to mean something... Nice people.
For some reason most of my friends are gays... and pianists.

[m]

I am sad that my post has been hijacked by people interested in artists' sexual orientations.

I wish people would mind their own business... but that's what you usually get on these Internet boards, when people have nothing more to contribute to the discussion rather than to get into dirty loundry...
Sure enough, everyone knows "IT" "for sure".

Best, M

[m]

I managed to listen to about 6 minutes, but that was more than enough for me.

I am usually not in the habit of making my conclusions (or at least post them publically) after 6 minutes of listening... even if we are talking of somebody much lesser than Szymanowski...

But again, that might be just me...

Best, M

[go12_3]

Getting back to the original thread  *go coughs and clears her throat*,  mental illness is prevalent now days, even among people everywhere, by the way.  Great musicians do suffer with bouts of depressions or mania.  During the mania episode, the euphoria occur when the energy increases , which is a good thing, to accomplish many tasks.  However, some people do experience mixed, which is the depression and mania together, and the combination of those symptoms are difficult to deal with, however, the moods can help or hinder the creativity of a task, such a composing , doing art work or literature. 

best wishes,

go12_3

[mikey6]

In the piano class at a music summer course I did in january, 9 of 14 pianists were gays. This have to mean something... Nice people.
For some reason most of my friends are gays... and pianists.

In the piano class at a music summer course I did in january, 9 of 14 pianists were gays. This have to mean something... Nice people.
For some reason most of my friends are gays... and pianists.

One of my friends was in a production of the King and I -all the guys in the cast are gay except for 2 who are married - sad for her though lol.  I don't know if it's beacuse it's more accepting for them to come out now but there does seem to be a lot of gay musicians - nothing wrong with that of course, just certainly different from as little as 20 years ago!

Back on topic, plenty of composers, especially nowadays live normal lives.  Haydn, Clementi, Handel, Mendelssohn to name a few were all revered in their life time and had no abnormal mental traits besides being geniuses.