Does music make you a better person?

[ahmedito]

The topic I want to debate is this "Is being a person who firmly believes in God, and who loves and appreciates the arts better?" Does it help you in anything at all?


My opinion is:

NO!!!! absolutely not, music does not make you a better person at all. neither does art or religion.

I am religious and a musician, so dont get me wrong. But I believe that good or evil comes from a persons soul and not from his beliefs in any God or in his apreciation for the arts....

To better illustrate my point, here is an example....

Its 1942, Hans is a German soldier. He works at a concentration camp. Every morning he goes to church at 7:00 am and takes communion, he is a fervent catholic and loves God. Afterwards he goes to work and kills 30 or 40 jews personally. That very night he goes to the opera and cries at a Wagner opera, overwhelmed with its beauty....

There are many many many cases like this in the world... so, what are music and religion for? they definately wont make you a better person in my opinion... Id like to hear what YOU have to say.

Excuse my english, its a foreign languaje to me.

[f0bul0us]

I believe that good or evil comes from a persons soul and not from his beliefs in any God or in his apreciation for the arts....

Sorta kinda, you can't defend or deny either side since music is said to be the language of emotion. What emotion (good or bad) is another question though, and the only way to answer it is to ask the question of, are people naturally "good" at heart or are we "trained" into being good people? Imagine all of us acted on instinct, are we naturally good or bad?  :-/

[willcowskitz]

are people naturally "good" at heart or are we "trained" into being good people? Imagine all of us acted on instinct, are we naturally good or bad?  :-/

If we all acted on instinct, we would;

a) Defend ourselves and our family
b) Attack or flee from everyone else


Naturally each of us has the intellectual ability (more or less, sigh) to figure out what is wrong and what is right. Religions are one source of knowledge on these matters, and for most cases acts rather as an authority providing answers (read: laws) than making people think for themselves. So when a bunch of these people, who take a religion and it's god as the ultimate authority, gather together, we have a war. Its not about weighing the good and evil as in relation to the world we know, its about reading The Book and interpreting it literally, only granting the followers of this god the status of "good", and therefore to anyone who opposes it the status of "evil". To return to the original question: YES most of us have been taught to be "good", whether by the family or other authorities such as school or church. We must act civil because we're part of the civilized society and we must know our role. But, ethics is actually pure mathematics, it should NOT be dependant on an individual's view. It tries to get the real answers to what an individual can and can not do. We can only get these answers by detaching ourselves from our egos (here I go again), because ego radically restricts one's perspective to the ground level that we fight our wars on. We can only do what anyone else could. Somebody said (don't remember who), that only act certain way if it could become a universal law. This is pretty much same as the "Do to others what you would wish others to do to you."

As for the even more original question: Music has the potential to change people, therefore it can either make us better or worse depending on what our minds are set to resonate with. Wagner's music made Hitler feel powerful, something that Hitler would view as being "better" than prior to listening, but as the consequences of Hitler's determination and powerfulness were what they were, whom did the music serve? It always depends on how one's mind is programmed (or alternatively, how one's soul has set) and the individual personal traits that one has, what music can do to the person.

I might add, that there certainly exists "music" (can be argued) what objectively makes one a worse person. Haha.

[bachopoven]

there are some interesting statements. I happen to agree that a person's religious statue or their musical activities have little to do with the rest of their lives,

However, I certainly can testify that a person's relationship with God can change our entire lives for the better if we allow God to work through us. Any believer, not religious, person can tell you his life is a testimy to the changing power of God, and I am one of those people. When I sometimes rebel against God, I find myself in complete disaster. My attitude toward people, situations and myslef are not good. I only find that out when I get closer to God, because whe I do that, I find myself transformed into a new person. I look at myslef and say, "Wow. I also a child of God." I know that because I see it and feel it in my life. It's like other forces, only eternal and greatest. You can see its effects, you can see it move you and things around you.

The example of the soldier is also an interesting one. You only stated that Hans goes to church, you didn't say anything about his beliefs and his relatiohship with the Lord Christ. But let's say for a moment that he is a child of God. There are things that still could lead him to killing others. That's rebelion, drifting away from God's plans, which would have led him to helping others instead of killing the inncent.

Another possible scnario is that he takes the killings upon himself as a job. Killing jews may not be his moral choice. But he does it like American soldiers in Vietnam many of whom openly declared that the war was against their will but they simply had a job to do. And the good soldiers restrained themselves from harming the innocent. The moral soldeirs weren't driven by desires of killing but the task of prenenting more bloodshed and defending their country, and in wars, there are some necessary evils to keep the bigger evil from happening.

Another thought I has is that a person can get used to acts of killing by doing it a lot, and still find himself crying at some stories of love or the opera. He can have a much greater gifted of the appreciation of love and music than of precious human lives.

[f0bul0us]

We must act civil because we're part of the civilized society and we must know our role.

Who has the right to tell me what to do, and why? If I kill someone and am ready to accept the consequences because I feel that what I've done is justified in my mind, you can't tell me that what I've done is wrong. If I believe it's right and you believe it's wrong who's to sat which of the two is more civil? Some guy in a black robbed with the title "Judge" infront of his name? I don't think so, what power does he have over me.

[f0bul0us]

I might add, that there certainly exists "music" (can be argued) what objectively makes one a worse person. Haha.

