How to memorize...?

[turayza]

I have huge problems with memorization. It takes me a long time to memorize a piece, and even then the memorization is shaky at best. And oftentimes I can play something without music perfectly, but during a performance I die :l
On the other hand, I'm very good a sight reading--it doesn't take much for me to learn a piece. (That doesn't help when I need to memorize stuff, though.)
Do you guys have special methods you use to memorize, or any tips for me?

[thalbergmad]

I have huge problems with memorization.

On the other hand, I'm very good a sight reading

I am completely the opposite. I can play from memory a Mozart sonata that i learned 30 years ago, but if you put a score to a Mozart sonata that i have not learned in front of me, I would struggle to play it.

Perhaps it is difficult to be really good at both, as the better your sight reading, the less you need to memorize.

Thal

[birba]

Perhaps it is difficult to be really good at both, as the better your sight reading, the less you need to memorize.

Thal
[/quote]Not really.  I'm good at both, despite being a lousy pianist.  But I do find that with age, both of them decline.  And also, I have found my perfect pitch has lowered.  I now have to adjust the tone a half-tone up.  This is all so depressing...

[birba]

But to get back to your question.  I think there's a thread here somewhere that discusses this.  Gieseking wrote a book saying it was best to memorize BEFORE even touching the piano.  I tried that a few times.  What you're doing is trying to photographically memorize.  And not everyone can do that.  I think the best thing is not to worry about it.  Play the piece with the music until you really know it well.  Then begin trying to put the music beside you on a chair and only referring to it.  Anyway, look up that thread.  There were some valid observations.

[iroveashe]

Memorize in small chunks, playing full long pieces over and over will never get you to memorize them. Being organized, disciplined and consistent helps a lot, and don't cut corners. Take a phrase or even just a bar, practice it for about 10 minutes (if the size is correct, you will have it 'under your fingers' by then), and leave it, don't play it again that day. Next day do exactly the same with the same passage, you probably won't remember it, as if you hadn't played it the previous day, but after a few repeats you'll have it under your fingers by less amount of time that it took you yesterday, but keep playing for the whole 10 minutes session. On the third day do the same and it'll coem back much much faster, and after that you should be able to play it right away. Try to memorize away from the piano too, having a mental image of the music and not relying just on your fingers helps. Memorize each hand before putting them together too, and try starting from random places of a piece, not always from the beginning.

Also try to find the relation between the notes and the meaning behind them, the same way you don't memorize words by remembering every single letter, you remember words because of what they mean to you. For this purpose theory is very useful. Try to make the process of learning and memorizing into one, it'll save you lots of time.

I can't help much more since I've never had much trouble memorizing.

[turayza]

I'll definitely try all the suggestions. Thanks!

It doesn't matter how well I can sight read...to perform, everything needs to be memorized. DX

[thierry13]

Perhaps it is difficult to be really good at both, as the better your sight reading, the less you need to memorize.

Thal
Not really.  I'm good at both, despite being a lousy pianist.  But I do find that with age, both of them decline.  And also, I have found my perfect pitch has lowered.  I now have to adjust the tone a half-tone up.  This is all so depressing...

So this actually is really possible? The same thing that happened to Richter actually is not so uncommon? BTW I'm good at both sight reading and memorizing.  Actually both are related I think. The faster I can read the piece, the faster it is commited to memory. And the faster I can read it... well the better it is for sight reading!

[birba]

What happened to Richter?

[rasteen]

For me and for many pianists I know, the key is memorizing AS YOU LEARN the piece.  My teacher when I was in Conservatory would not listen to a piece except by memory, even from the very first lesson.

Memory should be integrated into the learning process of a piece; memory takes place on at least three levels:

Tactile-you have a physical memory of how the music "feels" to your fingers; some people call this muscle memory
Auditory-the way the music "sounds"; and this is not completely alien to "playing by ear."
Cognitive-analyzing the music-it's structure, harmony,form, etc. ;some people with photographic memory "see" the music as it plays.

Most people are stronger in one area of memory than another; but by memorizing as you learn the music (as opposed to memorizing it after you can play it), it forces us to memorize, at least to some degree, on all three levels; this is the most complete and "safest" type of memory.

If we only memorize using one level of memory, then a mistake can throw us...we forget how a piece "feels" or how it "sounds" or "what comes next." If we have memorized on all levels as we learned the piece, the memory is integrated into the music, and if we have a finger slip, or forget under pressure what something sounds like, it is far less likely to throw us.

