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Topic: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky  (Read 8201 times)

Offline bluesyboy1

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Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
on: March 24, 2010, 09:47:31 AM
Ok now, I now that there in no "versus" as far as comparing these majestic composers. I was wondering however about the age-old question. I would like to ask the learned, perhaps preferably those who have played the concertos the following questions. Is Rachmaninov's 3rd piano more difficult pianistically than Tchaikovsky's first? Which has a more difficult keyboard work?
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Offline birba

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #1 on: March 24, 2010, 10:43:47 AM
WAY more difficult.  If you've got octaves, anyone can play the Tchaikowsky.  Even me.

Offline cmg

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Current repertoire:  "Come to Jesus" (in whole-notes)

Offline eminemvsrach

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #3 on: March 24, 2010, 04:33:11 PM
I'm currently studying Tchaikovsky and I must say it is WAY easier than Rach 3, I wouldn't even dare touch Rach 3......
"Music is Enough for a Lifetime, but a Lifetime is never enough for music."

                              ---Sergei Rachmaninoff

Offline point of grace

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #4 on: March 24, 2010, 05:25:23 PM
i think in Tchaik is more difficult to get a good sound, it's finer, and clearer. Rachmaninoff is more noisy.
Learning:

Chopin Polonaise Op. 53
Brahms Op. 79 No. 2
Rachmaninoff Op. 16 No. 4 and 5

Offline simonjp90

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #5 on: March 24, 2010, 05:43:03 PM
WAY more difficult.  If you've got octaves, anyone can play the Tchaikowsky.  Even me.

aye i agree.

Offline point of grace

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 05:47:08 PM
Чайковский
hey that's cool! you got a russian keyboard or you just copypasted? ;D
Learning:

Chopin Polonaise Op. 53
Brahms Op. 79 No. 2
Rachmaninoff Op. 16 No. 4 and 5

Offline simonjp90

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 02:30:56 AM
hey that's cool! you got a russian keyboard or you just copypasted? ;D

na just copy & pasted

Offline slow_concert_pianist

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #8 on: March 25, 2010, 05:47:51 AM
Tchaikovsky's 1st is a stroll in the park compared to his 2nd concerto. I would say that both Tchai2 and Rach3 offer challenges that will torment the greatest performer.

There are numerous other hellish (hard) concertos. Balakirev2, Dvorak, Massenet to name a few.
Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

Offline teccomin

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #9 on: May 09, 2010, 03:27:09 PM
Rach 3 requires more stamina though.

Offline birba

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #10 on: May 10, 2010, 05:43:54 AM
The first concerto is more playable than the second, because it was Siloti, I think, who edited it and made it more pianistic.   I read somewhere that those famous opening chords aren't even in the first edition.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #11 on: May 10, 2010, 06:08:21 AM
The first concerto is more playable than the second, because it was Siloti, I think, who edited it and made it more pianistic.   I read somewhere that those famous opening chords aren't even in the first edition.

Actually, Nikolai Rubinstein edited the first concerto. The opening chords are just one passage he edited. He edited a lot of the first movement from beginning to end. I have an edition that shows them one on top of the other, and it is quite a sight. Alexander Siloti actually edited the second Tchaikovsky concerto, or, rather, he mutilated it. That is one edition that just didn't work well.

Offline pianowolfi

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #12 on: May 10, 2010, 09:27:22 AM
i think in Tchaik is more difficult to get a good sound, it's finer, and clearer. Rachmaninoff is more noisy.

Ouch ouch. Even if Rach 3 was 10 times as difficult I would always prefer it over Tchaik....but okay, my taste.

Offline birba

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #13 on: May 10, 2010, 09:31:57 AM
What edition is that?  Have to get it.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #14 on: May 10, 2010, 05:50:50 PM
What edition is that?  Have to get it.

I actually downloaded it off the internet many years ago, but I don't remember where I got it. I know that someone even recorded the original edition. It was most likely Jerome Lowenthal, but I cannot be absolutely sure.

