Open Message to Nils

[m]

Hi Nils,

I PM’d you a reply to your message, however, never heard back.

I won’t say much here, except to express my humble opinion, if this was my message board I would be concerned. Have you ever thought why many most qualified and knowledgable members are not here anymore? Where is Koji, where is Arensky, where is Fnork, where are quite a few other folks, who made this board to look at least somewhat professional and gave some credibility? Since then I saw a few of them hanging out on other boards. Do you really think if here there was a healthy, professional atmosphere they would go elsewhere? I don't say there are no other professional and knowledgable folks here. However, I am afraid, one by one you might lose them, as well.

But then again, this is your board and of course, you are free to do whatever you wish.

Best, M

[goldentone]

Marik is right.  As Rachfan and I have discussed, the audition room in particular has become a romper room--anything goes.  Pianostreet has taken on a much different character than what I was introduced to when I joined the site a few years ago.  As Marik said, the ones with knowledge and ability have become an endangered species.  These people, of which you would find Marik in the midst, gave the site its worth and grace.  

[stevebob]

People who feel intimidated and threatened by those who they fear may have equal (or even superior) knowledge and ability are small and inconsequential.  If "knowledge and ability have become an endangered species," one big reason is that those people and their disproportionately vocal minions create an inhospitable environment.

From the viewpoint of this newcomer, there's certainly no welcome wagon extended to anyone who actually fits the description you posit of the ideal participant here—so I think it's just camouflage for some self-indulgent nostalgia and xenophobia.  Maybe people who actually know how to play piano, who are far more likely to dispense advice and feedback than to require it and who enjoy communication with like-minded individuals have better uses for their time and energy.

In any case, people come and go.  Things change.  There's no sustained stasis or equilibrium except in the memories of those who cluck their tongues and long for the good old days before the neighborhood changed.

[ramseytheii]

People who feel intimidated and threatened by those who they fear may have equal (or even superior) knowledge and ability are small and inconsequential.  If "knowledge and ability have become an endangered species," one big reason is that those people and their disproportionately vocal minions create an inhospitable environment.

From the viewpoint of this newcomer, there's certainly no welcome wagon extended to anyone who actually fits the description you posit of the ideal participant here—so I think it's just camouflage for some self-indulgent nostalgia and xenophobia.  Maybe people who actually know how to play piano, who are far more likely to dispense advice and feedback than to require it and who enjoy communication with like-minded individuals have better uses for their time and energy.

In any case, people come and go.  Things change.  There's no sustained stasis or equilibrium except in the memories of those who cluck their tongues and long for the good old days before the neighborhood changed.

I think this is an insightful post.  I wonder about the motivation behind the original post.  What does marik think pianoforum is doing wrong?  I would be curious to know.

Walter Ramsey

[m]

I wonder about the motivation behind the original post.  What does marik think pianoforum is doing wrong?  I would be curious to know.

Hi Walter,

For starters you can review this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=36649.0

Please keep in mind, Nils deleted SteveBob's message to Karli--probably the most offensive I ever seen on this board, which had a word usually Gentlemen do not use towards Ladies. Hopefully, it comes through that we are talking not about matter of intimidation of alledged here qualifications of that particular individual, but rather his persona.

Best, M

[stevebob]

As to personas, my posts speak for themselves.  So do yours, and your motivation is transparent.

[m]

As to personas, my posts speak for themselves.  So do yours, and your motivation is transparent.

Walter is one of the most rational, independently thinking, and insightful posters here. I'd rather listen to his unbiased opinion.

Best wishes, M

[birba]

The chat room is back!

[synthex]

Please keep in mind, Nils deleted SteveBob's message to Karli--probably the most offensive I ever seen on this board, which had a word usually Gentlemen do not use towards Ladies.

I was beginning to think nobody else saw that.

As to personas, my posts speak for themselves. 

Absolutely.

[thalbergmad]

It takes all sorts to make the World go round.

I love everyone here equally, but some more than others.

Massed group hug.

Thal

[synthex]

Massed group hug.

[stevebob]

Walter is one of the most rational, independently thinking, and insightful posters here.

I doubt you could recognize those traits, but I'm glad he's survived in a culture that seems to call for reason, independent thought and insight to be banished.