After learning (and memorizing) a piece, I feel that the best "test"of your memory is found in "ghost" or "shadow" practicing; in this process,  you slowly, "play a piece" by touching your fingers to the tops of the keys as normal without actually depressing them; this way, you tactilely practice, but your minds "ear" must hear the notes, and your cognitive processes must kick in to supply "what comes next." remember, this should be done slowly to allow the process to truly work;

These suggestions have been helpful to me and my students and colleagues; I hope something here will also be of some help to you.

All the best....

Ron 

[birba]

And I would also suggest to go through the piece slowly WITHOUT touching the keys and seeing in your mind's eye the keyboard as you are "playing" it.  I have found many times, a technical passage that was never clean, was because I hadn't fully memorized it by rote.  That is, note by note.

[turayza]

Goodness. Okay, I guess I have my work cut out for me XD Memorizing is painful sometimes ): It's always the last thing I'm able to do, and even then I'm never solid.

Thanks for the advice, everyone. (:

[jazzyprof]

After learning (and memorizing) a piece, I feel that the best "test"of your memory is found in "ghost" or "shadow" practicing; in this process,  you slowly, "play a piece" by touching your fingers to the tops of the keys as normal without actually depressing them; this way, you tactilely practice, but your minds "ear" must hear the notes, and your cognitive processes must kick in to supply "what comes next." remember, this should be done slowly to allow the process to truly work;

That's an excellent idea.  I'm going to try it right away!

[thierry13]

What happened to Richter?

He said his perfect pitch had gone one half-step too low and that is why he played with sheet music, to not play a piece in the wrong tonality to the public. Zoltan Kocsis who knew him well said it was not really possible and that it was an excuse to not admit his memory wasn't as good as it was, but if you have the same problem then Richter's story was probably true!

[jgallag]

Good advice in here, iroveashe practically quoted Bernhard for you.

I agree with rasteen, especially about memorizing as you go, though my teacher won't let me because my technique still needs fixing and she doesn't want me to memorize bad movements. I would like to add (though it is elsewhere in this topic, but I want to keep it with rasteen's info) the two visual types of memory: memory of the score and being able to see your hands play the music in your head. Not for the faint of heart.

Also, it has been said (I believe in the Chang book) that you cannot perform a piece truly well until you have performed it three times. Performance experience puts into sharp relief what parts of the work you don't truly know and need to revisit. So you need to practice performing. You also need to practice memorizing. I'd bet that you feel so good about your sight-reading that you even do it for fun, and in doing so become even better at sight-reading. So you practice your sight-reading, but you don't practice memorizing or performing.

One last thing: you need to overcome your fear of forgetting. My favorite juggling book says that drops are always a positive. They are a sign of progress. After all, if you'd already learned the pattern, you wouldn't be dropping, in which case you wouldn't be learning either. So it is with memory. Forgetting is a valuable opportunity to revisit the learning process for a passage and further explore it. Remember that memory has three parts: acquisition of information, storage of information, and retrieval of information. Just because you can't retrieve it yet doesn't mean it's not there. If you do forget, though, do not try and stimulate your memory into recalling it. Relearn it. This will strengthen your memory and prevent you from replacing your correct memory with one that has wrong notes.

[turayza]

Ah...perform three times... :l /sigh.
Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll definitely put them to good use.
I was talking to my music camp teacher today and he told me to try practicing with my eyes shut! (And to sing the different voices, but I'm not too sure about that one.) I actually think memorizing will be fun (:

[rasteen]

Excellent points by jgallag especially in regard to practicing performing. There is really no substitute for performing as a learning process. Schedule yourself to play your pieces for friends, family, other students...anyone you can convince to sit long enough and listen. Make sure you create a quiet, undisturbed atmosphere where you really perform the music.  Then evaluate as mentioned by jgallag. I wholeheartedly agree that three "pre" performances before a "main" performance is ideal. I played my last recital four times before playing it at the university. Especially necessary for me as I do not play full recitals regularly at this point in my life.

The visual practice in the mind is a challenging and intriguing method. I am not as adept at this as I would like to be. A friend of mine who was at Juilliard years ago said that Rosina Lehvinne would use this method. Another student from there said she actually would lie down with a cloth over her eyes the afternoon before a recital and visualize all her music.  I don't know if that is true, but it sure sounds like a good idea...IF you are good at that type of memory.  I would think that if you were not, it could create mental anxiety right before performance...and that is not good.

