Jacob van Domselaer

[gep]

Anyone familiar with this Dutch composer?

Jacob van Domselaer (1890-1960). Surely one of the most neglected and unknown Dutch composers. For a short while he was influenced by the Dutch movement of "De Stijl" (best known member was Piet Mondriaan), which led to his composition "Proeven van Stijlkunst" (“Etudes en forme du Stijl”, sort of), but he was quickly passed that station. His later compositions in the 1920 include his 1st (and only) Symphony (premiered 2002!!), and two Piano Concertos. The Symphony is quite quirky, very obsessive, monolithic, almost maniacal at times (shards of Mahler, some bits sound almost like coming from a Ustvolskaya Symphony!). The Piano Concertos are a bit more quasi traditional, but still quite un-Schumann, so to say.

 I stumbled on the CD’s with his Symphony and Concertos the other day (hence this post). There is also a CD with those “Proeven van Stijlkunst” (9 pieces) and Sonata no. 9 (after 1925 or so Van Domselaer wrote almost exclusively for piano, including apparently 39(!) Sonatas), which I do not have yet, but intend to buy soon. What of all that has been performed (not counting the works mentioned) I do not know, but surely not much. His name appears to be unknown on the PS site (which may say something about his obscurity).

Perhaps I’ll try and put on something from those concertos someday soon. In the meantime, I wonder if the Thalian Piano Concerto Conservation Society Group is familiar with these Concerti?

All best,
gep

[thalbergmad]

I can confirm that the scores for these concerti are not in the posession of the CPS.

They very nearly were, as I saw both for sale on the Paul van Kuik (I think i have spelt that wrong) catalogue, but I thought the price excessive and since i was unaware of the composers style, I decided not to add it to the CPS archives. However, if he is "un schumann", I might well change my mind.

The only Dutch Concerti scores i remember looking at were by Brandts Buys and i thought they would be acceptable to my romantically tuned brain. However, i have yet to hear a recording.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Being a Dutch music enthusiast, I definitely thank you for letting me know about this composer, although the name looks awful familiar, and I'll have to check and see if I indeed have anything of his or not. I am definitely interested in anything influenced by the De Stijl movement. Gep, are you familiar with Louis Andriessen's piece of the same name? That is immediately what I think of when I think of the music around that movement.

[thalbergmad]

https://www.antiqbook.com/books/bkslrsearch.phtml?su=bkslr&owner_id=kui&searchurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antiqbook.com%2Fbooks%2Fbookseller.phtml%2Fkui&Language=en&sAuthor=domselaer&sTitle=&sKeyword=&sFirstName=&Last7=off&sid=

BARGAIN

[gep]

since i was unaware of the composers style, I decided not to add it to the CPS archives. However, if he is "un schumann", I might well change my mind.

The only Dutch Concerti scores i remember looking at were by Brandts Buys and i thought they would be acceptable to my romantically tuned brain. However, i have yet to hear a recording.

Thal

I'll try to upload something of Van Domselaer, prob this weekend or so.

Brandts Buys? Cornelis Alijander, Marius Adrianus, Ludwig Felix, Henri François Robert, Jan or Johann Sebastian? All those were composers (and of one family), the rest were into music... You will notice some "intentional namegiving"!

Perheps you would like to look into the Dutch composer (German born) Julius Röntgen, he wrote some 4 concerti I think (for piano, that is).

All best
gep

[gep]

Being a Dutch music enthusiast, I definitely thank you for letting me know about this composer, although the name looks awful familiar, and I'll have to check and see if I indeed have anything of his or not. I am definitely interested in anything influenced by the De Stijl movement. Gep, are you familiar with Louis Andriessen's piece of the same name? That is immediately what I think of when I think of the music around that movement.

Please do not that I wrote he passed his "Stijl" period pretty quickly.

