Henselt Concerto in F minor - for SOLO piano

[bradley]

Hi all

I was reading the other day in a book about the piano repertoire (I can't remember which one - there are so many), and came across something which said something to the effect that Henselt used to perform his F minor concerto, but unaccompanied (much like, for example, Tausig's arrangement of Chopin E minor concerto). It went further to say that there was in fact a published score of the solo version that he played. Is this true? I love this concerto and have been wanting to learn it, but have felt it's not really worth it (it's quite difficult), as there is not much opportunity to perform it due to the lack of availability of the orchestral parts. However, if there is a SOLO version, I would indeed be very interested. Can anyone help?

Bradley

[retrouvailles]

Well, there is the solo version with the orchestral cues and interludes inserted in where the piano does not play (and sometimes in addition to the already fiendishly difficult solo part). It is pretty common to see this sort of thing in early romantic rep. There is no change to the solo part, basically. It isn't done at all like the Tausig version.

[antichrist]

......it's quite difficult...

Bradley

I remembered its much harder than rach 3?
is that the only concerto of henselt

[birba]

Not that this has to do with the Henselt, but who HAS the Chopin-Tausig concerto in e minor?  Never heard of it.   Sounds wild!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Not that this has to do with the Henselt, but who HAS the Chopin-Tausig concerto in e minor?  Never heard of it.   Sounds wild!

Attached below, though the scan has the movements in reverse order.

It's not really what the original poster was asking for, but for reference I've also attached the Henselt in 2-piano form (see next post)

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Henselt (2-piano)

[birba]

Attached below, though the scan has the movements in reverse order.

It's not really what the original poster was asking for, but for reference I've also attached the Henselt in 2-piano form (see next post)

Thanks Ronde!  What it is actually, is the exact solo piano with the orchestra transcribed for piano.  I thought it was going to be something fancy and "enhanced".  I like these reductions, though.  I have a similar thing for Mendelssohn but not as playable.

[allthumbs]

Attached below, though the scan has the movements in reverse order.

It's not really what the original poster was asking for, but for reference I've also attached the Henselt in 2-piano form (see next post)

Here it is in the correct order.

[thalbergmad]

Thanks Ronde!  What it is actually, is the exact solo piano with the orchestra transcribed for piano.  I thought it was going to be something fancy and "enhanced".  

There are some enhancements i think, but it is years since i attempted to play this and cannot remember exactly.

Compare the last couple of pages for instance.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Forgot to mention that this has actually been recorded.

On the Marco Polo label if memory serves.

Thal

[imbetter]

My advice: there are MUCH better concerti out there to play but if you really like this one then just play the piano part.

[birba]

My advice: there are MUCH better concerti out there to play but if you really like this one then just play the piano part.

No, I don't agree.  Of course, it's not the most exciting of romantic concerti, and the orchestration leaves much to be desired, but to just play the whole thing from beginning to end on a piano for your own satisfaction is the point of this "transcription",(which it is not).  Especially the second movement.

[thalbergmad]

My advice: there are MUCH better concerti out there to play but if you really like this one then just play the piano part.

Even if there are, it is refreshing that someone wants to play this.

The World does not need another Grieg or Schumann.

Thal

[imbetter]

Even if there are, it is refreshing that someone wants to play this.

The World does not need another Grieg or Schumann.

Thal

No but we need Glazunov 1's and Khachaturian's which I find to be FAR superior to the Henslet. As well as Rubinstein 4 and scharwenka 2 and 5.

[thalbergmad]

Indeed, any of those would be preferable to Schumann.

[antichrist]

Indeed, any of those would be preferable to Schumann.

schumann piano concerto's middle part is quite delightful

[weissenberg2]

No, what we need is another crappy Tchaikovsky one!

jokes aside, I agree with IBTY, Glanunov concerto no.1 and the Khachaturian are masterpieces. .

[thalbergmad]

schumann piano concerto's middle part is quite delightful

Shame it has a first and last movement then.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

Shame it has a first and last movement then.

Thal

Can you be more specific as to what you don't like about it?

[antichrist]

we know thalbergmad dosen't like schumann  

[thalbergmad]

Can you be more specific as to what you don't like about it?

Yes, all the notes.

[weissenberg2]

Yes, all the notes.

The notes are the same as in the Henslet concerto but in a different order. What don't you like about the order of the notes?

[thalbergmad]

It is undramatic, unromantic, uneventful and lacks flair, imagination & power.

It is teutonic trash of the highest order.

On my list of favourite concerti, it is in 1114th position, just ahead of the Berio.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

On my list of favourite concerti, it is in 1114th position, just ahead of the Berio.