Be sure to capitalize on your best memory strength...then strive to incorporate the others as much as possible.  I think it is good memory "insurance!"

[dora96]

Memorizing the music scores are very hard and time consuming. However, if I determine to memorize and play it over and over again. The piece will be memorized. My most problems are how to make it permanent. I have a set repertoires virtually play them to death. Chopin Nocturne Op9 no.1. Beethoven sonata pathetic and other bits and pieces. If I don't practice them everyday. The memory of these pieces will get weaker.

If I play one note wrong, mostly I can't continue without starting from the beginning or from phrase. The worse of all, I can play them through at home, but if I have to go somewhere, different piano or different environment, my brain seems not functioning. For the sake of embarrassment, I rather look at the score instead of play by memory.

I just wonder most concert pianists have to perform hours. How do they remember them all without losing coherence. Like Lang Lang performs concert in stadium holding thousand and thousand  people watching him. How does he maintenance such a fabulous concert and interesting interpretation. Regardless how other peoples' comment about him. If I can make a wish, I want to have his brain.   How to get this sort confident and memorization  at all time?

[iroveashe]

Memorizing the music scores are very hard and time consuming. However, if I determine to memorize and play it over and over again. The piece will be memorized. My most problems are how to make it permanent. I have a set repertoires virtually play them to death. Chopin Nocturne Op9 no.1. Beethoven sonata pathetic and other bits and pieces. If I don't practice them everyday. The memory of these pieces will get weaker.

Forget the piece, neglect it completely for a few months, and then re-learn it as if you've never seen it before, without cutting corners. If you do that process a few times they should be learned forever.

If I play one note wrong, mostly I can't continue without starting from the beginning or from phrase. The worse of all, I can play them through at home, but if I have to go somewhere, different piano or different environment, my brain seems not functioning. For the sake of embarrassment, I rather look at the score instead of play by memory.

That's because you only rely on hand memory. It used to happen to me and other symptoms are:

• After you memorized the piece you try to play it hands separate and you get lost pretty fast
• If you start thinking about what you're playing you get disoriented.
• If you try to write down the music into a score only by memory, with no help of the original score or playing the piece, you'll have a lot of gaps and bits missing, if you're able to write it down at all after the first few bars.

Repeated note groups, practicing in small chunks, practicing without warming up, and of course knowing harmonically what you're doing will help you solve that problem.

All of this has been said over and over though, so I'd recommend you to look through older posts and read people's advices.

[kay3087]

Another way, which may be helpful to those who are experienced sight-readers, is to take the score somewhere quiet, sit down, and study one page for 5 or 10 minutes; to memorize as much as you can. Begin with very easy pieces, and work towards more pages, or more complex music. The Minuet in G major from AMB's notebooks, the exposition of K. 545, etc. are nice pieces to start with. And then—without the score—play as much as you remember. Many of my teacher's students were pleasantly surprised at how much they could play.

[dora96]

Honestly, I have tried different methods for the most effective memorization of music score. Like you guys suggest that above. Iroveashe you have mentioned that to write it down. Do you mean to write down the entire score down on the music staff ? what do you mean by " write down ". I find that it is impossible to write everything down or knowing harmonically. Can you give me more specific example ? The most problem is my left hand. It always let me down.

However, some music is very hard to memorize particular Chopin Nocturne, Mozart sonata. Most Romantic period is hard to memorize. I have tried to take the score away and look at it for a while. But if I don't  run through each day, It becomes mental block.

Most instrument like violin, flute clarinet people play these instruments, they use the music score is fairly acceptable. But if pianist uses the score which consider unprofessional. Just look at the orchestra, virtually very rare for pianist will use the score during piano concerto. They have to memorize for whole program. How nervous racking is it? 

[iroveashe]

Iroveashe you have mentioned that to write it down. Do you mean to write down the entire score down on the music staff ? what do you mean by " write down ". I find that it is impossible to write everything down or knowing harmonically. Can you give me more specific example ?

I mean taking a blank music sheet, and reproduce the score entirely without the aid of an instrument or the original score. For example, I went on vacations some months ago, and since i couldn't play piano, whenever I had the chance I practiced Bach's 4th Invention in my mind, and then to test my memory I grabbed a pencil and a sheet of paper and started writing the score; I made a few mistakes but eventually I wrote it all down.

[birba]

He said his perfect pitch had gone one half-step too low and that is why he played with sheet music, to not play a piece in the wrong tonality to the public. Zoltan Kocsis who knew him well said it was not really possible and that it was an excuse to not admit his memory wasn't as good as it was, but if you have the same problem then Richter's story was probably true!

