\"\"
Piano Forum logo

Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo (Read 10631 times)

Offline emill

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
« on: February 15, 2010, 06:43:23 PM »
One of Chopin's well loved Nocturne and often played in student recitals.
Despite its being relatively "simple" the challenge lies in its demand for the
"correct" expression.  This is work in progress and I wish some would pitch in
their ideas and comments on how or what should be done to improve the playing.
So many thanks...

played on a 50 year old Yamaha G3 grand ... recorded into a Toshiba laptop using a
Samson C01U USB Microphone. Music sheet - Copyright 1945 by G. Schirmer.. Inc,
(ASCAP) New York. NY (Frederic Chopin) (1830)

member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

piano sheet music of Nocturne


Offline rafant

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 301
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #1 on: February 25, 2010, 12:08:42 AM »
Hi, I don´t know what could be improved. I liked very much, mood, dynamics, warm touch, clean trills, lightness in scales, delicacy. Very well done, I listened 3 times, and had a good time.

Offline rachfan

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3027
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 04:03:44 AM »
Bravo! This is a beautiful rendition of the C#m Nocturne.  Enzo plays it with both poetry and intensity, always featuring the lovely lyrical line.  Excellent! 
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline kinar

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 1
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #3 on: March 21, 2011, 10:57:24 PM »
I THINK YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE PLAYIN' PIANO, BUT I PLAY THIS ONE TOO, AND I PREFER A STYLE MORE ~FASTER~, I MEAN, THERE ARE PARTS IN THIS PIECE THAT SOUNDS BETTER WHEN YOU CHANGE THE RYTHM, LIKE THE CRECENDOS, ETC, BECAUSE IF YOU ONLY PLAY A QUITELY AND SLOWLY PIECE IT TURNS LIKE BORED, YOU GOT IT?, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CHOPIN PIECE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXPRESION, SO I THINK YOUR PERFORMANCE IS GOOD BUT ONLY THAT, I CAN'T FEEL ANY FEELING LINSTENING TO IT, IT'S LIKE  MONOTONE STUFF, YOU GOT THE THEORY AND THE TECHNIQUE OF PLAYING PIANO, NOW YOU ONLY NEED THE EMOTION OF PLAYING A PIANO MELODY. GOOD LUCK.

Offline musicluvr49

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 213
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 11:21:42 PM »
act that you can't hear the
I THINK YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE PLAYIN' PIANO, BUT I PLAY THIS ONE TOO, AND I PREFER A STYLE MORE ~FASTER~, I MEAN, THERE ARE PARTS IN THIS PIECE THAT SOUNDS BETTER WHEN YOU CHANGE THE RYTHM, LIKE THE CRECENDOS, ETC, BECAUSE IF YOU ONLY PLAY A QUITELY AND SLOWLY PIECE IT TURNS LIKE BORED, YOU GOT IT?, WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A CHOPIN PIECE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EXPRESION, SO I THINK YOUR PERFORMANCE IS GOOD BUT ONLY THAT, I CAN'T FEEL ANY FEELING LINSTENING TO IT, IT'S LIKE  MONOTONE STUFF, YOU GOT THE THEORY AND THE TECHNIQUE OF PLAYING PIANO, NOW YOU ONLY NEED THE EMOTION OF PLAYING A PIANO MELODY. GOOD LUCK.

 ::)

I'd like to hear your rendition of this piece.....
First of all, the tempo should not change. Playing faster when you crescendo makes it sound worse, not better.

Second of all, I dont know how much you know about music... But this piece is marked Lento, and lento means slow...

The fact that you cant hear any expression in Enzo's playing, means you probably don't know what youre talking about. My intention is not to be rude, but dont comment if you dont  know what youre talking about....
Currently:
Chopin Grand Valse Brilliante
Mozart Piano Sonata K 332
Scriabin Preludes Op 11 no.5,6,7
Bach Prelude and Fugue in G minor

Offline emill

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 03:48:51 AM »
To Rachfan, Rafant and musicluvr49,
So many thanks for the wonderful and encouraging comments. As Enzo so often tells me - it makes all the effort worthwhile and more fun knowing one is appreciated. :)

....xxxx... I CAN'T FEEL ANY FEELING LINSTENING TO IT, IT'S LIKE  MONOTONE STUFF, YOU GOT THE THEORY AND THE TECHNIQUE OF PLAYING PIANO, NOW YOU ONLY NEED THE EMOTION OF PLAYING A PIANO MELODY. GOOD LUCK.

"beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" - ... Thanks .....
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline dashmore

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 3
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 07:27:36 AM »
Very nice!  I really liked your RH runs.  You keep the tempo in the LH *exactly* -- many can't and the rhythm gets changed/distorted.  I like your tempo, too.

Thanks for posting.

PS - Thanks for disclosing that you're using the Schirmer edition.  There are enough differences between editions that the information is helpful sometimes.
Currently studying the following:

Chopin -- Etudes Op. 10, No 1, 9
Mozart -- Sonata in F (K332)

Offline pianisten1989

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1525
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #7 on: March 22, 2011, 12:15:21 PM »
I somewhat agree with Kinar. It sounds like a very good student's playing, but still a student. I think you should experiment with playing the right hand rubato, while the left hand is steady. It actually sounds a bit metronomic, and.. Oh, time to run! Iih, sorry, I finish later.