Thal

Where is the Khachaturian on your list?

[thalbergmad]

Cannot remember what it sounds like although i am sure i have heard it. If i cannot remember something, it generally means it did not leave much of an impression on me, so i would put it in the mid 900's on my list.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

Cannot remember what it sounds like although i am sure i have heard it. If i cannot remember something, it generally means it did not leave much of an impression on me, so i would put it in the mid 900's on my list.

Thal

You should listen to it again, it is a masterpiece although some parts are offensively Armenian 

[argerichfan]

You should listen to it again, it is a masterpiece although some parts are offensively Armenian 

Don't know that I would classify it as a 'masterpiece', though it's a bloody good piece of work.  The slow movement in particular has some pretty awesome moments.   

[edwardweiss]

I don't suppose for one minute that anyone is interested, but the top two on my list would be Max Reger  in F minor and Busoni in C-certainly not the Henselt, though one of my pianist heroes Raymond Lewenthal played it quite a lot.

[weissenberg2]

Don't know that I would classify it as a 'masterpiece', though it's a bloody good piece of work.  The slow movement in particular has some pretty awesome moments.   

Maybe I would agree with you.

I don't suppose for one minute that anyone is interested, but the top two on my list would be Max Reger  in F minor and Busoni in C-certainly not the Henselt, though one of my pianist heroes Raymond Lewenthal played it quite a lot.

I also love Lewenthal. His Alkan symphony left me speechless.

[birba]

There's confusion going on here.  I keep going to back to see if you're all referring to Hanselt (which I DON'T know) and the Katchaturian (which I've played). argerichfan is talking about the latter, right?

[argerichfan]

argerichfan is talking about the latter, right?

Yes, argerichfan is talking about the latter.

[argerichfan]

I don't suppose for one minute that anyone is interested, but the top two on my list would be Max Reger  in F minor and Busoni in C

As a matter of fact I would be interested.   I admire the Reger very much, but the Busoni is one of my favourite compositions of all time.  Desert island fare. 

[bradley]

Hi all

Thanks for the replies. So does no-one know anything about a solo version of the Henselt? I'm interested in doing a concert arrangement, not just playing it for my own pleasure. I realise alot of the time it would involve just the piano part, unchanged, as alot of the time the orchestra just doubles (well, pretty much) what the piano is doing. But what about the rest?

argerichfan: I don't know the Reger at all, but I can't stand the Busoni.

weissenberg2: I also love Alkan, mainly the solo concerto and the sonata op. 33, but I much prefer Hamelin's interpretations 

Thal: Don't worry, I also hate Schumann, esp the concerto!

antichrist: The Henselt is no-way harder than Rach 3. And yes he only wrote one concerto


Bradley

[retrouvailles]

Here is the solo arrangement, which I mentioned in a post of mine.

Btw, I happen to LOVE the Reger concerto, but I will admit that it is quite difficult to get and is one of the more inaccessible Romantic works out there. It is a bit like Brahms on acid.

[kay3087]

Oh wow, good luck! Hahah.

[bradley]

Retrouvailles: thanks so much for this. It seems to me though, that this is not so much a solo ARRANGEMENT, as the solo piano part with the orchestral cues inserted where the piano isn't playing. Would this version work in concert as it stands do you think?

[thalbergmad]

Yes.

As retro said before, many concerti from this era were played without orchestra.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Retrouvailles: thanks so much for this. It seems to me though, that this is not so much a solo ARRANGEMENT, as the solo piano part with the orchestral cues inserted where the piano isn't playing. Would this version work in concert as it stands do you think?

Yeah, it would work in concert. I don't know why you would want a "solo arrangement" rather than just having the orchestral cues there. There really seems to be no point to wanting a "solo arrangement" when something like this is much better, and already is deathly difficult. You could always get a full score of the piece, along with the two piano score, and make your own concert, or "solo", arrangement. Who knows, that could be fun.

[bradley]

I've had a better look at it now, comparing it the two-piano reduction and also listening to the recording, and it seems like it would work yes. My only concerns are when the orchestra has the tune/melody and the piano is just going up and down the keyboard with arpeggios or whatever.

[retrouvailles]

Well, in cases like that, it's a personal decision. If you just want to wow your audience, just stick with the piano part. If you are more concerned about the musical integrity of the work, make a decision whether or not to include some of the orchestral reduction in your performance.

[bradley]

Yeah, I think I will probably use the version you posted, but with a few minor changes in some places which I'll get from the 2-piano score. It should work well. Thanks so much for your help!