piano skill

[vaio9876]

I started playing the piano Nov of 2003 at 16. So far from order of what I know I have played Bach prelude 1, moonlight sonata 1,2,  rachmaninoff prelude 2 in Cminor and currently learning the APPASSIONATA sonata movment one ....

What I want to know from more experience pianist is it possible for me in under 2 years to play pieces like , la campanella, hungarian rhapsody 2, and the rach 2

[Hmoll]

I started playing the piano Nov of 2003 at 16. So far from order of what I know I have played Bach prelude 1, moonlight sonata 1,2,  rachmaninoff prelude 2 in Cminor and currently learning the APPASSIONATA sonata movment one ....

What I want to know from more experience pianist is it possible for me in under 2 years to play pieces like , la campanella, hungarian rhapsody 2, and the rach 2

Vaio,

Welcome to the forum.
It is not impossible, I suppose, for someone under two years of playing to play those pieces. However, the pieces you say you played are not anywhere close to the level of the pieces you say you want to play, so I would think you are not ready for them yet. Also, since you have not even been playing for a year, how well do you really know the pieces you say you have played - Appassionata??

Also, I hate to say, your question is asked over, and over, and over again in this forum (did I say "ad nauseum?"). I don't mean to be unwelcoming, but why don't you use the search function, read through some of the previous posts on this topic - there are hundreds - and come back to us.

[f0bul0us]

You'll find out very quickly that I don't sugarcoat what's on my mind. With that being said, don't come here and b1tch slap every hard working pianist in the face that's actually worked up to the level of La Campanella, Rach 2, and the Hungarian Rhapsody by entertaining the thought of completing those pieces.

Hmoll stop being so nice, sometimes people just need to hear the cold, hard truth which is no. Have you ever seen a landed immigrant enter the country, pick up the English language, and start writing Philosophically challenging books on something as complex as the "true" story of evolution? Hell no.

Go ahead and try, Vaio, but you don't have the proper basic training of interpreting each of those dynamically charged pieces into something more then just a fff fest.

Good luck!

[Saturn]

f0bul0us:

Maybe you should take one of these "Hi I've been playing piano for a year, can I play rach 3/La campanella??!?" threads and add it to the FAQ.

Though I doubt that would stop people from asking it.

- Saturn

[Hmoll]

 
Hmoll stop being so nice

Nice? Moi? Now there's a first!

[Antnee]

listen vaio...
I myself am a late starter... And your intentions may seem good, but you really have to stand back and take a deep breath. The pieces you have been working on are great pieces. The Apassionata is itslef a very big step from the others, and is very technically difficult... Odds are you're technique can't keep up with the fast parts, and give you the proper dynamics. It's not your fault... you just need to play much longer and gain more experience. When you do someday finish the Appassionata (mov 1) you will probably think yourself ready to tackle Campanella, rach2 and what not... I'm sorry but it is simply not possible to successfully play any of these in that amount of time... I have not been playing for ten years, more like two... And I have been progressing fast... I can play the pieces you can and more... But I keep my wits about me... I wouldn't really consider learning these for another couple of years. It just wouldn't be worth it... Trust what we say. If you were to keep up your playing and look at these pieces in two years you will see them completely differently.

-Tony-

[donjuan]

vaio, dont you think it is quite a jump from Bach Prelude No.1 to Liszt's La Campanella?  I believe wholeheartedly in improvement through difficult experiences, but I cant see you being able to pick up the Liszt technique immediately from the pieces you have played.  Work on easier works of Liszt before attempting such monumental works.  Dont do what I did: Play the crowning glory works of Liszt repertoire first, and not very well, only to give them up and move back to easier works.  Not only was it hard on the confidence, but it ruins your motivation to want to play these pieces.  Why dont you start with Liszt's Un Sospiro, or lyrical works from the poetic and religious harmonies?
donjuan

[vaio9876]

Thanks for the reply, now that I have an idea of were  I stand i have one more qusetion would taking music in college to perpare me to become a much better pianist be possible or will i be overwhelm with the demanding skills required

[donjuan]