I found myself getting progressively "more evil" as I listened to the 1st week fo American Idol auditions.

[willcowskitz]

Who has the right to tell me what to do, and why? If I kill someone and am ready to accept the consequences because I feel that what I've done is justified in my mind, you can't tell me that what I've done is wrong. If I believe it's right and you believe it's wrong who's to sat which of the two is more civil? Some guy in a black robbed with the title "Judge" infront of his name? I don't think so, what power does he have over me.

Who:

The government (or the legal system) has the right


Why:

, because you are part of the society ruled by the government, and you must accepts it's rules to be part of it. They can tell you you've done wrong because you broke against it's rules and are therefore non-applicable as part of the society, the society does not benefit from you. Civilization means here (where I mentioned it first) "developed" (in terms of technology and society structure) civilization, in contrast to more "primitive" ones such as bushmen in Africa or indians in America.

Because they physically overpower you in force. Just oppose and let's see how many policemen it takes to "adapt" you to their rules.

But yes, I see your point. Nobody asked you to join the society, you were just born within it's borders and got barcoded in your neck.


As for the idols, yes its eeevil!

[littlechopin]

I saw a lot of religious people make very bad thing every day... I saw a lot of musicians make very bad thing every day... it 's not a problem of rel or mus, but a personal and intimate problem.
Music can help us to be better, but I've seen this happen a very few time... unluckyly!
Everyone on his own decides how he wants to be like...

When I was younger I believed Musicians were better people... then I grow up and I've opened my eyes.
My father (not a musican) says music has brought me to another level... I don't know...

Excuse my English

[Shagdac]

Personally, I don't feel being a musician will necessary make you a better person. It might help one be a more well-rounded individual, and express more creativity, but as far as being a "better" person. No, I don't think.

Ahmedito....I agree that by knowing or just by believing in religion, it will NOT make you a better person. One must practice and live by what they believe. If you just believe, but don't follow what you believe, it wouldn't do anybody any good.

S

[faulty_damper]

You didn't even define the word "better".  Better in what way?  Did you meant better morally, educationally, productively, intelligently, socially, etc?

Yes, music makes you a better person, but in order for this to be true, I cannot define the word "better".

No, music does not make you a better person, as long as I don't define the word "better".

See how easy it is for opinions to be dogma?

[Spatula]

You didn't even define the word "better".  Better in what way?  Did you meant better morally, educationally, productively, intelligently, socially, etc?

Yes, music makes you a better person, but in order for this to be true, I cannot define the word "better".

No, music does not make you a better person, as long as I don't define the word "better".

See how easy it is for opinions to be dogma?

I was just about to say the same thing about "better".  Again, if better is your idea of an individual who is more relaxed, calm, takes things to view at a big picture instead of fuming over small things, who realises that he/she has weaknesses and strengths, has a correct and moral attitude towards life and the likes, and generally is more productive, then perhaps yes there is a VERY slight corrolation between the two.

YOu have to remember that people do it for different reasons to study music. Some for the money, some for the fame and money, some for enjoyment, some just to waste time, some to discover new ways to express themselves, and the rest who do it for school credit. .. etc etc

[ahmedito]

Spatula! I dont agree. I believe there is absolutely no relation, because what a person learns from music differs greatly from person to person; so, while some learn to be calm and fell their limits and all that.... some are affected in an entirely opposite way, becoming competitive and loud jackasses and braggarts....

Defining better would require me to define good and evil.... and thats a very problematic task, so I simply asume that instead of nitpicking at something that is besides the point, you already have a personal definition of what makes a person good or bad, hence better or worse.

[Spatula]

Spatula! I dont agree. I believe there is absolutely no relation, because what a person learns from music differs greatly from person to person; so, while some learn to be calm and fell their limits and all that.... some are affected in an entirely opposite way, becoming competitive and loud jackasses and braggarts....

Defining better would require me to define good and evil.... and thats a very problematic task, so I simply asume that instead of nitpicking at something that is besides the point, you already have a personal definition of what makes a person good or bad, hence better or worse.

well duh.  that was the whole point of me bickering about what the hell does "better" mean, and perhaps I gave an interpretation, but not THE interpretation.  Read my posts more thoughly next time

[ahmedito]

OK.... let me make myself clearer.

I read your posts. I ALWAYS read everyones post, before replying, unlike many people.
OK, you make a point, better is subjective.... so what?

Just reply with a subjective answer, according to what better means to you. Better than before? Better than others? I dont care.... The point of this thread is not about arguing the meaning of the word "better".

I hate it when the original question of a thread gets lost in all the meaningless bickering among nitpickers about something that is entirely besides the point, just because they feel they HAVE to argue.... in that instance, I suppose I miss ed...

[Spatula]

OK.... let me make myself clearer.

I read your posts. I ALWAYS read everyones post, before replying, unlike many people.
OK, you make a point, better is subjective.... so what?

Just reply with a subjective answer, according to what better means to you. Better than before? Better than others? I dont care.... The point of this thread is not about arguing the meaning of the word "better".

I hate it when the original question of a thread gets lost in all the meaningless bickering among nitpickers about something that is entirely besides the point, just because they feel they HAVE to argue.... in that instance, I suppose I miss ed...

Now you're just going around in circles.