Concert Pianists Without Absolute Pitch?

[un_etudiant]

Dear all:

Is anyone aware of a known concert pianist today who does not possess absolute pitch?

Cheers,
John

[scottmcc]

I don't know which ones do and don't have perfect pitch, but the estimate I read is that only about 10% of professional musicians have perfect pitch.  (I think I read this in "This is your brain on music.")  I would have thought it higher.

[synthex]

?

[perfect_pitch]

Absolute pitch isn't as helpful as many people think...

Really - you don't think so? I have a memory like no other when it comes to music thanks to my perfect pitch. I can remember sheet music and recall and play it from memory...

I can play pieces not touched for years...

Perfect Pitch is great!   

[mephisto]

As for the original topic:

From the top of my head:
Andsnes
Hamelin
Rubinstein

Sources: Interviews and wikipedia.

Others can help complete this list.

[synthex]

?

[avetma]

Really - you don't think so? I have a memory like no other when it comes to music thanks to my perfect pitch. I can remember sheet music and recall and play it from memory...

I can play pieces not touched for years...

Perfect Pitch is great!    

Why do you think perfect pitch has much to do with it? I do not have perfect pitch, and I can still play pieces not touched for years, and write down any bach fugue I ever played. It's just a thing called - memory.

Perfect pitch is not as useful as many people think. Understanding of music theory is.

[synthex]

?

[synthex]

?

[simonjp90]

Really - you don't think so? I have a memory like no other when it comes to music thanks to my perfect pitch. I can remember sheet music and recall and play it from memory...

I can play pieces not touched for years...

Perfect Pitch is great!   

when you go to hear some of the top ensembles in the world in all areas, if theyre the slightest bit out of tune it ruins the whole performance for you.

i went to see the gabrieli consort at sage last term & they went flat in a howells piece, it kills you inside when it happens to professional groups

whats even worse is when youre with people that dont have perfect pitch or even good relative pitch, people that will never understand what it feels like

[tompilk]

As for the original topic:

From the top of my head:
Andsnes
Hamelin
Rubinstein

Sources: Interviews and wikipedia.

Others can help complete this list.

Hi, just to clarify: is this a list of people who do, or do not have perfect pitch? I know that Hamelin definitely does.

[lostinidlewonder]

I sort of have perfect pitch but I usually refer the notes to C (which I know the sound of) and calculate what note it is. I also know what chord/scale/arpeggio and other pattern families sound like which I think is more important than just knowing a single notes value.

I know people who can just say the note as soon as they hear it, I think that is a very interesting skill but unnecessary to be a professional pianist. I think it is more important to be able to hear what you have done wrong if you play a wrong note and immediately understand how to correct it via sound. Being able to simply identify notes you hear doesn't help unless you can apply it in some way.

[perfect_pitch]

Perfect pitch is when you hear a note, and you know if it is even slightly out of tune.  A police siren in the street, a child screaming, a bird singing etc etc.  If you have perfect pitch if any of these are even slightly off within your frame of reference (ie A at 440Hz) it will irritate you beyond belief.  

When you're born with it - you get used to it after a number of years... Learning music helps though, because you begin to accept different frequencies and different reference tuning points...
I remember trying to play a piano that was a whole semiton out of tune about 15 years ago - Although my muscle memory was good, I still kept switching between C major and C# major trying to correct it but couldn't - after a while I got used to it... It's about trying to train your thought to partially ignore that thought "that's not quite in tune" and since I've taught high school students and watched the australian idol auditions - you get used to it very quickly...   

I don't doubt you have perfect pitch, there is no way of telling over the internet, but if you think that being able to memorise music means you have it you are very much mistaken.

You misread my post - it's BECAUSE of my perfect pitch that I can memorise so well... Plus - I don't need to play the piece to memorise it either - I just hear it in my head.

[nanabush]

I have perfect pitch, and there is one pretty big thing that I don't like about it.

In solfege, if a passage is given in G major, and I have to sing up to a G above middle C (I'm a guy, in case my name didn't give it away haha), I will either strain my voice or sound like a woman.  Any other person in my class can just take a lower starting pitch (like E or Eb) and sing the same melody, ignoring what 'G' is actually supposed to sound like.  This 'movable do' concept I understand, but the actual sound of what 'G' is is completely wired in my brain, so I can't just move a G major melody down to Eb and make it sound good. 