It depends greatly on how old you are and your dedication, but in some miraculous cases (eg Paderewski, Horowitz), technique isnt so important as your ability to capture an audience.  How old are you?
donjuan  

[xvimbi]

Thanks for the reply, now that I have an idea of were  I stand i have one more qusetion would taking music in college to perpare me to become a much better pianist be possible or will i be overwhelm with the demanding skills required

Yes, no, perhaps. Get a teacher! It's obvious you don't have one, at least not a reasonable one, because s/he would have slapt you silly for such propositions. You may get the notes down, but you won't be able to play any of those pieces in a meaningful way, if you don't have very serious coaching. Find a good teacher and ask him/her to lead you to a stage where you will be able to play those pieces at some point. Remember, Rach2 requires an orchestra. No orchestra will play with you, unless you have demonstrated in countless competitions that you can pull it off. It's a long and hard way, and only a few make it.

[Shagdac]

Vaio,

Welcome to the forum. I agree 100% with Hmoll. I had to laugh though, as my very first post in this forum was something like..."is La Campanella as hard as it sounds"? Hahaha (duh)! And believe me...they let me have it too! I've been playing for ages, and even teach (very basic beginners), but believe me, I doubt I will ever be able to play Rach 3 (that's okay though), and am learning only very small portions of Campanella at a time. It's far more important to play something easier WELL, than to play something super difficult poorly. I know people that have studied far more than I have, and are much, much better pianists than myself that wouldn't touch Rach 3...and they have been playing most of their lives.

I took lessons for years...then even with continuing to play, was not taking lessons for a long time. So while I feel I have the "maturity" for some difficult pieces, I lack much of the technique I used to have. I'm back in lessons 3 times weekly trying to get everything back and go on from there. Don't rush it. And I would be skeptical of any teacher who encouraged you to try and learn those pieces after playing for such a short time.

But that's great that you are playing and have goals set. They truly are wonderful pieces and who wouldn't want to be able to play them? The fact that you have been playing around 7 months and can already play the pieces you've listed is fabulous. I'm impressed that you can play Rachmaninoff prelude in such a short time....took me much, much longer. Just remember, it's not just about hitting the right notes. I'm sure with determination and hard work at developing the necessary technique you will some day be able to play those difficult pieces when you are ready.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing!

S

[f0bul0us]

f0bul0us:

Maybe you should take one of these "Hi I've been playing piano for a year, can I play rach 3/La campanella??!?" threads and add it to the FAQ.

Though I doubt that would stop people from asking it.

- Saturn

f0bulous^TM idea. I'll put it right at the top so the little Newbie's know in advance they'll get mauled.

;D

[f0bul0us]

Oh hell! I think Nils may have deleted the one about (I forget his name) asking if it was possible to play Rach 3 after 2 years of "experience". That was my personal favorite!  

[JK]

He must have done, I can't find it anywhere either, that was a particularly good one, wasn't it something like "I've been playing for two weeks, have played first movement of moonlight, and in the next three months I'm gonna learn a new song called Rach3......."!!!!!!!!

[Spatula]

I started playing the piano Nov of 2003 at 16. So far from order of what I know I have played Bach prelude 1, moonlight sonata 1,2,  rachmaninoff prelude 2 in Cminor and currently learning the APPASSIONATA sonata movment one ....

What I want to know from more experience pianist is it possible for me in under 2 years to play pieces like , la campanella, hungarian rhapsody 2, and the rach 2

Again, I'm not Mr Nice guy, so here it is on a silver platter.

The APPASSIONATA??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?  It's like trying to explain how the music scales work to a 6 month old baby.  

I don't want to start freaking out and swearing but these "oh can I play the rach 3" and sh*t like that are really getting to me.

If you want to play beethoven, go play sonata op 49 because that is a good start.  
The app sonata is so bloody difficult that it takes years of preparation even if you have been playing for a considerable amount of time (10 + years), your fingers need to develop the strength, flexibliity, and skill to acquire a good sense of music, or else it'll sound like pure crap.  

I know I'm not nice, but yeah its life and its the same as saying to a figure skater that you want to do a triple axle when its your first few lessons.  Like seriously some of these people I do not respect their audacity of asking such questions.  

