How much sacrifice is too much?

[m1469]

Hypothetical situation:  Pianist's career did not end up going as planned and Pianist seems to be a little bitter at the world.  

Pianist says he/she loves the piano more than anyone can imagine, and advises that it is all about what one is willing to sacrifice.  S/he has already accomplished some extraordinary things.

Pianist seems to have sacrificed just about everything.  For what?

How much is too much?

m1469

[Motrax]

Hah, I feel much the same way, though I'm afraid all of what you've described is in the future, rather than the past.

Rationally, I'm nowhere near good enough to become professional, unless I drop EVERYTHING for piano. And if I do that, I'll still only be mediocre at best. So I'll go get my physics/math degrees and become an academic, and that'll be that.

"Too much" sacrifice is hard to define, especially with piano. More often than not, you don't even realize the sacrifices you make until it is much too late to turn back. One can turn into a hermetic pianist and not even realize it for quite some time - and by then turning back would only mean that the past year (or two or three) has basically gone down the drain.

[janice]

Hah, I feel much the same way, though I'm afraid all of what you've described is in the future, rather than the past.

Rationally, I'm nowhere near good enough to become professional, unless I drop EVERYTHING for piano. And if I do that, I'll still only be mediocre at best. So I'll go get my physics/math degrees and become an academic, and that'll be that.

"Too much" sacrifice is hard to define, especially with piano. More often than not, you don't even realize the sacrifices you make until it is much too late to turn back. One can turn into a hermetic pianist and not even realize it for quite some time - and by then turning back would only mean that the past year (or two or three) has basically gone down the drain.

Motrax, you speak with a gread deal of wisdom, and for such a young age!  You have decided to save yourself the misery and seclusion that is necessary to obtain that goal--and some people might think that you are "putting yourself down" but I think you are a realist, and I applaud your discernment!:)

[jr11]

I have a "friend"/teacher who placed in the top 3 in Van Cliburn a number of years ago, let's call this person "Pianist".  Pianist has placed in numerous international competitions, had major tours and "hung out" with many of the greatest musicians in the world of that time.

It sounds like Pianist has had a career that many would be very envious of. While others can only dream, Pianist has done it... and found it's not all it's cracked up to be.

If Pianist is love sick, this is not really the forum for that sort of thing. If Pianist regrets ever taking up the piano, that is disturbing. However, Pianist is little different than many others that have chosen to dedicate their life to a calling as a first priority, rather than home life and family.

I guess it's lonely at the top.

[HemanHands]

I suppose it all depends on what one determines as sacrifice.  Many people think of that word as though there is some sort of exchange taking place, when one "sacrifices".  That's not entirely unreasonable.

But when one tries to read the future, decide what is best based on what may come, it gets complicated.  There is really no way to know what will be happening in the future.

It is not really like one must exchange piano, performance, practice, skill, for friendship and love.  Perhaps if one so chooses, they become distant and antisocial.  But how does one know that seclusion will truly lead to the best artistry?  How did Pianist know that the sacrifices he/she made, would lead him/her to where he/she is now?  There's no way.

It all comes down to each moment, in practice, competition, performance, career, for the sake of each moment.  And what we live each moment in our pianistic endeavors, are only truly genuine when we live them in our lives completely.  In this respect, what sacrifice is being made?  

I think that some people have extraordinary gifts that in ways, they feel obligated to develop.  Who obligates one?  This is a decision that only the individual can answer.

Everybody will have regrets, questions, and 20-20 vision looking hindsight.  

[bernhard]

Pianist seems to have thought that his/her piano studies would be a sure gate to something else. When it was not, s/he became resentful. I do not think this resentment would take place if s/he had put piano playing itself as the ultimate goal. Then how can one be disappointed?

Motrax|:

I  find your position intriguing. You seem to think that is ok to be mediocre in Physics/maths. Yet, if you apply the same reasoning you applied to the piano to physics/maths you will realise that just like in the field of piano playing there is a handful of outstanding individuals, so it is in the field of science. If you set out to compare yourself to Einstein, or Godel, or Fischer, you will also despair of pursuing a career in physics/maths. And yet you do not. So why not apply the same reasoning to music? If you can be happy to be a mediocre academic in science, why are you not happy to be a mediocre academic in music? Trust me, to be a mediocre academic in science will demand far more sacrifice (and pay less) than to be a mediocre academic in music. Have you ever heard of “publish or perish”? Did you know that physics researchers spend most of their time filling up forms to get grants and publishing rubbish to justify the grant renewal than actually doing useful research? The sacrifice is far greater in science than in music, and the personal rewards far less. I strongly suggest that you spend a term as trainee in a physics/maths lab/department and carefully observe what goes on there. I also doubt very much you will have time to dedicate to the piano once you embark on a scientific career. Janice seems to think you are being realist. I dare say that your idea of what a maths/physics career entails is far from it. I say this in the friendliest possible way.