Other than that, I destroy any dictation test thrown at me, and I can usually repeat what someone was just playing without seeing their hands.

[un_etudiant]

I just want to be clear - I am not questioning the utility of absolute pitch.  I know exactly what it is, what it does, what it is useful for, and so forth. 

Although many will protest, almost all of the pianists I know who have reliable memory in performance possess absolute pitch.  This is why I ask if anyone knows of a touring concert pianist, making his/her living in performance of recitals and concerto appearances, who simply has a very advanced relative pitch.

Thank you,
John

[gyzzzmo]

I see absolutely no connection between perfect pitch and memory.

[synthex]

?

[perfect_pitch]

Well... whatever - All I know is that I have perfect pitch and have been told that by a number of piano teachers, lecturers and university staff. I was born with it - so I don't really know the specifics of what perfect pitch is... I just accept it.

[theodore]

At an outdoor chamber concert in Germany I was in the violin section and one of the pieces was the Marcello D minor oboe concerto accompanied by strings and harpsichord.

During the second movement all of the strings noticed that, due to the extremely humid weather, the oboe was slowly getting sharper and sharper and the harpsichord was playing softer and softer. The orchestra slowly adjusted to the pitch alteration.  However, the conductor, who had perfect pitch, was looking more worried as time went on even though the interpretation was sounding exceptionally inspired.

Beginning with the third movement the harpsichord player had enough sense to stop playing and the conductor continued with strings and oboe. The end of the concerto was musically brilliant and the conclusion was followed by a standing ovation.

Ted Kruzich 
 

[jbmorel78]

The only one I can think of offhand is Aimard...  And even that I am not certain about.

Best,
JBM

[birba]

Rubenstein didn't have perfect pitch?!  Amazing.  I think it's overrated, as well.  It gets in the way when you play on a baroque instrument or a piano that's a semitone out of tune.  On the other hand, I think it does help with the memory some.

[jbmorel78]

Rubenstein didn't have perfect pitch?!  Amazing.  I think it's overrated, as well.  It gets in the way when you play on a baroque instrument or a piano that's a semitone out of tune.  On the other hand, I think it does help with the memory some.

When developed properly, the benefits far outweigh the down sides...  These bits about the pain of having to deal with out of tune instruments are mostly consolation for those without absolute pitch.

[synthex]

?

[birba]

When developed properly, the benefits far outweigh the down sides...  These bits about the pain of having to deal with out of tune instruments are mostly consolation for those without absolute pitch.

The piano has to be at least a half-tone (for me a whole tone) down or up to cause any havoc.  But besides the circus tricks I did for my father when I was a kid, I still say the benefits are overrated.  What drives me up the wall is when a violinist complains about the piano being 438 instead of 440...

[horowitzian]

The piano has to be at least a half-tone (for me a whole tone) down or up to cause any havoc.  But besides the circus tricks I did for my father when I was a kid, I still say the benefits are overrated.  What drives me up the wall is when a violinist complains about the piano being 438 instead of 440...

I don't think I'd play a piano that's a whole-tone sharp for safety's sake!! 

[richard black]

Two more concert pianist I happen to know - Nelson Goerner has perfect pitch, and Ronald Stevenson does too. Oh, and the late John Ogdon. And Julian Jacobson. And I actually can't think of any concert pianists who I know for sure _don't_ have it.

I have it (though I'm not strictly a concert pianist). I don't really see why it should be related to memory causally, thought there may be an incidental link. My memory's not bad but it's not outstanding.

There's also confusion about perfect pitch and sensitivity to out-of-tune playing. I'm not as sensitive to that as some people I know who don't have perfect pitch. Just a question of what one is used to listening out for. String players (well, good ones) are all dead fussy about tuning: pianists tend to be sloppy because it's not our job!

As for playing at way different pitch, one can get used to it. I've played pianos well over a semitone flat, and violins up to a semitone sharp, with no real discomfort after the first few bars.

[gyzzzmo]

I heard (somewhere) that people with perfect pitch also are great scrabble players and are very good at fixing plumbing issues.

[birba]

and mixing great martinis...

[scottmcc]

There's also confusion about perfect pitch and sensitivity to out-of-tune playing. I'm not as sensitive to that as some people I know who don't have perfect pitch. Just a question of what one is used to listening out for. String players (well, good ones) are all dead fussy about tuning: pianists tend to be sloppy because it's not our job!