So Flame me and swear at me, go ahead, just remember that you better put your skills where your mouth is.  

PS>>>>  I AM SO PISSED OFF ! Now I’m bent outta shape, and you admin better not touch this post! GOT IT?!!! GOOD!
 

[Spatula]

Vaio,

Welcome to the forum. I agree 100% with Hmoll.Good luck and let us know how you are doing!

S

I don't even think these dabblers deserve a welcome.  At least my posts aren't so insulting to the mastery of this art.  

[xvimbi]

I don't even think these dabblers deserve a welcome.  At least my posts aren't so insulting to the mastery of this art.  

I get the impression that there is a pranckster who regularly puts up such a post just to get the forum all worked up...

[Spatula]

I get the impression that there is a pranckster who regularly puts up such a post just to get the forum all worked up...

Not me..wink wink nudge nudge  

[Spatula]

The real pranksters are the ones who think they'll be the next Horowitz and Kissin in like a year of starting piano, now that gets me bent outta shape.  
I think I've got a reason to be mad.  

[donjuan]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please allow me to introduce to you.....(drum roll)......Comme_Le_Vent II!!!!

(aka Spatula)

[f0bul0us]

I disagree, Donjuan, while Spatula looses much of his credibility by the excessive use of the beloved exclamation mark, I believe his dignity is hanging from a thread high enough out of reach from Comme_Le_Vent's level of pianistic disgrace.

[f0bul0us]

What the hell did I just say? I don't know, but it brought me one post closer to the "Senior Member" title.

[f0bul0us]

He must have done, I can't find it anywhere either, that was a particularly good one, wasn't it something like "I've been playing for two weeks, have played first movement of moonlight, and in the next three months I'm gonna learn a new song called Rach3......."!!!!!!!!

I missed this!  

I can't tell you how many times I cried myself to sleep just trying to understand what it must be like for Rachmaninoff watching down on all of us little "Rachaholics^TM ()", while our very own YaBB Newbies butcher his concertos and other solo works. What's worse is the other piano gods (Bach, Beethoven, Alkan, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, and Prokofiev) are allowing this!  

[Spatula]

Ladies and Gentlemen, please allow me to introduce to you.....(drum roll)......Comme_Le_Vent II!!!!

(aka Spatula)

Nah..he's not my style

[Spatula]

I missed this!  

I can't tell you how many times I cried myself to sleep just trying to understand what it must be like for Rachmaninoff watching down on all of us little "Rachaholics^TM ()", while our very own YaBB Newbies butcher his concertos and other solo works. What's worse is the other piano gods (Bach, Beethoven, Alkan, Chopin, Liszt, Ravel, and Prokofiev) are allowing this!  

SEE there you go! That's how I feel  

[pies]

­

[f0bul0us]

I posted a thread similar to this when I first joined here, and thankfully, the replies were much nicer  

OMG! Are you the legendary Newbie who thought it was possible to play Rach 3 within 2 years of playing the piano???  

[pies]

­

[JK]

OMG! Are you the legendary Newbie who thought it was possible to play Rach 3 within 2 years of playing the piano  

No, wasn't that someone with a name like pixie!!?? Who ever it was hasn't posted in ages after they got mauled by the entire forum!!!!!!

[willcowskitz]

To answer the original question:

Yes its possible to tackle through Hungarian Rhapsody II.
Yes its possible to stumble through La Campanella.
I don't think its probable with the "Rach2".

"It is possible" here means possible to memorize the pieces and play through them hitting most of the right keys.

However, to get the first two pieces to a level of *consistency* enough to perform it to a musical listener, I would say 2 years is too short of a time period.  Most is up to your motivation and available time, though.  Just be careful you don't cause your hands permanent damage by trying to eat too big chunks.

What I have figured in my piano playing is that the more I develop, the more horrible my playing is.  This doesn't mean my skills are decreasing, but my sensitivity to musical details is increasing, then revealing more and more errors from my playing.  Its natural development; when I gain skill in technique, I at the same time gain skill in listening to the actual music. When I am never fully satisfied, it keeps me trying to push myself, and this results in growing.  If you too soon reach the point where you personally think you're profoundly good, it only means your technical abilities developed too fast in relation to your musical ear and attention to details.  That's why it is important to get professional opinions on what you sound like, to maintain some kind of balance between the physical and mental performance.

