Piano Forum

Piano Forum »
Piano Board »
Repertoire »
Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down

Topic: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks? (Read 40155 times)

malwambi

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 30

Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

on: March 17, 2010, 04:52:59 AM

Even those who like Schumann still think his concerto is lousy.

Why?

I just don't get it. I don't particularly like or dislike his concerto, but why is it so popular if it sucks so bad?

Logged

horowitzian

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 85

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 05:59:02 AM

My guess would be because it really is overplayed. It is rather easy to develop a distaste for music that is simply played too much, e.g. Für Elise, Fantasie Impromptu, etc.

Logged

john11inc

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 550

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 08:36:34 AM

The same reason so many people dislike the Bruch Violin Concerto, despite it getting played constantly. It's trashy; popular with common audiences, not so much with serious music listeners.

Logged

If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida

https://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

ahinton

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 12149

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 09:37:34 AM

Quote from: john11inch on March 17, 2010, 08:36:34 AM

The same reason so many people dislike the Bruch Violin Concerto, despite it getting played constantly. It's trashy; popular with common audiences, not so much with serious music listeners.

I wouldn't go as far as to use the term "trashy", although it is undoubtedly Schumann at far below his best and, boy, is it repetititititive! - especially that galumphing finale. The middle movement seems to be the most redeemable of its three but, even here, it seems (to me, at least) rather vapid and lacking in any of the real depth of which Schumann was elsewhere capable. The Bruch FIRST violin concerto (! - that says it all, really, does it not? - people call it that in spite of his having composed three of them) strikes me as a rather better work than the Schumann piano concerto, although his other two violin concertos are somewhat more interesting; that said, I cannot help but feel that Bruch always ultimately ends up providing the impression of a kind of "I-wish-I-were-Brahms-but-I'm-not" composer. But it is the Schumann concerto that is the topic here and, if one compares it to his Études Symphoniques or any of his best multi-movement works such as the Piano Quintet and the Fantaisie, the sheer dull emptiness of much of the concerto becomes all too uncomfortably apparent. Constantly having it performed does it no favours at all - indeed, to some, it has the very opposite effect.

Best,

Alistair

Logged

Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

argerichfan

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 353

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #4 on: March 17, 2010, 03:58:49 PM

Quote from: malwambi on March 17, 2010, 04:52:59 AM

I just don't get it. I don't particularly like or dislike his concerto, but why is it so popular if it sucks so bad?

What I don't get is why that magnificent Introduction & Allegro Op. 134 is so unaccountably neglected! I cannot recall the last time I saw it on a program, and it doesn't pop up on the radio very often.

Otherwise, I've never been particularly bothered by the concerto's popularity. It certainly wouldn't influence a decision to attend a concert, unless, of course, it featured Ms. Argerich. But you have to admit- there are some good tunes, the piano writing is fluent, and it makes a nice impression on the ear. I can certainly understand its popularity. (And I don't mean to be damning with faint praise!)

Logged

stevebob

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1133

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #5 on: March 17, 2010, 04:17:17 PM

Quote from: argerichfan on March 17, 2010, 03:58:49 PM

What I don't get is why that magnificent Introduction & Allegro Op. 134 is so unaccountably neglected! I cannot recall the last time I saw it on a program, and it doesn't pop up on the radio very often.

Well, you know what Friskin and Freundlich (in Music for the Piano) had to say about that: "A labored product of Schumann's declining powers, with little of his real quality."

Of course, I don't agree! I just think that's a fascinating comment (and an equally captivating commentary on how subjective such statements are).

Do opinions like that one reflect reality, or do they shape it? A piece is underplayed because it's assumed to be bad, while simultaneously assumed to be bad because it's underplayed—and people who wish to hear it and decide for themselves really have to make an effort to do so. Sometimes it's well worth it.

Logged

What passes you ain't for you.

jbmorel78

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 84

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #6 on: March 17, 2010, 04:25:38 PM

Quote from: malwambi on March 17, 2010, 04:52:59 AM

Even those who like Schumann still think his concerto is lousy.

Why?

I just don't get it. I don't particularly like or dislike his concerto, but why is it so popular if it sucks so bad?

Setting aside the issue of whether or not popularity and quality are related...