I think probably Kocsis is right.  A half tone doesn't make that much difference when you are playing by memory.  But I used to find it impossible to play a piano that was exactly a half-tone sharp or flat.  Now I have no problem!
I also find that what I have learned by memory has stayed with me.  It's learning new music by memory that I find difficult.  That's why I always tell young pianists to learn as much music as they can in the first 20-30 years of their career.  It's theirs for the rest of their lives!

[mtierra]

There are some good suggestions here, one that wasn't mentioned that I find helpful is to play te piece silently -- only touching and not depressing the keys. This engages your own sound memory before the key is depressed and of course, it is down slow but you develop greater security. 

[gorucan]

My best trick is:
Just don´t try to play some parts without notes and then look in a bit etc...
no! play WITH notes 120% concentrated, listen to every note and keep repeating WHOLE piece until you have feeling that you have "conquered it"

then it`s safe to put notes aside 

good luck

[dora96]

How many piece of music to memorize as a professional pianist ? I feel that I am going to lose my memory when someone is watching me or listening to me. I did make myself as often as possible to play without music in front people. It is getting better to focus. But someday are perfect, someday just can't play without looking at the scores. Plus different piano except my own piano my memory also will be diminishing. It is very frustrated no matter how many repetitions, it is so easy to lose concentration and continuity. why my memories always betray me ?

I am trying to write the music down, but like a sonata it is impossible to write every down for 30 pages. The problem I will never know what measure will fail me. I have tried to perform Beethoven Pathetique Sonata. I play it so many time for every concert. Last week I played it just one section I couldn't  remember. I had to stop and I couldn't  recovery. It was a nightmare so embarrassing. It has knocked my confidence a bit. 

[gorucan]

I see you really have problem here.
And i think i know exactly what could help you. It is detailed studying of harmony and learning Solfeggio to practice your hearing, and if possible train special exercises to get "absolute hearing"

this will be your new very very powerful "tool" to use the other part of your brain to memorise stuff, and it will be with ears and not with remembering like "ok now those keys with those fingerings etc."
After you will be thinking like that but you will just "know" what is right, because your inner hearing and your ears will tell you.

[rachfan]

Generally, the older one gets, the more difficult it is to memorize music.  (Like me for example. ) For those who don't have to worry about that yet, it's important when memorizing to rely on at least two, not one method.  

Too many pianists get the music "into their fingers", but during performance, tactile memory alone is usually the first kind to fail.  So it needs to be reinforced by another method.  For example, visual memory can be added, that is, knowing and watching the patterns on the keyboard as the piece is being played.  (If you a one of the very few lucky enough to have photographic memory, that's another form of visual memory.)  If you watch a Jorge Bolet performance on video, you'll notice that his eyes are glued to the keyboard.  

Or, someone with good pitch sense (it can be relative pitch, doesn't need to be perfect pitch), might choose aural memory.  But there again, aural memory must be reinforced by a second method.  

Another person might spend productive time studying scores away from the piano to analyze the melodic lines, strategic harmonies, intervals, chord progressions, etc. while selecting logical "landmarks" to use as restart points during a memory lapse.  Analytic memory is great; but it too needs a second method of reinforcement.

Everyone is different and will have natural preferences for memory aids.  The bottom line is that of the four--tactile, aural, visual and analytic memory--it's best to team up at least two methods. Then if one fails, the other can ensure continuity of playing until the other recovers.  

[dora96]

This is very interesting thread. I think it is everyone problem not only trying to memorize music score. Even though academy stuff or even bible verses. If I don't study them all the time, I am sure that I will lose it.
 
Not every piece I have memory problem, the short piece like Schumann kinderscene op 15.  Chopin waltz, some famous masterpiece  are okay. Some music are quite comfortable to memorize because they are short, and beautiful and attractive to perform. Sonata, Baroque like Bach, Romantic are very hard. Sonata has three section first, second, third movement. To play well and memorize them with continuity  is really hard. At this stage, I only can remember 2 sonata so far after learning and playing for years. I feel very pathetic. I regret that I did not develop the habit of memorizing music score from very early age. I am very good at sight reading, I can learn and play most  music in my level  as long as I have the score.