I know L. Andriessen's "De Stijl" (3rd part of his "opera" "De Materie"), and "De Tijd" and "De Staat". But I must say I'm not very much into his minimal/jazzy/poppy-ish music I fear....

gep

[gep]

https://www.antiqbook.com/books/bkslrsearch.phtml?su=bkslr&owner_id=kui&searchurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.antiqbook.com%2Fbooks%2Fbookseller.phtml%2Fkui&Language=en&sAuthor=domselaer&sTitle=&sKeyword=&sFirstName=&Last7=off&sid=

BARGAIN

Hmmm, good to see you have a VERY decent income...!

[thalbergmad]

Perheps you would like to look into the Dutch composer (German born) Julius Röntgen, he wrote some 4 concerti I think (for piano, that is).

I cannot believe i forgot to mention him. The piano concerto Op18 is a masterpiece.

The CD issued by Donemus should be in every concerto lovers collection.

Thal

[gep]

Here are the links to Piano Concerto no. 1 (1924) by Jacob van Domselaer
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=ABVTQL8A
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=C57VLUSO
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=QI0M7WHI

And here to Piano Concerto no. 2 (1927) by same
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=JAQW6HAO
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=UCR9H2ZE
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=OB15Z3H4

Performers:
Kees Wieringa, Piano
Noord Nederlands Symfonie Orkest
Alexander Vedrenikov

If you would want the "real" CD, I think it's still available on the DO-records label (DR001).

Do not hesitate to write what you think of this music!

Gep

[gep]

I'm taking the liberty of putting this forward again to whomever is interested...

[thalbergmad]

I say old chap, could i be a complete nuisance and ask you if you have time to post these on rapidshare.

I do want to listen to these before making a decision whether to add the scores to the CPS archives.

Ta

Thal

[gep]

I say old chap, could i be a complete nuisance and ask you if you have time to post these on rapidshare.

I do want to listen to these before making a decision whether to add the scores to the CPS archives.

Ta

Thal

I'll see what I can do (there; I aint half as bad as I look, eh? ). That would be MP3's then too I fear, or do you insist on WAV? WAV would take some time, not earlier than this weekend I'd come to that.
Can you download the Megaupload files?

прощание!

gep

[thalbergmad]

For some reason, i have huge trouble downloading from megaupload.

Does not matter what format they are in, but since i have a rapidshare account, i don't have to wait an hour between downloads.

Would be much appreciated.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Thal, I am currently downloading them and will transfer them to Rapidshare. I cannot comment on their quality, for obvious reasons, but I think it would be a great service to Dutch music if you could add these scores to the CPS archives (not sure I've heard of them), for not much Dutch music is known outside of the Netherlands.

Oh, and one more thing. I can't seem to find any info on this disk. I, however, did come up with a similar disk with the same performers, but with a recording of his 1st Symphony, which, oddly enough, puts the disk at over 80 minutes.

[retrouvailles]

OK, here is the Rapidshare reupload. You'll have to add "zip" to the end of the filename, for it was chopped off in the upload process. The last character is a dot "." for some reason.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: I have removed this upload, due to the problem with the filename. Check below for the whole set, which has the piano concertos and symphony.

[thalbergmad]

Absolutely splendid work, i say splendid.

Will listen to this tonight.

Thal

[gep]

Thal, I am currently downloading them and will transfer them to Rapidshare. I cannot comment on their quality, for obvious reasons, but I think it would be a great service to Dutch music if you could add these scores to the CPS archives (not sure I've heard of them), for not much Dutch music is known outside of the Netherlands.

Oh, and one more thing. I can't seem to find any info on this disk. I, however, did come up with a similar disk with the same performers, but with a recording of his 1st Symphony, which, oddly enough, puts the disk at over 80 minutes.

Many thanks for doing this service! I don't have a Rapidshare account, so this is making it (at least for me) quite easy!

These Concerto's come from the set including the 1st symphony (there never appeared a 2nd, though) you mention (it's a double CD at 81'30 total. I have squeezed it onto one CDr to play at my work (yep, I'm popular!) though.
There is some info on Domselaer to be found, but it's all in Dutch. If intereseted, I could translate some things. If you want, you could contact the Dofoundation, which issues (about) his music, including these CD's (there's another one with a.o. Sonata no. 9). I think Donemus issues the scores(?).
I think Van Domselaer is even more neglected than Vermeulen, and that is saying something...