[Spatula]

No, wasn't that someone with a name like pixie!!?? Who ever it was hasn't posted in ages after they got mauled by the entire forum!!!!!!

PIXIE 123 or something like that...they got raped for saying they wanna do the rach 3 with newbie piano skills....wow that makes me piss my pants laughin!

[Spatula]

To answer the original question:

Yes its possible to tackle through Hungarian Rhapsody II.
Yes its possible to stumble through La Campanella.
I don't think its probable with the "Rach2".

"It is possible" here means possible to memorize the pieces and play through them hitting most of the right keys.

However, to get the first two pieces to a level of *consistency* enough to perform it to a musical listener, I would say 2 years is too short of a time period.  Most is up to your motivation and available time, though.  Just be careful you don't cause your hands permanent damage by trying to eat too big chunks.

What I have figured in my piano playing is that the more I develop, the more horrible my playing is.  This doesn't mean my skills are decreasing, but my sensitivity to musical details is increasing, then revealing more and more errors from my playing.  Its natural development; when I gain skill in technique, I at the same time gain skill in listening to the actual music. When I am never fully satisfied, it keeps me trying to push myself, and this results in growing.  If you too soon reach the point where you personally think you're profoundly good, it only means your technical abilities developed too fast in relation to your musical ear and attention to details.  That's why it is important to get professional opinions on what you sound like, to maintain some kind of balance between the physical and mental performance.

HAHAHAH how about this..
my sister just did her gr 1 Piano exam (6 yr old) with super easy gr 1 stuff like bear in the forest and porcupine dance (super easy again)

Sure as hell she could do a simple beethoven piece or sonata, but she can't understand or appreciate the musicallity or difficulty or emotion it is supposed to convey.  Similarily this is true even for people up to their young adult hood where they might not have the true experience or life of the piece even though they've been studying piano for 5+ years.

But sure as hell a person starting out with 1 piano lesson can do the R3, just not very good.  Like prolly not even the exposition theme in octaves...DEDCDEFE.... blah blah blah..

So go ahead viao, make your day.  

[willcowskitz]

What's so funny?  

The most common point made when a wannabe-virtuoso (speaking generally) cruises onto the forum and starts trying to make an impression, is that "anyone can play right notes, but there's more to music than just that".  This is a good point, but I don't see it often based on much solid ground.  Someone can have prodigious technique but at the same time possess the ability to feel and live the music he plays. Or, he can lack either, or both.  It is true that life experience is needed in order to understand some pieces but even so, as there can exist many different interpretations of same piece, someone without all that experience and spectrum of life can still feel through the piece, and we shouldn't just deny them this.  Its the Internet, people can be what they would want to be, even believe in it, at least after they've succesfully stuffed these impressions down other people's throats then being able to absorb this newly made image of their self back and adapt to it.  Its just another way of building one's confidence that nature offers.  However, as its based on illusions of self through others (as we generally are, reflections of how much of ourselves we see in people around us), it tends to collapse sooner or later. I don't mind letting people find out their limits by themselves and not let the masses of people around them, already affecting and influencing them in numerous ways, to decide what they can or can not achieve. It is trial and error, process of learning can be hard but it should always be fun and get it's energy from *inside* the person.  So, let them struggle the Rachmaninoff and run to walls, recover from it and either start climbing them or find another route.  The best I can do to benefit anyone, from where I stand here, is to encourage to find one's limits and then push them, but at the same time being aware of one's *physical* limitations.  Don't break those hands, they're obviously very precious to you.

[Spatula]

What's so funny?  