[gruffalo]

But to get back to your question.  I think there's a thread here somewhere that discusses this.  Gieseking wrote a book saying it was best to memorize BEFORE even touching the piano.  I tried that a few times.  What you're doing is trying to photographically memorize.  And not everyone can do that.  I think the best thing is not to worry about it.  Play the piece with the music until you really know it well.  Then begin trying to put the music beside you on a chair and only referring to it.  Anyway, look up that thread.  There were some valid observations.

this method is great, but you are not necessarily trying to memorize photographically. this is one of several ways we can memorize. I have been using something similar to Gieseking's method successfully for the last 4 years. I do not do it away from the piano, but i do not play any passage on the piano until it is memorized. I started by taking a bar or two hands separately and memorized them in my mind and then shut the book and then played and not using the score again and the score will only be used from hereon to observe and then memorize dynamics etc. Eventually you should be able to memorize whole lines or half a page in one go. depends how far you want to take it.

i do not think it is necessary to learn a whole piece away from the piano, but to make sure we are using as much of our brain as possible before the muscle memory kicks in.

the way we memorize is first to recognize our strengths in our memory. For instance, some people have good photographic memory. In my case, i have good aural memory (possibly due to perfect pitch), so my main way of memorizing is to study a particular bar and listen to it in my mind. I am also trying to memorize photographically. Once i have demonstrated that i can play it through 7 or 8 times without mistake (must make sure no mistake is made otherwise the mistake will become a habit VERY easily), i then analyze the harmony (another form of memory). My photographic and analytical memory is poor, but nontheless it is there in some form and can be used.

this is a very basic summary of my process and it can take quite a while to develop. The rewards i have personally encountered by using this process are:

1. No more fumbling around for notes ever. I find them instantly.

2. Technical obstacles become slightly easier and you are able to focus on the raw technical aspect.

3. I have not had a single memory slip during my time learning with this method.

4. I get my head round the structure of a piece much quicker and the musical message of a piece becomes quicker to decipher.

One thing that has been affected is my sight reading. I used to learn everything by just playing it through with the score until i could play it without and so i was always reading scores and i was fairly good at sight reading because of this. My sight reading is now quite bad, but i believe that if i practiced sight reading (separately with pieces that i wasnt studying) a lot whilst using this method, i would have been able to maintain my sight reading skills.

hope some of this helps. if anyone has questions, feel free to PM me.

[sashaco]

While I am not as structured in my practice as some respondents to this question, I'll offer my two cents.

I find that if I use my ears to teach my fingers, rather than the reverse, I get more solid results than when I allow essentialy passive tactile memory to take over first.  I could perhaps try extending this back one more level, which seems to be what people are doing who memorize directly from the score without the instrument.

One very comforting way to memorize, whatever your method, is to start from the end of a piece and work back to the beginning.  Then as you play from memory, you find yourself moving into ever more familiar territory, which builds confidence.  One of the chief causes of memory lapses is lack of confidence, or nerves, and this method can reduce those problems at least a bit.

[pflander]

Memorize the hands separately!  You will find great security if you practice each hand by memory from the beginning to the end of the piece. 

[inspired_pianist]

I'm now starting to play by memorizing and all of those posts on this topic I found very useful. I have only been playing the piano for 4 years and am now doing Grade 5. However, I never really had a problem with memorizing, although I only performed once by memory. For the thing is, although I have been sightreading almost all of this time(which I hated at first), I found that when I am sightreading something new, I always try to remember as much of it photographically in my mind so that if for any reason I was to slip I would still be able to keep going forward. I just don't know, it must be a gift.

What I found out(and found it to be rather amazing)was that as you get higher in the grades for theory, since you would have been studing form and structure of lots of music, it is easier for you to memorize something new(especially if you are at a higher grade in theory than in practical like me; I'm at grade 6 in theory). I also realized that the better you are with theory you should be able to memorize more quickly than if you are higher in practical (and are really good at it) and you are at a lower level in theory and average at it.

For you see as I mentioned before I am at grade 5 in practical and am able to play pieces which are more difficult than I'm supposed to be playing. Anyway, for the past three weeks I have been learning Arabesque #1 by Debussy so that I could perform it in the next one and a half months. When I first looked at it, I said this doesn't look two hard , however what I anticipated to be easy for when I reached the part where there wa triplets against quavers I almost began to cry:'(.

I ended up having to learn the triplet part by heart first and after quickly reviewing how the left hand looked like and analysed this section I was able to memorize this in no time.

I have now memorized almost the whole piece now (I have about 6 more bars to go). It wasn't all of that hard after all after analysing the form, structure and repeated patterns and I feel so proud of myself . However, to memorize this required a lot of patience and practice.