Do share what you think of this music, be it good or bad!

All best,
gep

[thalbergmad]

The CPS has negotiated a reduction from Paul Kuik and purchased the 2 concerto scores for "preservation".

The CPS might use these as a bargaining tool to extract a copy of the Furwangler from Agerichfan, as the CPS wishes to avoid the 180 Euros costs for the modern edition from Ries & Erler.

The CPS will not forget the kindness shown by Gep and Retro althought the CPS still cannot open the file.

May one ask what is the best media player??

Luv

Thal

[gep]

Has (hath?) the CPS no possibillity to click on a file and "save source as"? And/or "play file with", should usually work with standard Windows media player, assuming the CPS does (doth?) work with (wis?) that...
There are quite plenty file converter tools to be freely downloaded from da Web, which can even be managed by such DigiNeandertals such as myself.

Apologise, it's Friday afternoon and I'm feeling frisky...

gep

[ahinton]

I suppose that it may be because I live in England for the time being that I cannot but think of this CPS as being the Crown Prosecution Service - which I shouldn't do, since that organisation is a typically incompetent and expensive arm of government whereas the other one actually provides a useful service and almost certainly for less money.

As you were...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Has (hath?) the CPS no possibillity to click on a file and "save source as"? And/or "play file with", should usually work with standard Windows media player, assuming the CPS does (doth?) work with (wis?) that...
There are quite plenty file converter tools to be freely downloaded from da Web, which can even be managed by such DigiNeandertals such as myself.

Apologise, it's Friday afternoon and I'm feeling frisky...

gep

I have tried gom player, pwer dvd, windows media and about 5 others, but none work. When i downloaded this, i ended up with 2 files. One which was 99mb and another which was 0 mb.

I am obviously doing something wrong here.

It is of comfort that the simplest things defeat the greatest minds.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I suppose that it may be because I live in England for the time being that I cannot but think of this CPS as being the Crown Prosecution Service - which I shouldn't do, since that organisation is a typically incompetent and expensive arm of government whereas the other one actually provides a useful service and almost certainly for less money.

Indeed, as the CPS makes no charge when it is able to provide copies for scholarly research.

We still have several works that we wish to add to our archives, notably Brassin Concerto No 2, Concerto Italien by Abbiate and the Piano Concertos of Boise, Ansorge and Jerome Hopkins that was found to have been mutilated by the New York public library.

Thal

[richard black]

Thal, did you try renaming that file with a .ZIP extension? That's what I did, then extracted 6 files (2 concertos, three movts each) from it. If you still have trouble, PM me and I'll send you the stuff via YouSendIt, a movement at a time. Failing that, I'll make you a CD and post it.

Thanks to Retro for the upload! Interesting stuff....

[retrouvailles]

Thanks to Retro for the upload! Interesting stuff....

Don't thank me, for I am merely the reuploader. Thank gep, for gep was the original contributor.

Also, can someone please enlighten me as to what this CPS is?

[thalbergmad]

Thal, did you try renaming that file with a .ZIP extension? That's what I did, then extracted 6 files (2 concertos, three movts each) from it. If you still have trouble, PM me and I'll send you the stuff via YouSendIt, a movement at a time. Failing that, I'll make you a CD and post it.

Thanks to Retro for the upload! Interesting stuff....

Strange, but that did not work last night but now it works.

I am officially listening to these works.

Thanks

Thal

[ahinton]

can someone please enlighten me as to what this CPS is?

Yes, I can; it's the Concerto Preservation Society.

Best,

Alistair

[gep]

A society so small, I fear, that it is like a condom: it contains just one member, and it even has to stand to fit in.

Oh allright, I'll leave...

[gep]

It is of comfort that the simplest things defeat the greatest minds.

Thal

So true... Only this morning I was having difficulty getting the right sock on the right foot, only to forget where I left it...
That's almost Zen!

[gep]

Interesting stuff....

