Stressing Sixteenth notes???

[Shagdac]

When consecutive measures (2beats per measure) are made up of all 16th notes....can anyone offer suggestions on how one can better their technique of emphasizing the 1st and 2nd beats only? The first beat is a single note,(left hand) which should be stressed, followed by chord (left hand), then single note played by right hand, then chord by right hand.....the pattern repeats for the 2nd beat....repeating for several lines. My problem has been while I can do this, when playing it  up to speed I tend to stress the opposite notes...so instead of sounding like  ONE-a-and-a, TWO-a-and-a,...it comes out sounding like one-A-and -A, two-A-and-A. I was thinking possibly this had something to do with the fact that it just seems natural to play the single note more softly, then with hitting a chord after that it seems to come out louder. I can control this with alot of concentrating while playing this, however it still does not sound natural or up to speed.

I try to drop my wrist more for the first beat(and 2nd) and then lift as I play the consecutive notes, but still, it does not always come out with the stress on the first beat as it should.

Are there any suggestion on the best way to practice this to develop my technique? I know how it is suppposed to be played, I just am having difficulty in knowing how to produce the desired effect. Any tips or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much,
S

[donjuan]

your method- "ONE - a - and -a - TWO...." is VERY confusing to think or play.  My tacher had me say "watermelon" like:

"WA-ter-me-lon- WA- ter- me-lon",

emphasising the "WA" to have a strong down beat.  Later, after you have the rhythm down, dont play with accents on the 1st syllable, but think it.  It will sound weird if you said wa-TER-mel-ON, so it will be more obvious to fix than "one - A - and - A..."

This method works for me, because when we say the word "watermelon", we naturally put emphasis on the first syllable.

See if it works for you!
donjuan

[thierry13]

You must remove the pedal when touching the note, it will emphasis the note.

[Shagdac]

Thanks DonJuan, that indeed may make it easier! Appreciate your help...and your suggestion as well Thierry, however the pedal is very clearly marked as to when to play.....it is NOT to be held down during the first measure of this pattern, and then comes in on the 2nd beat of the next measure. The repeats for several lines.

Thanks so much guys,
S

[bernhard]

There are several ways to approach this problem. Here are a few:

1.      This is the most important. Hear in your mind how you want it to sound. You say that you know exactly how you want it to sound, but is that just theoretical knowledge. Or you can actually “hear” it? If you can’t, try listening to a CD that does it, or ask your teacher to play it for you. This is a very funny thing. If you actually hear what you want to play, somehow the fingers will eventually find a way of complying. A lot of people approach this form the opposite end: they get obsessed with the minutiae of movement, and keep making minute changes in the physicality of their playing while checking aurally if they achieved their aim. Do it the other way around. Ignore completely the physical minutiae and instead aim for your intended aural effect. You will be surprised that you will be doing it. Usually you will also start by making mistakes (missing notes, playing the wrong notes) even though the musical conception is correct. The body just needs time to adjust. Trying to persist in getting the correct notes will actually interfere with the process and you will not get the musical conception you want. So ignore the mistakes and concentrate solely in achieving the musical conception. As you repeat the passage your body will naturally find the best set of movements/co-ordinations and the mistakes will disappear as if by magic. I cannot really describe to you what it feels like. But it is a very definite feeling and once you experience it, you will know what to look for in every single piece. This is another of these “secrets” that create a lot of short cuts in learning. This is probably akin to automatic writing. You want somehow to be so immersed in the musical conception that you end up doing “automatic playing”. And just like people doing automatic writing usually write all over the page not following lines, your playing will in the beginning be very sloppy. But once you get the hang of it, then you can tidy it up.

2.      Now for the minutiae of physical movements – but the above is assumed here. The first thing I would suggest is that you play the chords silently. This means playing on the surface of the keys as perfectly as you can but barely depressing the keys. If that does not accent the bass notes nothing will he he! To get the hang of this “silent playing”, play a scale a few times this way. You play it accurately and with perfect movements, but you barely depress the keys, so no sound is forthcoming from the piano. Once you get the hang of it, do it in the passage that is giving you trouble.

3.      There are many ways to accent notes besides playing them louder. One that is very natural and that people do unconsciously (without noticing that they are doing it) is to play unevenly If you dilate the time of the bass note, it will be accented even if you do not play it any louder. So do rhythmic variations, especially slow – fast. In this case that you want to accent the first note in a group of 4, do slow-fast-fast-fast-slow-fast-fast-fast etc. To start with exaggerate the rhythm so the first note is really slow and the other three notes really fast. Then tone it down by speeding up the slow note and slowing down the fast note. Eventually you will get to a pattern of uneven playing that will sound even but it is actually uneven Typically listeners will perceive this unevenness not as unevenness but as the first note being accented.

4.      Another way to accent a note, specially a bass note is to play it a fraction of a second ahead (or after) the RH note. Because the RH note is in the treble, and the LH is in the bass, the treble note will mask the low note. By not playing the notes exactly together, the Rh note falls on the decay of the LH (or vice-versa) which means that it stands out. This must be most carefully timed, since it will sound terrible if it is not almost simultaneous. Apparently this was fashionable with 19th century pianists, and Paderewsky did it all the time (and was much criticised by purists). But the truth is everyone does it unconsciously. The secret is not to be caught doing it. You should do it, but no one should “hear” it. It is also the only way to accent notes when playing pianissimo.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[illusion]

Just keeping thread "alive"

[toughbo]

Yes, thank you. Bernard's advice here is solid gold for more than just sixteenth notes

[lostinidlewonder]

Just keeping thread "alive"

This is like the most potent necropost pianostreet has ever experienced lol.

[j_tour]

Yeah, I've been doing this all the time, especially in pieces in cut time, 2/4.  It sounds a little odd to really stress the one and three beats, but it seems the only way I can remind myself of the way something like the last movement of Beethoven Op. 27 no. 1, or the Rondo from Op. 26 is (I think) supposed to sound.  

It seems to have the virtue of being a way to make practicing/reading through the piece a little more interesting, though.

I can't remember what other pieces I've done this on -- basically anything in 2/4 or marked alla breve, especially when the LH, for example, has running lines or chord outlines in sixteenth notes.  Meh, seems to be a fun exercise, and seems to hammer in the core rhythmic features without having to use a metronome or other more detailed, microscope-type view.