Offline mistermoe

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #15 on: May 10, 2010, 10:00:41 PM
I actually downloaded it off the internet many years ago, but I don't remember where I got it. I know that someone even recorded the original edition. It was most likely Jerome Lowenthal, but I cannot be absolutely sure.

So i guess u have the pdf version?! Could you post it here on the forum? Is that somehow possible? I would be really (really!) interested in seeing the original version!

edit: by the way, i'm pretty sure that siloti edited the first concerto and that it's this version everyone plays nowadays. Never heard of Rubinstein editing it.

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #16 on: May 10, 2010, 10:16:50 PM
So i guess u have the pdf version?! Could you post it here on the forum? Is that somehow possible? I would be really (really!) interested in seeing the original version!

edit: by the way, i'm pretty sure that siloti edited the first concerto and that it's this version everyone plays nowadays. Never heard of Rubinstein editing it.

Actually, yeah, you are right that Siloti edited this concerto also. I thought that Nikolai Rubinstein edited it because he had so many problems with it, many of which were voiced to Tchaikovsky. See here.

I will look around my hard drives for the pdf. I am not sure I even have it anymore.

Offline slow_concert_pianist

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #17 on: May 11, 2010, 03:11:38 AM
Actually, yeah, you are right that Siloti edited this concerto also. I thought that Nikolai Rubinstein edited it because he had so many problems with it, many of which were voiced to Tchaikovsky. See here.

I will look around my hard drives for the pdf. I am not sure I even have it anymore.

I do like Rubinstein's compositions as a general rule, but he does have the reputation for being rather old fashioned and inclined to use procrastination against the pioneer.
Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

Offline retrouvailles

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #18 on: May 11, 2010, 04:23:10 AM
I do like Rubinstein's compositions as a general rule, but he does have the reputation for being rather old fashioned and inclined to use procrastination against the pioneer.

You are confusing Nikolai Rubinstein with Anton Rubinstein, his brother. Nikolai was not known as being a composer, but solely a pianist.

Offline slow_concert_pianist

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #19 on: May 12, 2010, 06:23:35 AM
You are confusing Nikolai Rubinstein with Anton Rubinstein, his brother. Nikolai was not known as being a composer, but solely a pianist.

Actually I wasn't but I did mean Anton. I did not read your detail carefully enough, please forgive me!

On a side note, though he did not compose as much as his brother, Nikolai was regarded as a competent composer of his time. I have never been able to access any of his scores, so I cannot comment from 1st hand experience.
Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #20 on: May 12, 2010, 03:45:33 PM
Actually I wasn't but I did mean Anton. I did not read your detail carefully enough, please forgive me!

On a side note, though he did not compose as much as his brother, Nikolai was regarded as a competent composer of his time. I have never been able to access any of his scores, so I cannot comment from 1st hand experience.
I wonder if anyone in this forum takes your comments even a little bit seriously.
You've kind of ruined it for yourself with your recordings.

Offline slow_concert_pianist

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #21 on: May 13, 2010, 03:24:33 AM
I wonder if anyone in this forum takes your comments even a little bit seriously.
You've kind of ruined it for yourself with your recordings.

I make recordings of the lowest quality and the hightest honesty. They have not been offered to exagerate any accolade I might consider myself worthy of. Instead, I have shown the road to progress and will continue to do so. But in line with my PM to you I ban you from listening to my recordings now or in the future, so I expect no more comments.

Why don't you demonstrate your wisdom (sic) ::) instead of issuing slurs. Ah I see why, I feel sure you feel your true "character" will be exposed for all to see and avoid - windbags are only capable of bluster...maybe you should join the ex President "little" George Bush fanclub. You's fit in well there I'm sure.
Currently rehearsing:

Chopin Ballades (all)
Rachmaninov prelude in Bb Op 23 No 2
Mozart A minor sonata K310
Prokofiev 2nd sonata
Bach WTCII no 6
Busoni tr Bach toccata in D minor

Offline pianisten1989

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Re: Piano concertos: Rachmaninov Vs. Tchaikovsky
Reply #22 on: May 13, 2010, 06:38:38 AM
And I have to work even harder to get your acceptance? Oh dammit =/
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