Perhaps I'll find time and uoload the Symphony too. After all, it waited 81 years to get performed, so it may like some airing. It's a weird piece...It'll be Megaupload again, feel free to slip it into something more comfortable.

gep

[thalbergmad]

A society so small, I fear, that it is like a condom: it contains just one member, and it even has to stand to fit in.

The CPS has 32 valued members from at least 9 different Countires.

Some of the items in our archives would not have been possible to obtain for digitalisation were it I acting alone.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Yes, I can; it's the Concerto Preservation Society.

Best,

Alistair

Oh, ha, wow, I'm slow. I should know, for I consider myself a part of that society (unoficially at least)!

[richard black]

Thal - glad it worked.

Retro - thanks for the clarification.

Gep - thanks for the upload!

I'll have a proper listen over the weekend.

By the way, Thal, I know for sure that Toccata Classics is intending to do a disc or three of Julius Röntgen. The questions are what and when....

[thalbergmad]

By the way, Thal, I know for sure that Toccata Classics is intending to do a disc or three of Julius Röntgen. The questions are what and when....

I will be interested to see/hear this. I listened to the Op18 concerto in D again only recently and in my humble opinion it is a superb concerto, comparable to the Brahms even.

I do not recall hearing any of his solo works.

Thal

[gep]

Perhaps I'll find time and uoload the Symphony too. After all, it waited 81 years to get performed, so it may like some airing. It's a weird piece...It'll be Megaupload again, feel free to slip it into something more comfortable.

gep

Well, here it is, Megauploaded again, each movement a MP3 file. It's a weird piece...
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=S7OSR5BA
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=C3CSTJ81
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=L5B3WS4O
https://www.megaupload.com/?d=KFK4TF00

gep

BTW: CPO is doing Röntgens complete orchestral music (which means all symphonies and such, not including all concerti, of which there are 7 alone for piano...)

[thalbergmad]

BTW: CPO is doing Röntgens complete orchestral music (which means all symphonies and such, not including all concerti, of which there are 7 alone for piano...)

It is a shame that the concerti will not be included. If my litlle research notes are correct, only 3 of them have ever been typeset and published.

I have listened to the 1st Domselaer concerto thus far and parts of it appealed to me, especially in the first movement.

Ta

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I am currently downloading the Domselaer and will reupload it on to Rapidshare for those who hate Megaupload. Gep, a word of advice: if you don't like to use Rapidshare, can you please use Mediafire? That place is free, uses no captchas, and has no waiting. I am only using Rapidshare for Thal because he has an account.

[thalbergmad]

Damned decent of you old chap.

If i did not have a rapidshare account, i could never keep up with the excellent work being done on vintage erotica forum.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I have listened to the first concerto by Domselaer, and I rather enjoyed the seemingly delicate nature of it. It reminded me of a not-too-well known piano concerto by another Dutch composer, Carl Smulders, but his piano concerto was a bit more Romantic and rather reminded me of MacDowell. I can't wait to hear the other piano concerto and the symphony.

Here is my reupload, which has both disks in it (symphony and piano concertos) (to correct the filename problem from earlier):

https://rapidshare.com/files/263035083/Domselaer_-_Symphony_No._1__Piano_Concertos.zip

[gep]

Strange, but that did not work last night but now it works.

I am officially listening to these works.

Thanks

Thal

And?

What happened to the Concerto Preservation Society btw? It's gone from your signof, not because of the Money Trap Crises I hope!?

gep

PS What about George Lloyd's 4 Concerti? Any opinions you'd like to share?

[thalbergmad]

The CPS is alive and well thanks. It has been a good year with nearly 150 concerti digitalised and approx 50 already scheduled for 2010.

I have only ever heard one concerto by Lloyd and have only one score. I could not tell you which ones they are and both reside in my "Unlikely to look at again British Bollox box". I can only assume that i was not impressed at the time.

I have just finished listening to all 50 concertos from the "Golden Age of the Romantic Piano Concerto" that i got for Christmas. Regretfully, this meant i had to suffer some Schumann and Rousell on the way, but a lovely Stavenhagen, an impressive Bronsart and a stupendous Litolff improved my mood incredibly.

Yours concertingly,

Thal