As for playing at way different pitch, one can get used to it. I've played pianos well over a semitone flat, and violins up to a semitone sharp, with no real discomfort after the first few bars.

I don't have perfect pitch, but I'm very sensitive to out of tune playing.  but not so much on an absolute basis as a relative basis...I can pick out instantly the wrong note from a line, but I couldn't tell you necessarily that something had been transposed into a different key or was at 440 instead of 438.

an interesting aside about perfect pitch...apparently its much more common in people who speak languages where intonation matters, such as Vietnamese or Mandarin.  this seems to imply that it is at least to a certain extent something which can be learned, but the basis for that learning is not well understood, despite breathless claims to the contrary by various "learn perfect pitch instantly" internet hucksters.

[point of grace]

does Martha Argerich have it?
Bruno Gelber does.

[gyzzzmo]

does Martha Argerich have it?
Bruno Gelber does.

Dont think so, she's a pretty bad scrabble player, not to mention her plumbing.

[point of grace]

ha ha, i think she will never reveal that

[mephisto]

Hi, just to clarify: is this a list of people who do, or do not have perfect pitch? I know that Hamelin definitely does.

It is a list of concert pianist who have perfect pitch. Of course there are many more, I just can't remember others from the top of my head.

[mephisto]

It is a list of concert pianist who have perfect pitch. Of course there are many more, I just can't remember others from the top of my head.

Ouch! He asked for pianist who doesn't have it...

[un_etudiant]

Ouch! He asked for pianist who doesn't have it...

Thank you...

Again, to anyone listening :-)

Does anyone know of a concert pianist who does NOT have absolute pitch?

Patiently,
John

[richard black]

So far no one seems to know for sure of any concert pianists without PP, but then unless one knows someone pretty well it's hard to be sure - just because it's never been mentioned in an interview or article that pianist X has perfect pitch, it doesn't necessarily mean (s)he hasn't got it.

[jcabraham]

At an outdoor chamber concert in Germany I was in the violin section and one of the pieces was the Marcello D minor oboe concerto accompanied by strings and harpsichord.

During the second movement all of the strings noticed that, due to the extremely humid weather, the oboe was slowly getting sharper and sharper and the harpsichord was playing softer and softer. The orchestra slowly adjusted to the pitch alteration.  However, the conductor, who had perfect pitch, was looking more worried as time went on even though the interpretation was sounding exceptionally inspired.

Beginning with the third movement the harpsichord player had enough sense to stop playing and the conductor continued with strings and oboe. The end of the concerto was musically brilliant and the conclusion was followed by a standing ovation.

Ted Kruzich 
 

Since it must have been an early music performance, I wonder if the conductor's perfect pitch caused him problems from the beginning.

From what I've read, perfect pitch is an innate ability, but the pitches must be calibrated to something. So a person with PP learns (without realizing it) that 440 Hz is a' (or whatever). But that depends on the instrument used and the training. If the PP person learns on an out-of-tune piano (consistently out of tune in consistently the same way), that's what he or she will hard-wire.

An early music performance is usually at a lower pitch, often a=415, or even a=395. So to a perfect pitch person, they're not playing in C (for example), but B, or Bb. Must be a strange adjustment to make.

[pianist7]

I don't know, but is perfect pitch truly that important? It's nice to have, but...

[maestro1987]

Perfect pitch have a very little to do with memorising a piece. I don't have perfect pitch but have no trouble playing without sheet due to my speciality (medicine) that requires good memory.
Probably most musicians including pianists have extremely well developed relative pitch.

OT: I don't understand how several people are not disturbed by out of tune piano.  

[thalberg]

I would guess that any famous pianist would have perfect pitch.  No one has found otherwise yet.

When I was a doctoral student, I was literally the only pianist without perfect pitch.  Everyone else had it.  When you get up to the highest levels (not just professionals, but the best professionals), usually people have it.

[kelly_kelly]

It doesn't surprise me that perfect pitch helps with memory. My piano teacher always forgets that I don't have perfect pitch since (apparently) I learn/memorize pieces relatively quickly. The truth is that I don't even have decent relative pitch: I just listen to lots of music... 

[mohab95]

I do not possess absolute pitch yet have no problems memorizing long complicated pieces in their original key. AP has nothing to do with musical memory. They are two entirely different matters in fact. My father who never learnt music memorized all the beethoven symphonies and can say if I played a wrong note from the Liszt transcription. It's a talent of its own, just like AP, but it definitely can be trained unlike AP.