I'd rather listen to his unbiased opinion.

An allegedly "unbiased opinion" is often anything but.  Rather than reaching a conclusion deductively based on examination of evidence, some people's "unbiased opinions" are no more than the spin that they put on any detail they can find that might conceivably support their predetermined judgment and serve their agenda.

To start out with a conclusion and work backwards to seek evidence to substantiate it is a logical fallacy (and the very definition of "prejudice"), but there you have it.  And when personal animus is strong enough, people lie.  If you can't find the evidence you need, fabricate it!  Why settle for mere distortions of facts when you can make up your own?

[synthex]

To start out with a conclusion and work backwards to seek evidence to substantiate it is a logical

Like Dunning and Kruger?

[m]

An allegedly "unbiased opinion" is often anything but.  Rather than reaching a conclusion deductively based on examination of evidence, some people's "unbiased opinions" are no more than the spin that they put on any detail they can find that might conceivably support their predetermined judgment and serve their agenda.

So in other words, here you start questioning Walter's integrity and intelligence, right?

How nice!!!

[stevebob]

Like Dunning and Kruger?

Did they?  I'm not familiar with their research.

I thought that they put a name on something that's almost certainly been seen by most people.  It obviously resonates here, but perhaps incompetent people who are impacted by Dunning-Kruger don't find it useful to be aware of it.  It might even redouble their resolve to sustain a delusion of competence—and rail against anyone who might detect it.

[stevebob]

So in other words, here you start questioning Walter's integrity and intelligence, right?

How nice!!!

Oh no, my remarks had nothing to do with Walter.

But I could have predicted that your spin on what I said would be precisely what it was, so thanks for proving my point.

[pianowolfi]

I was beginning to think nobody else saw that.

I have seen it too and it has left me momentarily speechless, as well as some of the other insults, coming from this "newbie" stevebob.
It seems like in a Kindergarten. Testing the borders/limits. "how much can I insult somebody, until the mods ban me"

It's a common troll behaviour.

[m]

I have seen it too and it made me speechless, as well as some of the other insults, coming from this "newbie" stevebob.
It seems like in a Kindergarten. Testing the borders/limits. "how much can I insult somebody, until the mods ban me"

It's a common troll behaviour.

Absolutely. I very well might be wrong, but everything points to Stevebob got banned from some other forum and came here to express his way overflown ego, with little hints alledging how smart, professional, and knowledgable he is, and how everyone got intimidated by his freakish awesomeness. He even doesn't have enough intelligence to understand how ridiculous it all looks.

I still cannot figure out, he said he learned his 1st Chopin etude 35 years ago, however, has the typical erratical, irrational, and rebellious behavior of a teen.

Best, M

[stevebob]

Ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder, and the emperor has no clothes.  It's beyond sad to try to score points to make yourself look good by belittling others, and yet so revealing that you are so threatened.  You are positively hysterical!

[pianowolfi]

Ridiculousness is in the eye of the beholder, and the emperor has no clothes.  It's beyond sad to try to score points to make yourself look good by belittling others, and yet so revealing that you are so threatened.  You are positively hysterical!

Good self portrait, stevebob, summed up in a few words
If I had not seen and read your deleted post, and seen and read your still visible ones, I would perhaps actually have a bit of doubt but so....

sad enough and symptomatic enough. But after all not too important, I guess.

[stevebob]

Important enough for you to keep beating this dead horse, though, so deep runs your fear and insecurity.

My posts speak for themselves.  You, unfortunately, are left with the need to prevaricate.

[m]

DFTT

[vviola]

Now, I'm not familiar with that one.

[m]

Now, I'm not familiar with that one.

Don't Feed The Troll

[synthex]

Don't Feed The Troll

I agree.  As your signature says. 

I'm still not over that c word thing though.  Shocking.

[john11inc]

Like Dunning and Kruger?

More like



with more than just a hint of

[vviola]

Isn't that similar to



+



?

[prongated]

Hi opus10no2! Life much?

[thalberg]

Hi Marik,

I consider myself one of the people you speak of since I have DMA.  I have not been on pianostreet in a very long time.  While there were a lot of nasty people on here, I always just ignored their posts and focused on those I liked and respected.

The reason I have essentially left pianostreet is because after a while my life just changed and I was too busy.  I think most people are like me -- they do things for a season.