I believe it to be largely a matter of ignorance and superficiality. Anyone who would use the word "suck(s)" with regard to a piece such as this is not worth being taken seriously. We may find things repetitive, uninspired, awkwardly constructed, unimaginative, monochromatic, and so forth, but to speak about a staple of the repertoire in such blunt and crude terms is idiotic.

JBM

Logged

birba

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3725

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #7 on: March 17, 2010, 04:27:39 PM

Argerich sure loves it.

Logged

stucoy

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 54

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #8 on: March 17, 2010, 05:07:32 PM

Quote from: birba on March 17, 2010, 04:27:39 PM

Argerich sure loves it.

I love her. Of course, I have the recording made when she was 11, and it is of course, astonishing.

Logged

malwambi

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 30

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #9 on: March 17, 2010, 07:08:41 PM

Quote from: jbmorel78 on March 17, 2010, 04:25:38 PM

Setting aside the issue of whether or not popularity and quality are related...

I believe it to be largely a matter of ignorance and superficiality. Anyone who would use the word "suck(s)" with regard to a piece such as this is not worth being taken seriously. We may find things repetitive, uninspired, awkwardly constructed, unimaginative, monochromatic, and so forth, but to speak about a staple of the repertoire in such blunt and crude terms is idiotic.

JBM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh my goodness!

That just made my day.

HAHAAHAHAHAAA!!

"Crude!" "Idiotic!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Wow.

Logged

vviola

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 95

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #10 on: March 17, 2010, 07:12:27 PM

It was written by Schumman. He composed Träumerei.

Logged

stevebob

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1133

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #11 on: March 17, 2010, 07:17:30 PM

Quote from: malwambi on March 17, 2010, 07:08:41 PM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh my goodness!

That just made my day.

HAHAAHAHAHAAA!!

"Crude!" "Idiotic!"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Wow.

I'm confused! (I can't tell whether you agree with JBM or not.)

But coincidentally, a thread was started today in the "Anything but piano" subforum called The most idiotic statements you've ever heard?

Logged

What passes you ain't for you.

slow_concert_pianist

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 223

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #12 on: March 18, 2010, 03:26:21 AM

The Schumann 3rd movement is enormously challenging because of the integration between piano and orchestra. There are an extremely high number of poor interpretations of that concerto, thus.

Jealousy and malice are poor cousins I'm told. Can any of you play the Schumann concerto as the composer has instructed?

Logged

Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

weissenberg2

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 579

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #13 on: March 18, 2010, 11:13:39 AM

I agree it can get repetitive, but it is not a bad piece. It is not one of his best pieces, but it is a good concerto.

And plenty of serious music listeners do like it, there is a reason why many musicians play it...

Logged

"A true friend is one who likes you despite your achievements." - Arnold Bennett

richard black

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2104

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #14 on: March 18, 2010, 11:29:19 AM

Some like it, some don't. Some on either side choose to justify their position by getting awful snobbish about the opposing party. The simple fact is, however, that if you don't like it you don't have to go and hear it, or play it, and if you do like it there are plenty of recordings and performances to enjoy.

So both sides win, and as a side-effect we get some intermittently amusing correspondence on PS about it. Hurrah!

Logged

Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

orangesodaking

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 405

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #15 on: March 18, 2010, 10:41:56 PM

Quote from: stevebob on March 17, 2010, 04:17:17 PM

Do opinions like that one reflect reality, or do they shape it? A piece is underplayed because it's assumed to be bad, while simultaneously assumed to be bad because it's underplayed—and people who wish to hear it and decide for themselves really have to make an effort to do so. Sometimes it's well worth it.

Stevebob, you are totally right! Also, I like Schumann's Concerto.

Logged

liordavid

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 169

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 12:51:41 AM

The thing about the piece is so many people think that it is easier then much of his other repetoire in the 1st movement which is the movement that i think is most repetetive. the 3rd movement kicks in

Logged

furtwaengler

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1357

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 03:48:57 AM

I love Schumann. His concerto has often suffered because of certain approaches...the accepted performance practice is outstandingly stale and limiting. My favorite recording, or I should say *the* performance I adore is the broadcast of March 1942, Walter Gieseking with the Berlin Philharmonic, hanging on for dear life, clinging to Wilhelm Furtwängler's extreme, exaggerated, overwhelming, over-the-top, over-everything conception...probably a once in a lifetime of the composition performance. Furtwängler overpowers the piece with his personality; it is anything but "restrained romanticism." It is the very embodiment of the romantic spirit at the hands of a possessed genius amongst the tragic volatility of Hitler's Germany, which Furtwängler vehemently opposed.

