How many times should I practice the Hanon per day?

[faa2010]

How many times should I practice the Hanon per day?

I ask it so that I can train my hands but at the same time don't get hurt and more pain than it has to be.

[birba]

"more pain then it HAS to be"?!?!?
I think you're starting out on the wrong foot.  You DO have a teacher, don't you?  Begin by avoiding pain.
Seriously.

[allthumbs]

I suggest you try the search function as this topic has been discussed 'ad nauseum' in this Forum.

[go12_3]

Some of the new members aren't familiar with the search and this thread was on
this member's mind.  I think doing any kind of exercises on the piano should be
done in moderation, just a few minutes to warm up, but there should be not pain
at all in your hands and fingers, piano should be  comfortable and enjoyable to
play. 

[faa2010]

Maybe I didn't explained it right, I mean what can be considered to play Hanon moderately in order not to damage your hands.

Like in sports, when you start to train, there has to be pain, as an old saying says: NO PAIN, NO GAIN. Also, if you exaggerate, things can backfire.

Also is in the piano, when you play too much without MODERATION, things can backfire.

[stevebob]

"No pain, no gain" definitely doesn't apply to piano practice.

[faa2010]

But in piano you are training the finger's muscles, isn't it?

And I no mean also physical pain, you have also to learn to distinguish the notes and to read the sheet, to memorize.

Unless I am wrong at interpretating it. Please let me know.

[iroveashe]

But in piano you are training the finger's muscles, isn't it?

No. You are training your coordination, nerve inhibition, finger independency (up to a certain point) and a lot of other stuff that has more to do with the brain and mind-body communication, than with finger muscles, specially since the muscles that move the fingers are not located in the fingers.

As far as your question goes, there's something very important missing:

How many times should you practice the Hanon per day for what?

To play the exercises well? Or to play music well? If it's the first, I have no idea; if it's the second, then 0.

[faa2010]

Thanks for making clear this misunderstanding.

And of course, the principal question is this:

How many times should I practice the Hanon per day and for warming up?

[iroveashe]

Thanks for making clear this misunderstanding.

And of course, the principal question is this:

How many times should I practice the Hanon per day?

Well it seems you ignored half my post.

If you ask a doctor how much medicine should you have, he'd ask you what for?, do you have a headache? Stomach ache? Do you think your body lacks something? Or do you just want some day to day vitamins to be in better health?

In other words, if you're specific with your questions the answers will be more helpful. And the truth is that your question is impossible to answer for me, because even if you were specific, like How many times should I practice this and that Hanon exercise to achieve even, fast and light double trills?, the only way to find that out, is for you to take a piece of paper and a pencil, and write down how many times you practice each exercise, for however long it takes to achieve your goal, and then you have your number. But since you don't even have a specific goal, then you'll never achieve it, therefore there is no right (or wrong) answer at all to your question.

[faa2010]

OK, but you don't have to scorn me for that and not to be unpolite.

[seamonkey]

How many times should I practice the Hanon per day and for warming up?

Once a day is more than enough.  But make sure the 'once' is a clean and focused one, not a sloppy one.   I run through 1/3 of the book once every practice as a warm up routine.  It takes like 15 mins.

[iroveashe]

OK, but you don't have to scorn me for that and not to be unpolite.

I'm just trying to help. If you want to get somewhere, set goals for yourself, mindless practice won't take you very far 

[rmbarbosa]

How many times? Zero times. Hanon isnt useful, isnt good. Please, search Bernhard posts and download www.pianopractice.org/ (Chuan Chang). There are in this forum a lot of posts about Hanon. Take a look.
Best wishes
Rui

[christian4_u]

I will post my opinion. There were a few people who stated above "that no pain no gain doesn't apply to piano". I believe it does apply. Horowitz said and I quote "great finger strength is required to play the piano correctly, but this comes from playing musically, hanon and czerny are merely mechanical and this sort does not help. " I agree somewhat because, if you play your hanon "musically" the fingers will "work out" and get stronger. Let us suppose that we are doing bicep curls, and the norm for muscle gain is 3 reps of 7 for muscle mass to increase, this however is not strength increase, it is muscle gain, strength increase happens with hundreds of reps and a lighter weight. Someone also stated above that the muscles that move the fingers are not located in the hand. This is incorrect. The intrinsic muscles of the hand which allow you to wiggle your finder side to side are located in your hand. These muscles can be developed for "weight playing" where the hand and fingers alone can support the weight of the arm, and eventually allow for effortless playing. Unfortunately, not many people truly play using the "weight playing" technique. Have you ever felt a burn inside your hand when you were trying to play fast or do finger trills? that burn indicates the muscle has been worked out and is tired. After the burn happens, any more repetition of your "exercise" will be futile, as the muscles has already ripped, and must recover when you sleep. Hope this helps.

