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order of the chopin etudes easiest to hardest?

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chopin etudes easiest to hardest (Read 58005 times)

Offline smj9195

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chopin etudes easiest to hardest
« on: February 08, 2010, 04:29:04 AM »
can some one give me the order of chopin etudes easiest to hardes?
(both op.10 and op.25)

Sheet music to download and print: Etudes by Chopin



Offline stevebob

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 05:21:06 AM »
Difficulty can refer to interpretive demands as well as technical challenges.  The degree of technical challenge can depend, among other things, on whether you aspire to the speed of a professional performance (or even the original metronome markings) or to your own conception of the verbal tempo indication (usually some variation of Allegro rather than Presto).

I think it's most useful to classify Chopin's etudes in categories.  Even if such categories overlap or blur, a general consensus is more likely to be achieved than by proposing a strictly linear ranking from easiest to hardest.

Slower Group:
10/3, 10/6, 25/7

Easier Group:
10/5, 10/9, 10/12, 25/1, 25/2, 25/9

Harder Group:
10/1, 10/2, 10/4, 10/7, 10/8, 25/3, 25/4, 25/8, 25/12

Hardest Group:
10/10, 10/11, 25/5, 25/6, 25/10, 25/11
 
This isn't meant to be anything more than my opinion; the case could definitely be made that some of the "Harder" etudes belong in the "Hardest" group and vice versa.

FWIW, I would put each of the Trois Nouvelles Etudes in the "Slower" group (though the one in D-flat major is faster and harder than the other two).
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 10:10:45 AM »
There's not much point in trying to say wich is easier or harder, since it all depends on the person. Each etude has its own difficulty, and how difficult that actually is depends on for example the size of hands, the way the student got taught etc.
I remember i learned etudes like 10/10 and 25/12 pretty easily, but had quite some problems perfectionizing 10/3 because my pedalling wasnt so good. So for me i have different etudes in the catagories stevebob posted above.

The only etude thats probably for most people on 'hardest', is 25/10 (winterwind) since it needs such a wide range of technique, although to my opinion its not really an etude for that reason.

Gyzzzmo
1+1=11

Offline 3htohn

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #3 on: February 08, 2010, 11:48:37 AM »
Hi Smj9195

I've got no idea of the etudes your talking about but I just thought wow this thread has brought back a memory for me.

I went to a piano lesson once and another student who was just finishing off Chopin's Polonaise (the one that is usually played on the radio). And as I was waiting for my lesson I thought to myself, my G_D wow this is incredible playing, I could never do this... I still carn't. But as the student was playing, the teacher turned around to me with a disinterested look and rolled her eyes. And when he stopped playing she (the teacher) said, next week when you come back I want you to playing with a bit of feeling, THIS IS CHOPIN!, she roared.

Энтони.

Offline smj9195

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #4 on: February 10, 2010, 08:51:05 AM »
My favorite is the Winter wind-op.25 no.11

Offline orangesodaking

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #5 on: February 10, 2010, 01:08:27 PM »
It's different for each pianist.

For me, Op. 10 No. 1 and Op. 25 No. 6 are extremely difficult, and Op. 25 No. 10 and Op. 10 No. 4 is not that hard at all. For others, it could be quite the opposite.

While some etudes ARE a more difficult than some others, there's no way to literally rank them from 1 to 24. I think you can see for yourself which ones are harder and which ones are not quite as difficult.

Offline m

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 08:13:24 AM »
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Offline furtwaengler

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 08:33:06 AM »
I've met one person for whom op. 10 no. 2 came naturally, and he expressed that for him it was one of the easier studies. Much more difficult for him is the other A minor study, op. 25 no. 4.

Op. 10 no. 2 does not come easily to me. Indeed it is very difficult. Some of this is relative, I guess.
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Offline john11inc

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 09:09:00 AM »
I'm so bored I'll actually post in this thread.

25-6
25-11
10-2
10-4
10-1
10-10
10-8
25-8
25-10
10-7
25-12
25-3
25-1
25-4
10-11
25-9
10-5
10-12
25-5
10-9
25-2
25-7
10-3
10-6

Hardest to easiest.  Randomly.  Man, I am so bored xD
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Offline stevebob

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #9 on: March 08, 2010, 12:45:53 PM »
Hi Stevebob,

I am wondering if you play all of the Chopin etudes? The reason I am asking is while indeed, the difficulty is in the eyes of beholder, on the other hand, there are some obvious flaws in your classification. For example, you place the 10/2, 10/7, and 25/8 into the "Harder group", while 10/10, 10/11, and esp. 25/5  (???) into the "Hardest".