[m]

Hi Marik,

I consider myself one of the people you speak of since I have DMA.  I have not been on pianostreet in a very long time.  While there were a lot of nasty people on here, I always just ignored their posts and focused on those I liked and respected.

The reason I have essentially left pianostreet is because after a while my life just changed and I was too busy.  I think most people are like me -- they do things for a season.

Hi Thalberg,

Good to see you back, and good to hear you are busy--means everything's going well and you do a lot of things. Did you get a position?

Of course, you are right, there are seasons. However, I know from private discussions there were a few members who left the board just because of its atmosphere. Indeed, people get threatened--it is a well known fact, idiocy and ignorance always wins. Who wants to deal with that? And so far, it seems Nils not in rush, either.

Scary!

Best, M

[m]

Hi opus10no2! Life much?

Nah, everything points this one is not that Stevie:

1) With all the craziness and narcissism coming through, that Stevie's posts at least had some kind of entertaining value.
2) That Stevie has been here long enough to know everything about "Ignore" features.
3) At least he had enough knowledge of Chopin Etudes to recognize the Op. 10/2 as a pretty darn hard one.
4) He has been long enough on this board to know it is better not to mess with me  .

Best, M

[john11inc]

A recap for Nils, as I'm sure he doesn't want to have to read through all this garbage:

Marik- is acting like a butthurt baby, followed by an entitled butthurt baby, followed by an entitled and self-righteous butthurt baby.  Rapidly losing respectability.

Stevebob- is being an idiot by allowing himself to be goaded into doing the exact things he's whining about Marik doing, thus making himself a hypocrite; also extreme use of flagrantly pseudo-intellectual repartee.  Rapidly losing respectability.

Pianowolfi- is forcefully shoving himself into the middle of something that has absolutely nothing to do with him, and subsequently adding nothing to this piss-poor "conversation" by repeating his fanboyism of Marik over and over again.  Rapidly losing respectability.

Karli- is winning by not getting involved in this grade school garbage.  Maintaining respectability already marred by the other thread(s) this same, stupid conversation is going on in.

Prongated/Synthex- see entry for "pianowolfi", but note there is (somehow) even less substance in their posts, and some of the most failed attempts at humor/emoticon abuse I've ever.  Not-quite-as-rapidly losing respectability in prongated's case; not aware of any user "Synthex" has, nor aware of his affiliation with this.  Thus, hurting his chances at future respectability, I guess?

John11inch/vviola- eating popcorn, watching the monkey gladiators, just generally being awesome, sexy and hilarious.  Already have no respectability for being too cool for school.


Carry on.

[gyzzzmo]

Silly replies are great for being ignored, or for being made fun of.
I've been hanging around here (now and then) from since like 2002 and have seen many, MANY of these kids with silly replies, trolling and big talk about how they played Chopins 'autumn winds'-etude when they were 2 year old.

My point is, if those people are obviously that silly, why take them so seriously?
As our dear big and hairy friend Thal already stated; lets hug our fellow (serious) posters and continue.

Gyzzzmo

[pianowolfi]

Haha I think Nils isn't gonna read this anymore as he supposedly took all the popcorn being around, and the money from ps, and made a bolt for the Maledives....

[nilsjohan]

Thanks for your concerns!  
I agree with Marik's initial point that keeping the highly competent members is important, but as already mentioned, people come and go for many different reasons.

Hand picking members telling them how and what to discuss would be an effective way to create a condensed resource of quality information as opposed to the more open strategy where self moderation and openness make the atmosphere very dynamic and the forum climate ever changing, causing the forum community to live its own life.
It is all a matter of finding the optimal balance between these two extremes and perhaps we are currently in a situation where we need to move the direction more towards the first in order to avoid a negative spiral.
We will carefully consider this and all kinds of concrete suggestions are, as always, very welcome in the form of new topics on this "PF Website" board.

Except for Thal's simple but brilliant suggestion there is one thing to keep in mind for everyone: When getting into frustrating conversations it is a much more clever long term strategy to click the "report to moderator" link and express your view instead of officially posting insulting "reviews" of other members' behaviour and personality.


Please don't worry, pianowolfi, I am still in Piano Street's office but I actually just finished my popcorn.