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Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks? (Read 21563 times)

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #100 on: October 04, 2014, 03:58:28 PM »
I don't know... I suppose it depends upon what you think a piano concerto should be about, really!

I think Chopin's concerti are exceptional works, the E minor in particular never fails to amaze me when played well. Considering the young age of the composer at the time they were written only makes them even more impressive, in my opinion!

Ofcourse it is true that it all depends on what you expect from a pianoconcert.
But the easiest way of composing a pianoconcert is by writing a pianopiece and creating a bit extra volume by adding bass and violins. And it must sound like cursing in the church for most people here, but i once performed the 2nd pianoconcert and i couldnt get the feeling off me that the orchestra was completely pointless. The conductor also told me that people love listening to these pieces, but it is really boring to be in the orchestra since its all long notes and no 'duel with the pianist', like you see in rachmaninoff concertos.

Gyzzzmo
1+1=11

Offline mjames

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #101 on: October 04, 2014, 06:40:09 PM »
I agree with you gym. I love the chopin concertos and all but whenever I see a video or a live concert f an orchestra performing it, THEY ALL LOOK BORED. It's just one of those pieces where it would sound the same even if you took the orchestra away. I can't find any solo versions on YouTube, but there are a shitload of transcriptions for it on imslp! As a whole, the concertos for orchestra is sh*t, but for the piano, you have to admit the writing is just so *** beautiful man.

What I dislike about schumanns concerto is that the most integral part of the concerto(THE PIANO) is really dull and boring. Whereas in chopin, the orchestra is boring but the piano solo parts are extremely well written.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #102 on: October 04, 2014, 09:33:58 PM »
but if you post about things you are completely uninformed about, said posts may be funny in a manner you don't intend.

I have studied, listened to and played more piano concertos than you have got brain cells (which might not be that difficult), so I would take care when using the word uninformed.

Thal
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #103 on: October 04, 2014, 10:07:49 PM »
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The concerto is not Schumann's greatest piece
One must be grateful for this.

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he subconsciously rebelled against anything even slightly resonating with showiness or empty display
Perhaps that is why his concerto is boring.

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he negates empty note spinning or egoistic soloistic self-aggrandizing

Another reason why his concerto is boring.

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. One who might revel in the vacuous prestidigitation of mid 19th century keyboard warriors is clearly aesthetically ill-equipped to comprehend the pure musical riches of Herr Robert

Snobby elevated horsecrap

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Schumann, it seems, is to be criticized from every point of view; from those who enjoy the banal note spinners,

If the twat had not crippled his pianistic mechanism, he might have been a tadge more exciting.

Thal

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Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #104 on: October 04, 2014, 10:09:38 PM »
I think we should all just get along. Musicians need to admire, respect, and support each other! It's a nasty, difficult world out there and it's better to have friends than to have enemies.

Thalbergmad is neither the first nor the last accomplished musician to dislike Schumann.

Like any human being, Schumann's output was not "perfectly even". Some of his works resonate deeper with my spirit than others, but I can't say any are vile or devoid entirely of value. I don't particularly care for the ABEGG or the Symphonic Etudes, but I do love his Piano Quartet and Piano Quintet! Who cannot shed a tear in the former when the cello sings so beautifully the theme of the Andante Cantabile?

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #105 on: October 04, 2014, 10:21:50 PM »
Thalbergmad is neither the first nor the last accomplished musician to dislike Schumann.

I do not consider myself to be anything like accomplished, but I do consider myself to be open minded enough not just to accept that something is good music just because loads of pianists play  it or because some knobend with a beard in some conservatory told me so 30 years ago.

Thal
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Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #106 on: October 04, 2014, 10:27:42 PM »
Well, have you composed anything that smells remotely better than even the smelliest, messiest dump that Schumann ever took?

 :)

Offline superstition2

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #107 on: October 04, 2014, 10:50:05 PM »
Well, have you composed anything that smells remotely better than even the smelliest, messiest dump that Schumann ever took?