The former group should be rather in the "Hardest Group" (esp. if we are talking about op.10/2), and the last etude of your "Hardest goup" (op. 25/5) is actually should be rather in the "Slower" or "Easier Group". The 10/11 is just a matter of hand size, and the 10/10 is quite a comfortable piece, but both would not go into the "Hardest" by any stretch. The 25/12 is rather an "Easier" one and often is the first Chopin etude many students play. 

Throughout many years I've been discussing those etudes with quite a few pianists who not only recorded them all, but also played them live and everyone tends to agree.

As a side note, in different points of my life I played ALMOST all of them and while for me the hardests are still the Op. 25/3 and Op.25/4, to play any of them in a good tempo, with a good quality and with element of WOW is quite a task.

Best, M

Marik,

Earlier, I wrote:

This isn't meant to be anything more than my opinion; the case could definitely be made that some of the "Harder" etudes belong in the "Hardest" group and vice versa.

I thought my disclaimer would be clearly understood.

I'm sorry you find my classification flawed, but your own statements of opinion seem a bit rigid and dogmatic for my tastes.  In particular, I find it hard to believe your claim that "everyone tends to agree" about the respective degrees of challenge in these pieces; in my experience, that's not true at all.  Were it so (and were it so simple to speak as authoritatively as you do about what "should be"), there would hardly be such perennial interest in discussing the etudes.

For what it's worth, I don't agree with any of your own assessments.  You're entitled to your opinions, obviously, but it's always nice to qualify them as such instead of rather emphatically implying that they are incontrovertible and have a superior basis.  Your notion that an etude marked Vivace (i.e., 25/5) could plausibly belong in the Slower category is, in my own judgment, especially nonsensical.

It would probably have been more useful for you to offer your own answer to the original question instead of appearing to attack mine (even if that wasn't your intent).  I gave a modest opinion in good faith based on my knowledge and experience (as well as what I've gleaned from my own discussions with others), and it wasn't intended to be anything more than that.
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline orangesodaking

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #10 on: March 08, 2010, 05:32:45 PM »
There has been some talk in this thread over the difficulty of Op. 10 No. 2, Op. 25 No. 4, and Op. 25 No. 11.

Why not combine them all together like Marc-André Hamelin did?  :D

Offline m

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #11 on: March 08, 2010, 07:56:04 PM »
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Offline stevebob

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #12 on: March 08, 2010, 08:35:21 PM »
Good on you then, Marik.

It looks like you're more interested in one-upmanship than anything else, and I'm not interested.  The best I can do at the moment is honor your own sig line, so I'm done here.
What passes you ain't for you.

Offline m

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #13 on: March 08, 2010, 08:55:23 PM »
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Offline pianowolfi

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #14 on: March 08, 2010, 09:20:32 PM »
This really makes me sad and angry. I understand completely that you, Marik ,are done with this forum.
It's one of these examples where 20 something year old fullofthemselves think they know everything, but everything better than anybody.

And of course I understand that somebody like Marik, who has real knowledge and experience, from which we all could learn so much during the past years, plus who has given us so much with his own wonderful recordings, has now better things to do than argueing with idiots.

I must say, Marik, I admire your patience and it's actually astonishing that you didn't quit earlier, considering this sort of reception...


(And P.S I might actually tell pianistimo....;D...)

Offline Karli

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #15 on: March 08, 2010, 10:28:17 PM »
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Offline pianowolfi

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 10:38:38 PM »
Very true words, Karli. However, I am sad, because to me it seems not only symptomatic for a part of this forum, but even to a whole part of the world, that those who have real knowledge, experience, have something to say, and are, as you rightly say, in all humility true artists, get often sort of crucified by others. As if some people could not stand the fact that somebody knows more than them.

As if the small horizon of an "educated" young person would serve as benchmark for all knowledge: "Nobody can know more than myself, it's not possible"....


Argh....

Offline Karli

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 10:46:19 PM »
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Offline ahinton

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 10:54:28 PM »
There has been some talk in this thread over the difficulty of Op. 10 No. 2, Op. 25 No. 4, and Op. 25 No. 11.

Why not combine them all together like Marc-André Hamelin did?  :D
And he's not the only guilty party here, or so I understand...

Best,

Alistair
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Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline nanabush

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #19 on: March 09, 2010, 03:08:46 AM »
Can we just agree that they're all hellishly difficult? 