Edit:
There, I'm back.
Look, ofc you play very well but... We can agree that Chopin's nocturnes easily could be written for singers, right? Or at least they should be played with a very cantabile.
Have you ever heard a good singer that sings totally right rhythm? Either that singer is a genius (or not a very good singer at all) or you've never heard any. Part of cantabile is not only the tone, but the rubato. No serious singer would sing his Chopin's nocturnes completely in rhythm. All your trills and ornaments are basically in exact rhythm. And that is kind of.. typical a nice student.
Like the notes right after the trill. Try to sing them in tempo, like you play them, or try to see a real singer sing like that. They wouldn't, because it's not cantabile. I don't want to go into exact how to, cause you wont learn anything. But try to think about it

Offline emill

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #8 on: March 24, 2011, 03:21:58 AM »
hi pianisten1989, :)

Thank you for your observation and suggestion.  I am sorry though that it takes a while for us to reply since i also use the questions posted here for Ezno as a means for dialogue-bonding.  He is such a "silent and moody guy" that his dad often finds difficulty in relating. ;D :o  Ahh.. a senior dad (60+) and his teenage son's (15) dialogue easily deteriorates to monosyllables ::) :).

Yes, Enzo fully agrees with you regarding the "singing" but he says the way he played this was a blend/compromise to his teachers strict sense of tempo and compliance to the piece and his more "romantic" interpretation.

But really I must hand it to his teacher for reining in Enzo's tendency to rush even in passages which requires a lot of "singing" and expression.  Also, I think the real reason was the concern of the teacher to be in compliance with the requirements of those who requested the video. Let me clarify.

Two weeks after the Haiti earthquake, A US based group came up with the idea of a classical piece to be played by children and teens, to help generate funds for children victims of the Haiti earthquake through the American Red Cross.  We accepted the invitation despite the very short time to prepare the video (about 10 days).  As a parent, I was happy with the kids who were to play ...  George Li (1st prize, Cooper International Piano Competition 2010)... Marc Yu (National Geographic - "Brain Child"  or "My Brilliant Brain" to name just two (http://ya4haiti.org/?page_id=6).

However it was repeated so many times to the participants that the tempo/expressions should strictly be complied with since there will be 10 kids playing short portions.  Editing will be extremely difficult if every 15 seconds there was some significant differences between performers.  Just my take. 
here is the video - http://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=36528.0

MANY THANKS AGAIN for the constructive observations and comment!

emill
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline pianisten1989

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1525
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #9 on: March 24, 2011, 06:38:11 AM »
Hi.

1. Now he doesn't have to play with 10 other kids, so he can add some rubato ;)
2. I don't get it, does his teacher say that he play with too much rubato in other pieces? Then it's a bad pick to tell him to play a Chopin nocturne
3. Then, listen to professinal pianists- Arrau, Daniel Pollack, Peter Jablonski, Tamas Vasary... No professional yould play the notes after the trill the way Enzo plays them, some people do more rubato, some do less, but playing them that straight just doesn't work. It doesn't say anything. It's just playing, with no meaning..

Offline emill

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1050
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #10 on: March 24, 2011, 11:49:39 AM »
Hi again! ;D

Frankly Enzo at this early stage is quite opinionated
about certain things regarding playing the piano.  When it comes
to varying the tempo within certain limits for better "singing" and expression
he has no disagreements.  It is just probably the amounts that he has a strong
personal feel about certain pieces.  His teacher has to reign him in sometimes as
he may play a Bach like a romantic piece if he had his way.

Regarding this Chopin piece ... he feels good at the way he has played it considering
the limitations dictated by the music editor but fully understands and appreciates your
viewpoint.  He is though trying to be more conscious about his head movements!  ;D

So many thanks and best wishes !!! 
member on behalf of my son, Lorenzo

Offline rmbarbosa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 08:12:55 PM »
When we talk about Chopin, de word "rubatto" is always present.
But Chopin only used rubatto in his compositions based on polland dances. In all the others, he didnt use the famous rubatto. This is historic. So...

Offline iansinclair

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1472
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #12 on: March 09, 2017, 08:38:27 PM »
When we talk about Chopin, de word "rubatto" is always present.
But Chopin only used rubatto in his compositions based on polland dances. In all the others, he didnt use the famous rubatto. This is historic. So...

There's rubato and the there's rub a  t    o.  But are you suggesting that Chopin would never have used -- or suggested -- rubato to any degree in anything except the dances (do you mean the Mazurkas when you refer to the polland dances).  If so... I fear that either you have much better resources for your opinion than the rest of the musical world, or that you are very much mistaken.  I know of no composer -- from Guillaume duFay to at least Samuel Barber -- who would completely refuse the use of rubato.
Ian

Offline rmbarbosa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 453
Re: Chopin Nocturne No.20 in C Sharp Minor - Enzo
«Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 09:29:14 AM »
there are works about Chopin where it is clear that Chopin only used the rubato in dance pieces, not exclusively mazurkas.
You may wish to explore in the Net those works.
I dont use rubato in the Nocturnes but my performings are not monotones.
Could you have a look to Arrau?
Best wishes
Rui