[turayza]

My memorization is definitely improving, probably because I am practicing more heheh. I went through a very frustrating year where nothing I felt was solidly memorized stayed that way during competition or performance, but I've put all these tips to good use 
It is so irritating for me to memorize music because I can memorize almost everything else very easily (ie. history, math equations, spanish vocabulary) but a piece is less visual than all of those. Also, I have almost no knowledge of theory even though I've been playing for eleven years (sad, horrifying, yes I know) so I can't really analyze music to aid in memorization.

[iroveashe]

Also, I have almost no knowledge of theory even though I've been playing for eleven years (sad, horrifying, yes I know) so I can't really analyze music to aid in memorization.

That's your answer then, learn theory. Great pianists don't remember frillions of pieces because they have a great memory for learning random notes in any order, they just found the meaning behind the notes. How? Could be in different ways, one is with theory, the same way you know grammar rules; and the other could be making up a story, much like Bernstein does here. But it's not one or the other of course, the more resources you have for remembering, the less you'll forget.

If you haven't already, read Chang's book part about memory https://www.pianofundamentals.com/book/en/1.III.6.13

[pthebig]

i don't have this problem, i have an absolute pitch, so after some weeks i can nearly listen to my play in my brain, also in sight reading i don't have any problems, i just try to imagine the sound of this play...

[mike_lang]

.

[jbmorel78]

I have huge problems with memorization. It takes me a long time to memorize a piece, and even then the memorization is shaky at best. And oftentimes I can play something without music perfectly, but during a performance I die :l
On the other hand, I'm very good a sight reading--it doesn't take much for me to learn a piece. (That doesn't help when I need to memorize stuff, though.)
Do you guys have special methods you use to memorize, or any tips for me?

Dear Turayza,

I don't think that there are any shortcuts, but the best advice that I can give you is to be as observant as possible when you practice music.  Notice everything: motives, harmonies, dissonances, resolutions, climax, anticlimax, texture, key areas, melodic contour... and so forth.  Over time in practicing your piece in small sections (!) and then larger sections, you will come to know the piece better and better.  This is the most organic way for learning a piece... after a period of time, you will notice that it is memorized.

When you have recurring trouble spots, it is essential that you analyze them and consciously take in as much detail as possible about them.  If there is a similar passage found elsewhere, know what is the difference!

There are some exercises that are very good for pointing out weak spots, i.e., passages that one does not know as thoroughly as one thinks:

1) Very slow practice... this way, the tactile memory cannot engage so easily, since it is based much on reflex.

2) Hands separately (also, voices separately, not changing the fingering)

3) Notating the piece from memory

Finally, you will find in performance that it helps to think in gestures, and to always know where your phrase leads.  Many "blackouts" are the result of mental dissection, i.e., "oh dear, what is the next note?"  Think of the whole, feel the harmony, lead your listeners toward the point, and enjoy!

Very best,

Jean-Baptiste Morel

[learner of liszt]

The way I memorize is to think of the relationships between the notes. Not like memorizing chords, but more like remembering patterns and the ways they are changed throughout a particular section (this really helps in J.S. Bach, considering how many repeated patterns he used!). Not sure how well I explained this, but I hope it helped.

[brahmslover]

Adding more to this, as you may already noticed, there are lots of methods for memorizing. But the best one would be the one that works for you. Try them all and see which one works the best. For example, analyzing the harmonic structure may work for some but not for others (especially me )

What I like to do:
Before I sightread/learn a piece of new music, I like to listen to recordings while study the scores, take a mental note on the overall form and plan.
After having an aural picture of what it should sound like, play it and memorize chunk by chunk. After you have it memorized, practice, practice, and practice.
Then upon achieving proficiency of execution, add your own interpretation.

Hope it helps.

[mila5405]

Do you really have to play without the score? I dont think so. I you play better with a score its okay.
/Mike

[dogperson]

This is a very old topic, so i hope no one minds the resurrection.     a little advice ?  My piano teacher has been discussing with me the difference in wrote memorization versus wrote with analysis as a part of memorization.... looking for trends, 'safety' nets to land on in case there are memory lapses, learning a piece from the end, etc.  I actually do well with the wrote memory, and can mentally picture page turns, but it is  embedded in short term memory only, and there are not 'safety nets' for memory failure.

I want to develop the analytical, long-term memory... and understand the concept in theory only.  I have read these old posts which discuss aural memory but don't seem to discuss developing safety nets.  Any thoughts?   Do you use this?