m1469:

Why regard the situation as “sacrifice” (bearing in mind that the original meaning of the word is actually “sacred work”)? Something is a sacrifice only if it is stopping you from doing something else you want to do. So, the career woman may regard children and marriage as a sacrifice, while the housewife may regard having to work instead of staying home with the children as sacrifice. Where is the sacrifice if you are doing what you want to do?

Which brings me full circle to the beginning. Maybe pianist feels “cheated” because his/her music was just an activity s/he did for the sake of something else, and when the something else failed to materialise, s/he became bitter and disappointed. So pay attention Motrax: If you are going to do physics/maths, make sure you do it for the correct reasons: for physics/maths itself, since if you are going to do it for the sake of something else, there is no guarantee you will get it, in which case you will be doing a huge sacrifice, and for what?

Finally, if you are doing what you want to do no sacrifice is big enough. In fact there is no sacrifice at all.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[HauntingHarmony]

Yes, but how does one know what is right?

Bernhard, you talk about doing what you want to be doing, but what if that changes or what if one day you wake up and realize you have not been living authentically?  This is something that is deeply perplexing for me.  I often can't sleep because of it, as  a matter of fact.  I am so afraid of regret.  I am so afraid of doing the "wrong" thing.

How does one not have a higher goal in mind, while studying in the moment?  Isn't it right to be disappointed should something not materialize after much labour and sacrifice?

[benji]

If Pianist truly loves what s/he is doing, then s/he has made no large sacrifices.

I often can't sleep because of it, as  a matter of fact.  I am so afraid of regret.  I am so afraid of doing the "wrong" thing.

Worrying about regret? It sounds to me like you haven't been "living authentically" if you're wasting your time worrying about something so abstract as future regrets.

[mark1]

No offense haunting,  but you need to get out more! I mean that in the nicest of ways!   Far too many people worry about what if...should I... gets ya' nowhere!!! Do what makes you happy, not what you" think" will make you happy!  ...and don't ever compare yourself to anyone else...you can't be them, you can only be you!

[Shagdac]

This is only my personal feeling, however I don't believe that regret comes from trying and not achieving, but from not trying at all. There are no guarantees in life no matter what one pursues. Of course as humans it is only natural to be disappointed when things don't go exactly the way we want. But it sounds as if your friend has already succumbed to feelings inadequacy. In reality, your friend has acheived far more already than what others ever will in piano. To place in the top 3, having won numberous international competitions and hanging out with other top pianist are not exactly what I would call small accomplishments.

Once's outlook determines the difference between sacrifice and opportunity. While pianist may feel like "I sacrificed everything for piano"....she/he could just as well say "I was fortunate enough to have the "opportunity" to devote so much to doing something I truly love."!

Life is too short to waste time doing something you don't like, and getting old and wondering "what if ?".
For me, there is no such thing as TOO much sacrifice, only not in trying in the first place.

Just my opinion.

Susan

[Motrax]

Bernhard:

I really didn't mean to give the impression that I've just randomly chosen math/physics because I think it's a stable career path or something. Ever since 5th grade, I've wanted to be a physicist. I didn't think anything would change that, until about March or April of this year, when I started really taking piano more seriously. I discovered I loved piano more than most other things, but that doesn't diminish my love for physics. I'm working at NIST (www.nist.gov), and I enjoy what I do. What will probably end up happening is that as I get into higher level classes, I'll have to pretty much drop piano altogether, and then I'll just devote my time to science. Which doesn't make me particularly happy, but utterly neglecting science by becoming a pianist wouldn't make me all too joyful either.

Just as a funny note of interest, my 2nd cousin wanted to be a physicist or a pianist, and she chose physics. A pianist I spoke to once, Orli Shaham, told me she would've become a physicist had piano not taken over. Horowitz (the famous one) was also an amateur physicist on the side. So it seems my choice isn't a new one.  