[adaubre]

The intrinsic muscles of the hand which allow you to wiggle your finder side to side are located in your hand. These muscles can be developed for "weight playing" where the hand and fingers alone can support the weight of the arm, and eventually allow for effortless playing. Unfortunately, not many people truly play using the "weight playing" technique.

Do you know where one can find exercises  that are specifically designed for the "weight playing" technique?  Or is this something
that is done in conjunction with Hanon etc?

adaubre

[birba]

I will post my opinion. There were a few people who stated above "that no pain no gain doesn't apply to piano". I believe it does apply. Horowitz said and I quote "great finger strength is required to play the piano correctly, but this comes from playing musically, hanon and czerny are merely mechanical and this sort does not help. " I agree somewhat because, if you play your hanon "musically" the fingers will "work out" and get stronger. Let us suppose that we are doing bicep curls, and the norm for muscle gain is 3 reps of 7 for muscle mass to increase, this however is not strength increase, it is muscle gain, strength increase happens with hundreds of reps and a lighter weight. Someone also stated above that the muscles that move the fingers are not located in the hand. This is incorrect. The intrinsic muscles of the hand which allow you to wiggle your finder side to side are located in your hand. These muscles can be developed for "weight playing" where the hand and fingers alone can support the weight of the arm, and eventually allow for effortless playing. Unfortunately, not many people truly play using the "weight playing" technique. Have you ever felt a burn inside your hand when you were trying to play fast or do finger trills? that burn indicates the muscle has been worked out and is tired. After the burn happens, any more repetition of your "exercise" will be futile, as the muscles has already ripped, and must recover when you sleep. Hope this helps.

[birba]

Sorry, I meant to comment that last post.  I agree with the excercises of the muscles, and perhaps,(although I doubt it) a little "burn" can occur if you're practising 8 hours a day.  But let's not carry that weight lifting metaphor too far.    I have to insist, that  no pain no gain, does NOT apply to piano practise.

[christian4_u]

Pain in the wrists, forearm (cords) , and finger joints are extremely dangerous, and I agree with that no pain should be felt in this respect.  However, pain(burn) in muscles (in this case finger) is not really pain, by this I mean (intrinsic muscles) located in the palm of the hand, it is the body switching the cells from aerobic respiration to anaerobic because of an inadequate supply to oxygen, creating acid build up that causes the burning sensation. The oxygen is lacking because of trying to overwork the muscles into doing a task that it does not have the proper support for.  In any case, if worked proper, the intrinsic muscles get stronger by mere virtue of their use, and no pain is necessary to become stronger, but as with any workout, the gains will be felt after a good nights rest. Let me clarify to correct my interpretation of "no pain no gain" and equate it to meam "great effort is required" and allow that to mean whatever you think is correct, whether physically and mentally or just mentally. On a side note, if you are not using the full isolation of the intrinsic muscles as is the case with the vast majority of piano players that have not learned the "weight playing" technique, you may not feel a significant "burn" because the muscles that are moving the fingers in this case are not located in the hand, but are moving by muscles that contract the cords located in your arms.

[stevebob]

Any child or the frailest adult already has the requisite "finger strength."  In any case, the fingers are only the distal point for culmination of motions originating in the torso; all along the way, the essential elements of successful execution are control, coordination, stamina, speed, evenness, accuracy, dexterity.  Muscle strength, in the sense of the potential to exert force that moves matter, is a non-issue unless one believes that a sledgehammer is the best tool to drive a nail.

Everybody, whether pianist or pedagogue, seems to have his or her own ideas about physical basis for technique and even an idiosyncratic understanding (or misapprehension) of the terminology to describe it.  A dubious declaration like "great finger strength is required to play the piano correctly" surely reflects that.

Whatever works!  Unfortunately, though, what doesn't work can sometimes injure you.

[christian4_u]

sorry steveBob, sometimes I get confused and think I know what I do not. I will try to be more careful before I post something again.

[stevebob]

As I said, whatever works. 

[m19834]

How many times should I practice the Hanon per day?

As many times as it takes to achieve the desired goal/specific reason for practicing it.