The most common point made when a wannabe-virtuoso (speaking generally) cruises onto the forum and starts trying to make an impression, is that "anyone can play right notes, but there's more to music than just that".  This is a good point, but I don't see it often based on much solid ground.  Someone can have prodigious technique but at the same time possess the ability to feel and live the music he plays. Or, he can lack either, or both.  It is true that life experience is needed in order to understand some pieces but even so, as there can exist many different interpretations of same piece, someone without all that experience and spectrum of life can still feel through the piece, and we shouldn't just deny them this.  Its the Internet, people can be what they would want to be, even believe in it, at least after they've succesfully stuffed these impressions down other people's throats then being able to absorb this newly made image of their self back and adapt to it.  Its just another way of building one's confidence that nature offers.  However, as its based on illusions of self through others (as we generally are, reflections of how much of ourselves we see in people around us), it tends to collapse sooner or later. I don't mind letting people find out their limits by themselves and not let the masses of people around them, already affecting and influencing them in numerous ways, to decide what they can or can not achieve. It is trial and error, process of learning can be hard but it should always be fun and get it's energy from *inside* the person.  So, let them struggle the Rachmaninoff and run to walls, recover from it and either start climbing them or find another route.  The best I can do to benefit anyone, from where I stand here, is to encourage to find one's limits and then push them, but at the same time being aware of one's *physical* limitations.  Don't break those hands, they're obviously very precious to you.

Like I said earlier, let em do the hell stuff and see what they think.  It's a scare tactic.  

[Spatula]

By now, it's obvious that if you're looking for sympathy, don't look at me.  

[xvimbi]

I don't mind letting people find out their limits by themselves and not let the masses of people around them, already affecting and influencing them in numerous ways, to decide what they can or can not achieve. It is trial and error, process of learning can be hard but it should always be fun and get it's energy from *inside* the person. So, let them struggle the Rachmaninoff and run to walls, recover from it and either start climbing them or find another route.  The best I can do to benefit anyone, from where I stand here, is to encourage to find one's limits and then push them, but at the same time being aware of one's *physical* limitations.  Don't break those hands, they're obviously very precious to you.

Well spoken Willcowskitz, but I don't think the forum members are trying to tell those newbies what they can do and what they can't do. I see it more like they are telling them HOW to do it. There is a lot of experience and wisdom in the combined forum members. Some of them have started out just like pixie_123 and vaio and found out that it was impossible to realize their silly dreams and hopes. Now, they are telling the newbies that this is not the right way. Their posts are full of excellent advice (build up musicality, build up technique, don't hurt yourself) and even show paths for how to obtain these skills. Many probably wish they had had the same advice or that they had heeded the warnings. Now, they are trying to warn the next generation not to make the same mistakes. Yet, as we all know, the young never listen, because they are naive and stupid and must therefore make their own mistakes. This is what pisses me off!

[f0bul0us]

If I wanted someone to butter my toast for me, I'd call mommy. Lucky for me, "I'm a big kid now" (Pampers commercial) and I understand/mean a fair bit of what I say (to Newbies, ofcourse). What you're forgetting, Willcowskitz,  is that this forum isn't like Reality t.v. and we're not playing "Who wants to be a concerto pianist?". They need a sensible approach to gradually difficult repertoire, that's why we have grades remember?

JK: Who said Brahms killed cats?  

[vaio9876]

well i have been reading the reply of my post some are mixed but  to make clear one thing i know what you guys mean when it come to playing these amazing pieces but i have studied these pieces before hand   historically  and theroy wise and i am being taught by a concert pianist who believes with the proper training I can reach theses masterworks becuse my skills alow it and i do deeply think about these pieces i just cant go and play i have to feel and get in the mind of the composer to interpet these works, but dont get me wrong i dont want to be arrogant OR A JERK ABOUT ANYTHING   AND
NO THIS IS NOT A JOKE

thank you

[Irock1ce]

ahahahaha. good luck.

[pies]

­

[willcowskitz]

Well spoken Willcowskitz, but I don't think the forum members are trying to tell those newbies what they can do and what they can't do. I see it more like they are telling them HOW to do it. There is a lot of experience and wisdom in the combined forum members. Some of them have started out just like pixie_123 and vaio and found out that it was impossible to realize their silly dreams and hopes. Now, they are telling the newbies that this is not the right way. Their posts are full of excellent advice (build up musicality, build up technique, don't hurt yourself) and even show paths for how to obtain these skills. Many probably wish they had had the same advice or that they had heeded the warnings. Now, they are trying to warn the next generation not to make the same mistakes. Yet, as we all know, the young never listen, because they are naive and stupid and must therefore make their own mistakes. This is what pisses me off!