[pianogoals]

I believe a simple way to memorise a piece would be to develop a practice routine that involves slow deliberate practice, separately and together, then at the correct speed. I think a some steps you could follow would include:

1. Practice one page of the piece slowly and separately starting with the right hand, including musical details such as dynamics and phrasing. Repeat with the left hand.
2. Practice that same page of the piece together slowly and in different dotted rhythms to develop even playing.
3. Practice the same page at the correct speed, following the metronome like clockwork, including all the musical details.
4. Play the same page together, now for memory. After a few weeks it should be part of your muscle memory.
5. Repeat the process for the next pages until the piece is completed. Each time you play the piece for memory, accumulate the previous page(s) you memorised from before.
6. Lastly, play the whole piece for memory, including all the musical details at the correct tempo using the metronome.
7. Try to play the piece in all difficult conditions to increase confidence and to reduce nerves in examinations and recitals.

[dogperson]

I believe a simple way to memorise a piece would be to develop a practice routine that involves slow deliberate practice, separately and together, then at the correct speed. I think a some steps you could follow would include:

1. Practice one page of the piece slowly and separately starting with the right hand, including musical details such as dynamics and phrasing. Repeat with the left hand.
2. Practice that same page of the piece together slowly and in different dotted rhythms to develop even playing.
3. Practice the same page at the correct speed, following the metronome like clockwork, including all the musical details.
4. Play the same page together, now for memory. After a few weeks it should be part of your muscle memory.
5. Repeat the process for the next pages until the piece is completed. Each time you play the piece for memory, accumulate the previous page(s) you memorised from before.
6. Lastly, play the whole piece for memory, including all the musical details at the correct tempo using the metronome.
7. Try to play the piece in all difficult conditions to increase confidence and to reduce nerves in examinations and recitals.

This only establishes WROTE memory by following this, not safety nets, and not long-term memory.  I would like to understand how performers develop safety nets for when memory fails.

[josh93248]

This only establishes WROTE memory by following this, not safety nets, and not long-term memory.  I would like to understand how performers develop safety nets for when memory fails.

Funnily enough, that drivel is the closest that guy has come to actually engaging with this forum.

[outin]

This only establishes WROTE memory by following this, not safety nets, and not long-term memory.  I would like to understand how performers develop safety nets for when memory fails.

I'm not a performer, but if you really want to understand how some pros do it read this book. Not only does it deeply analyze one learning process, but also has a lot of interview information about well known pianists methods:
https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Perfection-Performance-Expertise-Applications/dp/0415651026

I seem to use many of the same strategies as the professional pianist examined in the study, but of course not to such sofistication.

Auditory memory and some rote memory tend to develope almost on their own, but even together they are not reliable enough for me to get through pieces, I lose concentration too easily. To secure the memorization I need to add more awareness of what I am doing, sometimes to the level of individual notes. It's a gradual process for me and when learning pieces it works best to first form a "skeleton" of the whole and then add more details and deeper understanding to it. It's called holistic learning and it's how I learn.

Recently I have used a very specific method to increase the reliability of my memory. I do this usually at the stage when I can somehow play the piece through at least partly from memory already:

I divide the piece into phrases or some other logical few measure snippets and then cyckle them in random order during a few day span. Work on one only as long as I feel I am alert to what I am doing and then go to another. Use the score to check anytime I feel it's necessary.  If necessary I will use HS or other tools to get these snippets more secure. Play the whole piece occasionally and then continue working on snippets especially with the parts that didn't feel as secure.

The great thing about this is that I can still add to the snippets also technically or musically because I already have an image of they role in the whole piece. So I am not "just" memorizing but working on polishing more at the same time. I do often end up analyzing why I am doing something in a specific way, which greatly enhances the memory. If I know why I am doing what I am doing then I can more easily dig out the details from memory.

[dogperson]

I'm not a performer, but if you really want to understand how some pros do it read this book. Not only does it deeply analyze one learning process, but also has a lot of interview information about well known pianists methods:
https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Perfection-Performance-Expertise-Applications/dp/0415651026

I seem to use many of the same strategies as the professional pianist examined in the study, but of course not to such sofistication.

Auditory memory and some rote memory tend to develope almost on their own, but even together they are not reliable enough for me to get through pieces, I lose concentration too easily. To secure the memorization I need to add more awareness of what I am doing, sometimes to the level of individual notes. It's a gradual process for me and when learning pieces it works best to first form a "skeleton" of the whole and then add more details and deeper understanding to it. It's called holistic learning and it's how I learn.