 :)
That's not really the standard. The standard is comparing this concerto with all of the neglected piano concertos out there. If there are better concertos that are hardly ever played, then the Schumann concerto deserves to be targeted.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #108 on: October 04, 2014, 10:58:34 PM »
Last time I checked, "the standard" was that popular pianists get paid well to perform popular works.
Sadly, this means that the same 15-20 concertos get played again and again and again and again.

You can't really blame Schumann for the fact that many people love his music ;)

Offline superstition2

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #109 on: October 04, 2014, 11:01:13 PM »
Last time I checked, "the standard" was that popular pianists get paid well to perform popular works.
Sadly, this means that the same 15-20 concertos get played again and again and again and again.

You can't really blame Schumann for the fact that many people love his music ;)

You cite laymen's standards (money and public popularity), not musicians' standards.

McDonald's food and soda are popular but they aren't French gourmet or fine wine. There is a place, of course, for low-grade food products. Suicidal people, for instance, should feel free to consume copious quantities of carbonated dyed sugar syrup or diabetes-inducing high potency sweetener in dyed carbonated water whilst choking down feed lot "beef" products.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #110 on: October 04, 2014, 11:33:03 PM »
You cite laymen's standards (money and public popularity), not musicians' standards.


Since when is it a crime to admit that for professionals, music is a business?
It's pretty difficult to have a professional career without the support of the public.
Sadly, the public supports what they want to support!

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #111 on: October 04, 2014, 11:37:54 PM »
Sadly, the public supports what they want to support!

I suspect it's a bit more circular than that, and many support what they have been conditioned to support (through repeated exposure). I think the existence of "canonical repertoire" is deeply regrettable.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #112 on: October 04, 2014, 11:42:43 PM »
I think the existence of "canonical repertoire" is deeply regrettable.

I agree, but.... much (not all)of what's canonized IS truly outstanding, just as much of what's not canonized (again, not all) is NOT!

Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #113 on: October 04, 2014, 11:46:40 PM »
I agree, but.... much (not all)of what's canonized IS truly outstanding, just as much of what's not canonized (again, not all) is NOT!

Yes, agreed. Just to make it more awkward ,what is canonical is not set in stone, but changes very slowly over time! (Consider the status of Liszt now compared to say 80 years ago).

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #114 on: October 05, 2014, 05:10:49 AM »
The Schumann concerto is good music. It isn't very pianistic. That is, the effect is minimal for the effort. The same is true with his other concerted works. Depends on one's perspective. There are composers who composed much more 'effective' piano concertos. I quite like the Henselt, I don't think that has been mentioned a lot around here recently. Beethoven and Mozart concertos are not all that splashy either. Hummel is much more pianistic. I really enjoy Clementi's stuff, although I can't really recall a concerto of his that grabbed me.

I do understand Thalbergmad's perspective a little better. I do believe he is grossly close minded and gratuitously insulting to Schumann, which is sad. I wonder if he has heard Horowitz playing Schumann, especially the late recordings? These are revelatory. However even he (probably the greatest Schumann interpreter of all time) never recorded the concerto (as far as I am aware). He loved the 1st movement, but for him the finale was too 'etude-like'.

On a slightly different note, for someone who admires Vladigerov, there are many balkan composers, genuinely neglected, who have made me sit up and take notice relatively recently, like Tajcevic, Hristic, Dragoi, even Kalomiris. Enescu is a giant. So evidently is Dmitri Cuclin. Not all of these composed much for piano though.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #115 on: October 05, 2014, 04:04:04 PM »
I think we should all just get along. Musicians need to admire, respect, and support each other! It's a  but I do love his Piano Quartet and Piano Quintet! Who cannot shed a tear in the former when the cello sings so beautifully the theme of the Andante Cantabile?

Actually this is one of the few bits of Schumann I quite dislike :)

It is pure schmaltz...not typical Schumann at all.

Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #116 on: October 05, 2014, 04:35:38 PM »
I confess... I enjoy a bit of well-crafted schmaltz from time to time!  ;)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #117 on: October 05, 2014, 08:09:48 PM »
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The Schumann concerto is good music.

In your opinion

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It isn't very pianistic
.

It isn't very interesting either.

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There are composers who composed much more 'effective' piano concertos.

Hundreds, even if we limit ourselves to the Romantics.

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I quite like the Henselt

Well, at least you have some taste.

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I don't think that has been mentioned a lot around here recently

That depends on how much you are prepared to read before machine gunning the place with posts.

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Beethoven and Mozart concertos are not all that splashy either

Depends what you mean by splashy.

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I really enjoy Clementi's stuff, although I can't really recall a concerto of his that grabbed me

Well, we cannot really use him to compare with Schumann.

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I do understand Thalbergmad's perspective a little better.

I doubt it.

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I do believe he is grossly close minded and gratuitously insulting to Schumann, which is sad
.

I base my judgement on a wide variety of works for piano and orchestra that I have played, studied and listened to. I am happily insulting to Schumann.

 
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I wonder if he has heard Horowitz playing Schumann, especially the late recordings?

Sadly yes, and they are horrid. Not even Horowitz could polish a turd.


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However even he (probably the greatest Schumann interpreter of all time) never recorded the concerto (as far as I am aware).

There is nothing in it for him.

Thal
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Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #118 on: October 06, 2014, 11:16:09 AM »
In your opinion
.

It isn't very interesting either.

Hundreds, even if we limit ourselves to the Romantics.
in your opinion

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Well, at least you have some taste.
quite a lot, actually :) The Henselt is a fine piece. Henselt is certainly neglected. As is Dreyschock. However Henselt is the more interesting. Dreyschock is less empty than one would expect, considering what was said about him by contemporaries.

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That depends on how much you are prepared to read before machine gunning the place with posts.
You machine gunned the place with anti-Schumann bile first.

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Depends what you mean by splashy.
I know both were pianists and they played there own music in public, and liked to make an effect via the display of their own virtuosity. However the musical virtues are always predominant. Never is there any sense of empty virtuosity.

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Well, we cannot really use him to compare with Schumann.

I doubt it.
.

I base my judgement on a wide variety of works for piano and orchestra that I have played, studied and listened to. I am happily insulting to Schumann.
(sic)
I have studied an awful lot of piano music too. All (well nearly) of Beethoven, Chopin, Brahms, Bach, Mozart, Schumann, most of Faure, Rachmaninov, Debussy, Haydn, Scarlatti, Ravel, Scriabin, a good deal of Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Franck, Clementi, Bartok, Rameau, Handel, d'Indy and Mendelssohn. So?
This represents more than 20,000 hours at the keyboard. I've also worked on the major art songs of Schumann, Schubert, Mussorgsky, Faure, Brahms and Rachmaninov. In my view, Schumann is the 3rd or 4th greatest composer for piano. And probably 5th or 6th greatest composer of all time across genres. The Kreisleriana, the Fantasy, the Davidsbundler dances, the Symphonic Etudes, and the Kinderszenen are amongst the most glorious, beautiful, rich, and spiritual works for any solo instrument.

 
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Sadly yes, and they are horrid. Not even Horowitz could polish a turd.
Rubbish. So you think that Horowitz' late recordings are horrid? That's idiotic. Anyone who is open minded ought to allow the late Horowitz Schumann recordings to wash over them. This is music making of a rare kind, one supreme genius totally understanding another. Horowitz here deifies Schumann, who in turn deifies Horowitz. Here we have the soul of the true tondichter being revealed in all its crystalline glory. Those who fail to experience this pure beauty are only robbing themselves, which is pitiable. This is as far from vapid scalar or arpeggio roulades as can possibly be imagined, this is pure music making in which not a note or gesture is misplaced. Horowitz reveals most fully what Hutcheson says about the Kreisleriana: "To appreciate it a high level of aesthetic intelligence is required...This is no facile music; there is severity alike in its beauty and its passion". Also, in relation to the Fantasy in C, that "no words can describe the Phantasie, no quotations set for the majesty of its genius..One must here it often from eminent pianists to get an adequate idea of its grandeur"

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There is nothing in it for him.