Yes probably this applies to the general message that people are trying to give, but I still find the replies sometimes purposely suppressing. I haven't been taught technique and I've only once had carpal tunnel inflammation, around time when I had just started and was trying to find my physical limits by raping (playing piano, ahem) my hands with tormenting techniques and stretches. It was a week or two of hell, but I learnt what to avoid. A little while ago, when I was playing this part of Liszt's music with ugly sixteenths of "A Hb <octave higher> Ab H" repetitively, pain struck in my wrist again. I shut the piano key cover and decided to not play for a few days.  Well, after an hour I figured I could play, with my left hand, so I picked another piece I was practicing and started practicing the left. But oh didn't that left just crave for the right to join it, so I decided to "play softly" with my right. Couple minutes later I was banging the piano with my right again, but I had already become conscious of what exact moves would cause another inflammation and I was carefully avoiding them despite the fact that I really stressed my hand while playing.


f0bul0us:

Its not a "reality TV show", but its a forum for exchanging ideas and evolving them.  If someone comes here, 'wanting to be a concert pianist', what's in that to me? What should it be? I can only assume he's serious and share my thoughts on the subject. I know how annoying it is being the 21st century and the egocentric cultural effects can be seen about everywhere, including music and here piano, but if someone tries to strengthen his self-image by getting acceptance among a bunch of unknown shady people, is he strong enough to receive all the aggressive criticism? As long as you don't let these people or their fantasies influence your OWN image of Your self (by readjusting standards for, here skill of piano playing), you don't have a reason to hammer thoughts of naive, ignorant or just inexperienced (in life) people. Besides, haven't you heard that narcists are good at making first impressions but not so good at keeping them up. Oh and I don't believe in grades as they are, as they seem to progressively force the learning process even (or particularly) in the unmotivated or untalented. On the other hand, I'm one of those "school sucks" people anyway.

[Shagdac]

You guys should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here this poor guy comes to the forum, probably excited and pouring over with enthusiasm and you guys have literally done nothing this whole post, but rip him apart. Being NEW, he probably does not have the background that would make someone realize, what kind of question this was? Don't you think a simple response to his well meaning question (no matter how ridiculous), would suffice? C'mon, be nice!

Vaio....don't let it get to ya, keep your enthusiasm, continue to ask questions, (just search around and make sure no one got yelled at before for asking the same one)!!!!!

S          

[Shagdac]

Pies wrote:

try using periods in your next post.

Maybe he will, but Pies please remember to capitalize
the first word of a sentence!!!

[Saturn]

I started playing the piano Nov of 2003 at 16. So far from order of what I know I have played Bach prelude 1, moonlight sonata 1,2,  rachmaninoff prelude 2 in Cminor and currently learning the APPASSIONATA sonata movment one ....

What I want to know from more experience pianist is it possible for me in under 2 years to play pieces like , la campanella, hungarian rhapsody 2, and the rach 2

Vaio, let me tell you something.

Musicians can be VERY jealous people.   When you post this sort of question, there will always be hundreds of forum posters who are all too eager to jump on you and scream "THERE'S MORE TO MUSIC THAN JUST PLAYING THE NOTES!!!"  Beware the music police.

But I will give you a bit of advice: do not ever ask what is POSSIBLE in music.  What do you mean by possible?  Physically/technically possible?  Artistically possible?  If you start by asking whether it's possible, you're already approaching the piece incorrectly.

The answer to your question is that there is no answer.  You must be motivated by your own love for music and your desire to express the music which is already inside you.  As you play, you will come to discover what is possible and what is impossible for you; it's a personal thing, and not something that anyone else could tell you.  Also, don't set time frames for your music education.  Trying to learn rach 2 in 2 years of playing is silly.  There are professional pianists (who have been playing all their lives) who work on these pieces for years before they'll perform them in public!