Nobody else has done such with Schumann, save Sviatoslav Richter...a live performance of the Fantaisie from 1948, and oh my, the most phenomenal Dichterliebe *in Russian* with **Nina Dorliac**! But Furtwängler...1st Symphony++, Piano Concerto+, 4th Symphony++++.

Schumann is actually one of the most important composers in my life, language wise, influence wise. (This post will serve also as a reply to malwambi's other Schumann thread. Richter. Furtwängler. Try it, people!)

(Oh and concerning the concerto, Radu Lupu was probably the turning point in my understanding).
(Also Enescu playing the 2nd violin sonata, Szeryng playing the violin concerto...this is a very performer/recording related post.)

Logged

Don't let anyone know where you tie your goat.

teccomin

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 49

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #18 on: May 09, 2010, 03:54:26 AM

I always tend to develop distaste for overplayed music. Its probably the same happening with Schumann. But to be honest, it didn't quite impress me the first time i hear it either. It has notes all over the place, it doesn't seem to tell a story. I hate Tchaik too, but only subjectively.

Logged

carrot_cake

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 10

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #19 on: May 21, 2010, 12:40:14 PM

really, i quite enjoy playing it. especially the cadenza at the end of the first movement, great fun!

Logged

redbaron

Sr. Member
Posts: 359

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #20 on: December 31, 2010, 11:45:50 AM

The first movement of the Schumann concerto is possibly my favourite piano concerto movement (I would go for Rimsky-Korsakov's piano concerto but it's in single movement form) which is ironic considering that I find the overwhelming majority of Schumann's piano music to be utter bilge and I'm not that keen on concerti in general.

Logged

pianist1976

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 506

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #21 on: December 31, 2010, 12:24:16 PM

Quote

Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

"Who" are these so many? I want names

Logged

john11inc

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 550

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #22 on: December 31, 2010, 01:18:40 PM

Quote from: jbmorel78 on March 17, 2010, 04:25:38 PM

I believe it to be largely a matter of ignorance and superficiality. Anyone who would use the word "suck(s)" with regard to a piece such as this is not worth being taken seriously. We may find things repetitive, uninspired, awkwardly constructed, unimaginative, monochromatic, and so forth, but to speak about a staple of the repertoire in such blunt and crude terms is idiotic.

To speak of speaking in such blunt and crude terms as "idiotic" is idiotic. Pardon my irony.

Logged

If this work is so threatening, it is not because it's simply strange, but competent, rigorously argued and carrying conviction.

-Jacques Derrida

https://www.youtube.com/user/john11inch

musichristina

PS Silver Member
Newbie
Posts: 2

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #23 on: January 09, 2011, 06:21:10 AM

WHAT!! THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS! I LOVE THIS CONCERTO. AND I LOVE SCHUMANN IN GENERAL. <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 I seem to have an affinity with Schumann (along with Beethoven), mainly because our personalities are so similar. I master the artistry in his pieces so much faster than when playing any other composer's pieces... ANYWAY, anyone who dislikes it probably just heard a very poor performance of it. I find it impossible to dislike a piece if I hear a performance or recording of it that makes me feel emotions that cannot be described accurately with words, and of course, drift off into lala land.

Logged

Current Repertoire:<br />Grieg Concerto, Beethoven Sonata Op. 7, Bach WTC g minor P&F Book 1, Schumann Faschingsschwank aus Wien, Copland Passacaglia, Chopin Etude Op. 25 No. 12, Chopin Ballade No. 2

birba

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 3725

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #24 on: January 09, 2011, 09:10:00 AM

Tocca a te, Thal!

Logged

thalbergmad

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 16741

Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?

Reply #25 on: January 09, 2011, 12:21:34 PM

Chords: bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang.

The opening is the only part of minor interest. The rest is pure trash.

But what would one expect from Schumann?. Rubbish pianist, even worse critic and average composer at best.

Thal

Logged

Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society