Thal
Horowitz, who adored Schumann, must have known less than you? Or perhaps he knew the artistic worth of the music better than most, being possibly the greatest pianist of all time.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #119 on: October 06, 2014, 11:19:43 AM »
To give an example of empty virtuosity. Running up the keyboard with scales, arpeggios and the like, for no particular reason. Fast runs with no particular melodic content. Play the theme, maybe with the thumbs, then run around it with arpeggios, and then play a little bit more theme. No wonder performers created a canon in which this kind of thing was excluded. The artists decided the canon, not the public; the public were always keener on the fluff, and used to require bits of fluff in between movements of serious works; a whole Beethoven sonata was considered far too heavy going in the 1850s.

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #120 on: October 06, 2014, 11:39:55 AM »
Rubbish. So you think that Horowitz' late recordings are horrid? That's idiotic.

No, I think Schumann is horrid. Not ever Horowitz could extract beauty from Schumann because it does not exist in the first place.

Thal
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Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #121 on: October 06, 2014, 04:08:37 PM »
It is uninteresting what you think of Schumann, especially repeated ad nauseam ad infinitum (unless by some miracle you can provide some sort of coherent critique of him). Maybe you just enjoy trolling.


This is an interesting discussion of Schumann:
http://www.talkclassical.com/34398-appreciating-robert-schumann-2.html

Here also is an interesting article on Schumann's legacy (by Charles Rosen, partially behind a paywall): http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/dec/23/happy-birthday-robert-schumann/

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #122 on: October 06, 2014, 05:45:09 PM »
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It is uninteresting what you think of Schumann

Why do you keep replying to my posts then??

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Maybe you just enjoy trolling.

I enjoy winding up imbeciles and snobs even more.

Quote
This is an interesting discussion of Schumann:
http://www.talkclassical.com/34398-appreciating-robert-schumann-2.html

There is no such thing as an interesting discussion of Schumann.

Quote
Here also is an interesting article on Schumann's legacy

Here is an even more interesting pile of horsecrap
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/6338129-a-pile-of-fresh-horse-manure-on-green-grass.jpg

Why do you keep posting links??

Thal
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Offline visitor

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #123 on: October 06, 2014, 06:15:53 PM »
^ lolz

as for links, i welcome them, so long as they are of this kind
 :)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #124 on: October 06, 2014, 07:48:01 PM »
I expect Schumann would have been useless at golf as well. Like Nick Faldo at his boring best, he would hit 18 pars without trying for a birdie.

Thal
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Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #125 on: October 06, 2014, 08:08:59 PM »
I expect Schumann would have been useless at golf as well. Like Nick Faldo at his boring best, he would hit 18 pars without trying for a birdie.

Thal

18 pars would make Schumann a scratch golfer! Hardly useless, even when compared to the top international stars of the game!  ;)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #126 on: October 06, 2014, 08:12:20 PM »
Pars don't win majors.

Thal
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Offline awesom_o

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #127 on: October 06, 2014, 09:36:56 PM »
I'm not saying that Schumann was a major winner.... I'm just saying.... he wasn't a major loser
;)

Offline mjames

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #128 on: October 07, 2014, 01:19:34 AM »

I have studied an awful lot of piano music too. All (well nearly) of Beethoven, Chopin, Brahms, Bach, Mozart, Schumann, most of Faure, Rachmaninov, Debussy, Haydn, Scarlatti, Ravel, Scriabin, a good deal of Liszt, Tchaikovsky, Franck, Clementi, Bartok, Rameau, Handel, d'Indy and Mendelssohn. So?
This represents more than 20,000 hours at the keyboard. I've also worked on the major art songs of Schumann, Schubert, Mussorgsky, Faure, Brahms and Rachmaninov. In my view, Schumann is the 3rd or 4th greatest composer for piano. And probably 5th or 6th greatest composer of all time across genres. The Kreisleriana, the Fantasy, the Davidsbundler dances, the Symphonic Etudes, and the Kinderszenen are amongst the most glorious, beautiful, rich, and spiritual works for any solo instrument.