So, why do you want to play such pieces?  Is it because you hear, in your mind, how the piece ought to be played, and you feel a desire to share this with others?  Or is it because you're drawn to the challenge of the music and want to be able to say you've conquered these gigantic pieces?

Of course, there's nothing with enjoying the challenge of difficult pieces.  But there's also nothing artistic about it.  And if this is your sole motivation to playing, I suggest taking up mountain climbing instead, which provides far more of an adrenaline rush than piano playing.

- Saturn

[JK]

http://f0bul0us wrote:

JK: Who said Brahms killed cats?  

I can't remember who unfortunately, but someone on this forum said that they heard a story that Brahms used to kill cats for fun!! Fortunately I have found out since that it's absolute rubbish and just a rumour made up by Wagner supporters!!!



On a more serious note I think the reason why a lot of the responses to this post are strongly worded is because a lot of us, including myself, have been in a similar situation when we were younger or less experienced. Therefore I certainly feel inclined to offer the advice that it is good to be ambitious but you have to be realistic which means taking on board advice and listening to people who have had similar experiences to you.  

[Spatula]

I started playing the piano Nov of 2003 at 16. So far from order of what I know I have played Bach prelude 1, moonlight sonata 1,2,  rachmaninoff prelude 2 in Cminor and currently learning the APPASSIONATA sonata movment one ....

What I want to know from more experience pianist is it possible for me in under 2 years to play pieces like , la campanella, hungarian rhapsody 2, and the rach 2

I think we (more like I) scared this guy away...
and the music police hahaha

that ranks up with the fashion and snoring police!!!  

[f0bul0us]

f0bul0us:

Its not a "reality TV show", but its a forum for exchanging ideas and evolving them.  If someone comes here, 'wanting to be a concert pianist', what's in that to me? What should it be? I can only assume he's serious and share my thoughts on the subject. I know how annoying it is being the 21st century and the egocentric cultural effects can be seen about everywhere, including music and here piano, but if someone tries to strengthen his self-image by getting acceptance among a bunch of unknown shady people, is he strong enough to receive all the aggressive criticism? As long as you don't let these people or their fantasies influence your OWN image of Your self (by readjusting standards for, here skill of piano playing), you don't have a reason to hammer thoughts of naive, ignorant or just inexperienced (in life) people. Besides, haven't you heard that narcists are good at making first impressions but not so good at keeping them up. Oh and I don't believe in grades as they are, as they seem to progressively force the learning process even (or particularly) in the unmotivated or untalented. On the other hand, I'm one of those "school sucks" people anyway.

Oh come on, by saying that you're saying that any student who can read notes can learn any piece. Given they are willing to bend over backwards and work for years and years on it, only to find out after those years that everything they've done is meaningless because they could've have learned other pieces that would have better prepared them for the piece they would've spent years on. Don't bother calling me a narcists because I can definitely back up what I say (Canadian Music Competition, 4th place-tie out of about 300). So, I know what I'm talking about. Also, I don't let the "fantasies" of others influence the image of myself because 1.  My goal in life is non-music related completely (Pharmacy/Medicine) and 2. Cash grants have made their way into my pocket with several other music competitions.  


P.S. - More then half the time I roast YaBB Newbie's not because I care about them damaging their hands or butchering a famous piece, but because every week their seems to be a new one asking the same question. So I take the oppurtunity maul them, and sometimes show them previous threads of people who have asked similar questions. On the whole (a pun for lubriderm maybe?) I find it hemroidingly (SP? lol) discomforting to sit back (as the piano gods seem to be doing) and let these posts go without harsh truths.

[Spatula]

Oh come on, by saying that you're saying that any student who can read notes can learn any piece. Given they are willing to bend over backwards and work for years and years on it, only to find out after those years that everything they've done is meaningless because they could've have learned other pieces that would have better prepared them for the piece they would've spent years on. Don't bother calling me a narcists because I can definitely back up what I say (Canadian Music Competition, 4th place-tie out of about 300). So, I know what I'm talking about. Also, I don't let the "fantasies" of others influence the image of myself because 1.  My goal in life is non-music related completely (Pharmacy/Medicine) and 2. Cash grants have made their way into my pocket with several other music competitions.  