Recently I have used a very specific method to increase the reliability of my memory. I do this usually at the stage when I can somehow play the piece through at least partly from memory already:

I divide the piece into phrases or some other logical few measure snippets and then cyckle them in random order during a few day span. Work on one only as long as I feel I am alert to what I am doing and then go to another. Use the score to check anytime I feel it's necessary.  If necessary I will use HS or other tools to get these snippets more secure. Play the whole piece occasionally and then continue working on snippets especially with the parts that didn't feel as secure.

The great thing about this is that I can still add to the snippets also technically or musically because I already have an image of they role in the whole piece. So I am not "just" memorizing but working on polishing more at the same time. I do often end up analyzing why I am doing something in a specific way, which greatly enhances the memory. If I know why I am doing what I am doing then I can more easily dig out the details from memory.

Thanks so very much for your insights and the book recommendation.. I have just bought the Kindle version, and am looking forward to it, as well as trying the snippet approach.  I have been working on a Mozart sonata forever, and my teacher is encouraging me to work on memorizing it, as a way of improving my performance.  Wrote memory alone doesn't work for this, so I want to improve my skills and build a more analytical approach to the process so that the memory is more ingrained. 

Thanks again.!

[outin]

Thanks so very much for your insights and the book recommendation.. I have just bought the Kindle version, and am looking forward to it, as well as trying the snippet approach.  I have been working on a Mozart sonata forever, and my teacher is encouraging me to work on memorizing it, as a way of improving my performance.  Wrote memory alone doesn't work for this, so I want to improve my skills and build a more analytical approach to the process so that the memory is more ingrained. 

Thanks again.!

I might add that after I feel these snippets are secure and if it's a longer piece I often add them gradually together to longer sections to practice the same way.
If I want to further secure my memory after finishing all this I will make new LESS logical snippets. Especially for tricky parts this will force me into learning them without relying so much on my auditory memory.

[coherence]

iroveashe pretty much nailed it 6 years ago -- space out your practice sessions, clear your mind in between them so you're not just recalling something that's already right at the top of your head, and build up a mental structure of the piece where all the little bits are related to each other. I've written about the first two in my articles on spaced repetition and interleaved practice.

The last thing is a great thing to do away from the piano -- analyze the sheet music or listen to other performances, and figure out how all the parts fit together. This helps you do what's called "chunking" in psychology research, like how expert chess players can memorize a chess position at a glance because they don't see "white bishop on b5, black knight on c6, black king on e8" but "the black queen's knight is pinned in the usual way." Novices generally learn things as a large number of discrete items, while expert knowledge is made up of densely connected webs.

[outin]

iroveashe pretty much nailed it 6 years ago -- space out your practice sessions, clear your mind in between them so you're not just recalling something that's already right at the top of your head, and build up a mental structure of the piece where all the little bits are related to each other. I've written about the first two in my articles on spaced repetition and interleaved practice.

The last thing is a great thing to do away from the piano -- analyze the sheet music or listen to other performances, and figure out how all the parts fit together. This helps you do what's called "chunking" in psychology research, like how expert chess players can memorize a chess position at a glance because they don't see "white bishop on b5, black knight on c6, black king on e8" but "the black queen's knight is pinned in the usual way." Novices generally learn things as a large number of discrete items, while expert knowledge is made up of densely connected webs.

Very well said. The aim should always be this and that's also the reason why my "method" works for me. What actual methods one uses to achieve the above is best tailored to everyone's individual needs. I looked at you links and I think they (and an app like yours) might help someone who finds it difficult to naturally practice this way and needs to be structured into it.

BTW. One reason why so many people have learned to study in the way your describe as blocked practice is that much of what we studied in school for tests was completely useless information and was best forgotten after the tests...I see changes in the school system now (at least here) where this aspect has been taken more seriously, but in my days the "wrong way" really was the most beneficial, since it made it possible to get through school with very little time used for actual studying.

[dogperson]

I'm not a performer, but if you really want to understand how some pros do it read this book. Not only does it deeply analyze one learning process, but also has a lot of interview information about well known pianists methods:
https://www.amazon.com/Practicing-Perfection-Performance-Expertise-Applications/dp/0415651026

 

Outin, thanks so much again for your insights and the book recommendation.  I am about 50% finished with the first read and find it to be exactly what I needed.. not only for memorization but more effective practice.  The chapter on learning Bach's "Italian Concerto" was particularly insightful.