 Rubbish. So you think that Horowitz' late recordings are horrid? That's idiotic. Anyone who is open minded ought to allow the late Horowitz

No Medtner? :(

Or Liadov..? :( :'( >:(  :-[

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #129 on: October 07, 2014, 02:54:17 AM »
Why do you keep replying to my posts then??
pot, kettle

Quote
Why do you keep posting links??

Thal

Why do you bother posting at all, since your posts are worthless? Your opinions are garbage, your ability to articulate a coherent argument nonexistent. Just opinionated douchebaggery. Stick to what you know, which is obviously very little.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #130 on: October 07, 2014, 02:57:03 AM »
No Medtner? :(

Or Liadov..? :( :'( >:(  :-[

Medtner has never really grabbed me, he seems neither Germanic nor Russian. But I don't dismiss his works as lacking in value. Liadov's most interesting works to me are orchestral. Unlike some though, I am open to new experiences.

I should have added Grieg to the above list..

Offline mjames

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #131 on: October 07, 2014, 03:12:17 AM »
Medtner has never really grabbed me, he seems neither Germanic nor Russian. But I don't dismiss his works as lacking in value. Liadov's most interesting works to me are orchestral. Unlike some though, I am open to new experiences.

I should have added Grieg to the above list..

OMFG OMFG YOU SHOULD TOTALLY GET INTO MEDTNER CMON MAN OMFGGGGGGGGG

Medtner..is..Medtner..is....MAGIC



Oh and since youre like a professional, you can probably sightread Liadov...i mean nothing too difficult but *** HES SO LOVELY

Offline j_menz

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #132 on: October 07, 2014, 03:24:55 AM »
I should have added Grieg to the above list..

Oh come now, surely more than just Edvard. With the possible exception of D'Indy, your list borders on the truly prosaic and (even with him) quaintly old fashioned.
"What the world needs is more geniuses with humility. There are so few of us left" -- Oscar Levant

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #133 on: October 07, 2014, 07:07:36 AM »
Why do you bother posting at all, since your posts are worthless?

Because it winds up big headed retards.

Thal
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Offline dima_ogorodnikov

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #134 on: October 07, 2014, 07:20:26 AM »
-
No amount of how-to information is going to work if you have the wrong mindset, the wrong guiding philosophies. Avoid losers like the plague, and gather with and learn from winners only.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #135 on: October 07, 2014, 11:25:04 AM »
It's perhaps a pity that this thread - if it has to exist at all in the first place - doesn't concentrate more on the Schumann Piano Concerto and what members here think are its virtues, vices and all things in between. It's also a pity that Thal - whose knowledge of 19th century works for piano and orchestra leaves most members here not far in front of the starting post (in case anyone thinks otherwise) - never loses an opportunity to make disparaging remarks about Schumann in general that might suggest to some readers that he believes that all Schumann works are as poor as that concerto. This is indiscriminacy and implied indiscriminacy of the worst order. Thal's welcome, of course, to dislike as much of Schumann as he likes, just as the rest of are to agree or disagree with him, but I'd prefer that he adopt a more pragmatic attitude and calmly go into a reasonable amount of detail as to precisely what he finds so unsatisfying in Schumann's music in general and the piano concerto in particular and how other composers of his day did similar things so much better.