If you suck at thirds, Op 25 #6 will be tough; if you have zero musicality, the slow ones (and any other of them) will be tough.  If you suck at octaves, the octave study will be hard.

If you simply don't have the technique to play them, they will clearly seem hard at sight (which is what I think a lot of people have based their 'lists' on).

The lists are fun to compare (which is why I always end up poking around through these ranking threads), but there's ALWAYS an argument somewhere down the thread!  And I would like to add that the etudes that had me stumped after a page or less (I've sat and tried them all, and I've learned four of them now) were the Op 10 #2, 7, 11, and Op 25 #3 and 8.  So, I'd obviously say those would probably be the toughest for me.  I've seen so many pieces with thirds that they don't even scare me anymore... not saying I'm ready for Op 25 #6, but it's just not the most intimidating (nor is the winter wind) in my view.
Interested in discussing:

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Offline Karli

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #20 on: March 09, 2010, 04:41:16 AM »
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Offline stevebob

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What passes you ain't for you.

Offline john11inc

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #22 on: March 13, 2010, 08:28:30 AM »
I'm sorry you find my classification flawed, but your own statements of opinion seem a bit rigid and dogmatic for my tastes.  In particular, I find it hard to believe your claim that "everyone tends to agree" about the respective degrees of challenge in these pieces; in my experience, that's not true at all.

There is absolutely nothing rigid or dogmatic about his commentary; it is self-contradictory, and what is certainly the most sad thing in this thread is how people seem to love to stick their faces in his crap and call it a rose garden, like a bunch of little fan girls shrieking for their pop star.  He contradicts himself by basically stating two things:

1- Opinions do not differ on this matter
2- My opinions differ on etudes [x, y, z]

Obviously he didn't make the insane comment that there is literally no variance in opinion, but these two statements still contradict one another, due to the fact that, if we are to give validity to one, the other is useless.  Either the great majority of these supposedly identical opinions matter, or his opinions on the various, specific etudes he mentioned are valid.  Therefore, to call his opinion either rigid or dogmatic is certainly a misnomer of the most absolutely basic proportions: his commentary is thus worthless, as he proposes an innate dichotomy (I am right vs. they are right: read the second as "I am not right, as my opinion is different"), and takes both sides.  Obviously he does not propose any alternative in which he can be incorrect, instead thinking the arguments that are in complete opposition with his own somehow support each other.

Personally, I can't think of anything more boarish than listing the names of a bunch of people he allegedly knows that allegedly agree with him.  If I cared, I'm sure more pianists I spoke to would agree with the standard notions of which etudes are more difficult than would agree with the ideas Marik has proposed (for the person who started this thread, I can guarantee the list I posted is going to be pretty close to most lists proposed by professional pianists, with the exception of 10-7 and probably 25-8 being shoved up a couple places).  In fact, I'll even take that challenge if he really wants me to.

But back to the subject of this pointless fanboyism, I'm not shocked people are wooing and swooning over his posts in this thread, despite them being self-contradictory and consisting of little more than truisms nobody would argue with, as well as the failed attempts at belittling you and myself (sadly, that little repartee was deleted; I went into much, much, much further detail about how wrong nearly everything he's written here is).  It's very difficult not to insult the boy here when speaking about why there's no reason to take his opinion more seriously than many others', so I'll just leave it to the readers to hopefully figure out why.
If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida


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Offline rachfan

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #23 on: March 13, 2010, 09:45:11 PM »
Given the lack of comity and civility here, I'm very troubled by marik's felt-need to depart from Piano Street.  He's an extraordinary artist.  His being driven out reflects very poorly on this forum in my opinion.  It would seem that members could disagree without being disagreeable, but evidently not.

David
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #24 on: March 13, 2010, 10:12:04 PM »
I think everybody gets tired of a forum at a certain moment, because of the childish behaviour thats sometimes just too annoying to ignore. But thats how forums, and the internet, works.
1+1=11

Offline stevebob

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Re: chopin etudes easiest to hardest
«Reply #25 on: March 13, 2010, 11:10:41 PM »
Given the lack of comity and civility here, I'm very troubled by marik's felt-need to depart from Piano Street.  He's an extraordinary artist.  His being driven out reflects very poorly on this forum in my opinion.  It would seem that members could disagree without being disagreeable, but evidently not.

David

In my opinion, and that of at least two other members here, it was he who couldn't disagree without being disagreeable.  He chose to leave, and nobody drove him out.
What passes you ain't for you.