P.S. - More then half the time I roast YaBB Newbie's not because I care about them damaging their hands or butchering a famous piece, but because every week their seems to be a new one asking the same question. So I take the oppurtunity maul them, and sometimes show them previous threads of people who have asked similar questions. On the whole (a pun for lubriderm maybe?) I find it hemroidingly (SP? lol) discomforting to sit back (as the piano gods seem to be doing) and let these posts go without harsh truths.

AMEN!

[willcowskitz]

Oh come on, by saying that you're saying that any student who can read notes can learn any piece. Given they are willing to bend over backwards and work for years and years on it, only to find out after those years that everything they've done is meaningless because they could've have learned other pieces that would have better prepared them for the piece they would've spent years on.

Any older instruments, including piano, don't fit hands naturally, they're very unergonomic. This is why a teacher can be important, because the technical demands of the instrument can be treacherous. However, I have yet to find a technical obstacle in a piece that I couldn't overcome by myself. Improvising also helps technique, and I don't mean doing strictly scales, but using your hands freely on the keyboard. This is pretty much how I learnt about harmony in practice - which keys to not play with others. If on the other hand I didn't straight away start tackling those exact pieces that I really loved from heart, I probably never would've developed my technique even as much as I have. In my case, and as my temporary teacher said, I was naturally "in the technique". I don't force my hands on keys, the keys call on the right finger, and this is where improvisation has helped me too.

There ARE people who can learn the mentioned pieces in less than two years and play them musically. In my opinion, if you have the determination and motivation, all the energy and will to learn the instrument so bad, you must have some kind of artistical need. People keep saying anyone can hit the right keys but not necessarily play music. I would like to underline the "necessarily" here, usually people's need to crush these young beginning pianists (young = not yet adapted to the thought world of adults, being openminded and seeing no limits to what they can do, exploring those limits) is more based on something that derives from inside these people, not the young "wannabe-virtuoso".

Don't bother calling me a narcists because I can definitely back up what I say (Canadian Music Competition, 4th place-tie out of about 300). So, I know what I'm talking about.

Can you point out the exact spot where I called you a narcist? With due all respect, no matter how much I try to speak generally and without hurting anyone personally, someone will always pick up anything I say and reflect it on their self.

Also, I don't let the "fantasies" of others influence the image of myself because 1.  My goal in life is non-music related completely (Pharmacy/Medicine) and 2. Cash grants have made their way into my pocket with several other music competitions.

Your goal not being in music does not exclude the possibility that music is important and very personal to you, meaning you attach it as part of your identity and your abilities in area of music affect the way you see yourself in relation to your environment. And we all need to stand out in a way or another, to exist. This is why we form egos, to summon this image of our selves from the inside instead of only reflecting it from other people and getting to know it by observing what we see in them. Jealousy and envy and their paradoxal co-existence (or continous fighting for it) with pride are about the most common characteristics of mankind. Of course you update your views on the world by observing other people, and if you need to raise standards on something, say piano playing (in the case somebody claims to have learnt it much faster than you would think), you start comparing yourself to this picture, just to be conscious of what is needed from you to fulfill your own goals, even if they're not financial ones.

P.S. - More then half the time I roast YaBB Newbie's not because I care about them damaging their hands or butchering a famous piece, but because every week their seems to be a new one asking the same question. So I take the oppurtunity maul them, and sometimes show them previous threads of people who have asked similar questions. On the whole (a pun for lubriderm maybe?) I find it hemroidingly (SP? lol) discomforting to sit back (as the piano gods seem to be doing) and let these posts go without harsh truths.

Yes indeed you're not responsible to maul anyone, yet you do it to promote your avatar on this forum. To you I could say; This is not a "who wants to be a cyber bully."

[xvimbi]

Yes indeed you're not responsible to maul anyone, yet you do it to promote your avatar on this forum. To you I could say; This is not a "who wants to be a cyber bully."

Just to save some people the burden of looking it up:
Avatar: Manifestation or presentation to the world as a ruling power or object of worship