I happen to think that Schumann's piano concerto is one of his least interesting works whose first movement is sufficiently threadbare - in terms of ideas, orchestration and piano writing - to convey the impression of its having outstayed its welcome before its halfway point and whose finale conveys the same impression, only more strongly and by the end of its first couple of pages; Schumann could and did write far better music than this, not least for the piano - and I think it not unreasonable to consider the opinions of the plethora of major composers and distinguished performers (including those mentioned upthread) who have spoken and continue to speak favourably of his best music before assuming that as controversial an opinion as that which Thal presents here with reliable regularity is anything more than a personal viewpoint as distinct from an overall value judgement. Schumann's symphonies are all rather sadly flawed, too, for all their flashes of inspiration and, as technical symphonic accomplishments, none of them features high on a list of such works in his century (again, think Beethoven before him and Bruckner, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Mahler and many others after him). The chamber works are, on the whole, on a higher level altogether and, among the vast swathes of piano music, two works in particular stand out as inviolable masterpieces - the Fantaisie and the Études Symphoniques and to hear them in Pollini's hands, for example, is to experience music making of the highest order from both composer and performer.

OK, now I've digressed myself - so, back to why so many people regard the Schumann piano concerto as inferior; put simply, it sits there uncomfortably among some pretty strong competition, from Beethoven's before it to Chopin's two, Alkan's two concerti da camera, Liszt's two (especially the second) in and around its own time and Brahms's and Tchaikovsky's two after it (and these are only the best known - Thal could probably cite hundreds of others) - and it's so clumsy and workmanlike - I nearly typed Kapellmeisterisch - that it's just not good Schumann!

Best,

Alistair
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Offline visitor

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #136 on: October 08, 2014, 02:16:14 PM »
i guess we can stop saying the composer sucks and just post hundreds of examples that are vastly superior  :P


one down....______ to go? ;)

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #137 on: October 08, 2014, 08:02:56 PM »
Now that is a proper romantic concerto, It pisses all over the banal Schumann.

Thal
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Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #138 on: October 22, 2014, 02:04:33 PM »
OMFG OMFG YOU SHOULD TOTALLY GET INTO MEDTNER CMON MAN OMFGGGGGGGGG

Medtner..is..Medtner..is....MAGIC


Oh and since youre like a professional, you can probably sightread Liadov...i mean nothing too difficult but *** HES SO LOVELY


Medtner is admirable. I do find his square rhythms and occasional lack of really memorable ideas a little limiting. Nevertheless, I want to play more Medtner. I have played a little Liadov it is true, and I do admire his works. A genius in his way no doubt. Shame he appears to have been a little lazy :)

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #139 on: October 22, 2014, 02:09:47 PM »
Oh come now, surely more than just Edvard. With the possible exception of D'Indy, your list borders on the truly prosaic and (even with him) quaintly old fashioned.

The standard repertoire is extremely rich. As has been stated by the best, one could spend a lifetime on the Beethoven sonatas alone. I could happily play nothing but the 3 Bs, Schubert Schumann Chopin Faure Debussy Mozart and the major Russians (Rachmaninov, Scriabin Prokofiev) for the rest of my life. But I am interested in new horizons and love hearing new works. I just couldn't be bothered investing huge time in poor music. Also I am uninterested in pianistic goals that are contrary to purely musical ones. My own compositions are completely divested of pianistic frippery.

As a footnote I'm sure you're aware that great artists like Busoni, Richter and Horowitz pared down their repertoires more and more especially late in life, as their art become more and more a distilled essence. At the moment I am concentrating on the large works of Schumann, and the Beethoven and (late) Schubert sonatas.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #140 on: October 22, 2014, 02:10:55 PM »
i guess we can stop saying the composer sucks and just post hundreds of examples that are vastly superior  :P

one down....______ to go? ;)
Not bad. But hardly superior. Could easily be better known, but the themes are hardly memorable. Some rather conventional passagework. But more than acceptable.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #141 on: October 22, 2014, 02:12:19 PM »
Now that is a proper romantic concerto, It pisses all over the banal Schumann.

Thal

I piss over your malodorous, cranial black hole produced comments whenever I see them. Makes a mess on the screen though.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #142 on: October 22, 2014, 02:12:50 PM »
Besides, there are certain risks involved when one is a bit too much on the defending side:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Daverio

So you're another dodgy person then?

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #143 on: October 22, 2014, 02:15:54 PM »
It's perhaps a pity that this thread - if it has to exist at all in the first place - doesn't concentrate more on the Schumann Piano Concerto and what members here think are its virtues, vices and all things in between.

A fine comment with which I more often than not agree. I do feel that the Schumann symphonies are as good as any 19th century ones with the exception of Beethoven and Brahms' 4th, at least a highly cogent defense can be made for them. The old canard of poor orchestration seems thoroughly debunked. Musically they stack up well, indeed superbly. Schumann however is one composer that the unmusical parading as musical can never 'get', therefore he is an excellent touchstone in weeding out the pretenders.

Offline eusebius12

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #144 on: October 22, 2014, 02:32:45 PM »
The standard repertoire is extremely rich. As has been stated by the best, one could spend a lifetime on the Beethoven sonatas alone. I could happily play nothing but the 3 Bs, Schubert Schumann Chopin Faure Debussy Mozart and the major Russians (Rachmaninov, Scriabin Prokofiev) for the rest of my life. But I am interested in new horizons and love hearing new works (I could have added many baroque names like Froberger, Frescobaldi, Pescetti, Purcell..and others like Albeniz, Granados, Ravel, Franck, Weber, Khachaturian, Dvorak, etc. the list was becoming unwieldy). I just couldn't be bothered investing huge amounts of time in poor music. Also I am uninterested in pianistic goals that are contrary to purely musical ones. My own compositions are completely divested of pianistic frippery.


As a footnote I'm sure you're aware that great artists like Busoni, Richter and Horowitz pared down their repertoires more and more especially late in life, as their art become more and more a distilled essence. At the moment I am concentrating on the large works of Schumann, and the Beethoven and (late) Schubert sonatas.

[note for some reason this wasn't modified but reposted]

Offline mjames

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #145 on: October 22, 2014, 02:37:19 PM »
schubert is awesome


Oh and Eusebio(IUSSSSSSS)

Just let it go.

Offline anaimadureira

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #146 on: June 30, 2015, 09:35:48 AM »
How can someone depreciate such a work! Schumann's piano concerto has such a depth and daintiness...! I don't agree about its repetitive character. I would call it exploration of ideas, something every great composers utilize very often, as you know.
Last summer, I watched Murray Perahia with Bernard Haitink and the Chamber Orchestra of Europe, in Luzern, and it was all simply divine, particularly the cadenza - I was completely in trance.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #147 on: June 30, 2015, 12:07:17 PM »
No, I think Schumann is horrid. Not ever Horowitz could extract beauty from Schumann because it does not exist in the first place.
I've asked you before, just out of curiosity (but I don't ever recall you having answered) - do you absolutely hate every note that Schumann composed and do you believe that all his works are equally "horrid", or do you find some at least acceptable but far more unbearable?

Of those works that I find the most of value in, the Études Symphoniques and Piano Quintet score highly whereas the piano concerto even irritates me when the wonderful Martha plays it as she all too often does...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #148 on: June 30, 2015, 05:42:57 PM »
I've asked you before, just out of curiosity (but I don't ever recall you having answered) - do you absolutely hate every note that Schumann composed and do you believe that all his works are equally "horrid", or do you find some at least acceptable but far more unbearable?

I have answered this before and do not intend to waste any more keystrokes on the subject.

All that happens is I end up polluting my ears with even more of his military like freedom of expression, when i could be listening to a composer I really do like.

Bollox

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline visitor

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Re: Why do so many think the Schumann concerto sucks?
«Reply #149 on: June 30, 2015, 07:36:34 PM »
don't mind me, just infusing the thread w/ a truly enjoyable romantic concerto.

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