[JK]

Surely to get to any stage of reasonble musicianship in piano playing one has to make some sacrifice. Persoanlly I've got to the stage where I want more than anything to play the piano as my future career, this is in fact what I am going to do. I know this is a slightly stupid approach as I don't KNOW for sure that I will but I am willing to put as much effort and work as possible in order to be what I want to be, a musician. Not a famous one but a successfull and a good one!

I have a friend who is a violinist, they have the same feeling, they are only young but decided not to go to secondary school at all and to spend this time practicing etc. As with me this sort of determination doesn't come from pushy parents but from a love of playing the instrument and a desire to see how far we can go. Piano is kinda a part of me now and it seems normal to be obsessed by it all the time.

In this case i wouldn't call my current lifestyle a sacrifice but an ideal! However who knows what the future will bring...........!

[bernhard]

Yes, but how does one know what is right?

Bernhard, you talk about doing what you want to be doing, but what if that changes or what if one day you wake up and realize you have not been living authentically?  This is something that is deeply perplexing for me.  I often can't sleep because of it, as  a matter of fact.  I am so afraid of regret.  I am so afraid of doing the "wrong" thing.

How does one not have a higher goal in mind, while studying in the moment?  Isn't it right to be disappointed should something not materialize after much labour and sacrifice?

Of this you can be certain: Whatever you do it is going to be wrong. So relax and enjoy!

And if the situation changes (as it always will) you will change with it. No problem. As a child you had the dreams and desires of a child. As a teenager all this changed. What seemed so important then, has no importance now. As an adult things are different again. So, you can be pretty certain that in ten years time whatever you are doing now will seem absurd. So do not have elaborate and intricate plans. Just do what you want to do now, and worry about changes once they come. In my youth I used to be a scuba-diver. I could not envisage a future where I would not be diving forever. And yet I lost all interest in it. Do I regret all the time I spent doing it? Not at all. Because I did it for the sake of it. I had no ulterior motives. I just wanted to dive. So when I did not want to dive anymore, I simply stopped. There was no bitterness or resentment or any feeling of regret. Why should there have been?

At the same time we never have the full picture. A lot of novels/movies are based on this premise. As you watch the movie you have the full information that the characters do not have. You squirm in your seat as you watch the characters make blunder after blunder simply because they do not have the full picture and their actions are based on faulty judgement. Have you ever seen one of those movies? (I have just seen “Mystic river” which is a good example of this kind of plot)

We are pretty much in the same situation.

I have a theory that goes like this: At the moment of death we will be given the full picture. We will then be totally aware of all the incredible mistakes we did for sheer ignorance. We will see that whatever actions we did – even with the best of intentions – resulted in terrible consequences. We will know the ultimate consequences of every single action we did, and it will all be bad. This will be hell.

At the same time we will also realise that even if we had taken other decisions, travelled other paths, still it would be all wrong. So in the end it is all right. Whatever we did was as perfect as it could have been. This will be heaven.

So, don’t be afraid of doing the wrong thing: you have no choice. This is our human condition.

Instead, just do whatever you are doing to the best of your ability/potential. Do not think of lofty goals. Simply do the job at hand, be it washing the dishes, practising the piano, teaching a lesson, sharing a piece with an audience, taking care of the children. One thing at a time, and burn yourself into it. Do not hold back, and do not have elaborate plans. A lot of suffering comes from too much calculating.

How will you know what to do? Usually it is right in front of your nose. We just do not pay attention, so involved we are with our own secret plans and calculations.

Finally, I also believe very firmly that we always know (some times very deep down) what is the right/correct choice. We just do not want to do it. Really there is no indecision. We just procrastinate and say we cannot decide what to do. But the decision is always taken instantly. It just takes time to come to terms with it and finally do it.

Does this help?
I hope so.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Bernhard:

I really didn't mean to give the impression that I've just randomly chosen math/physics because I think it's a stable career path or something. Ever since 5th grade, I've wanted to be a physicist. I didn't think anything would change that, until about March or April of this year, when I started really taking piano more seriously. I discovered I loved piano more than most other things, but that doesn't diminish my love for physics. I'm working at NIST (www.nist.gov), and I enjoy what I do. What will probably end up happening is that as I get into higher level classes, I'll have to pretty much drop piano altogether, and then I'll just devote my time to science. Which doesn't make me particularly happy, but utterly neglecting science by becoming a pianist wouldn't make me all too joyful either.

Just as a funny note of interest, my 2nd cousin wanted to be a physicist or a pianist, and she chose physics. A pianist I spoke to once, Orli Shaham, told me she would've become a physicist had piano not taken over. Horowitz (the famous one) was also an amateur physicist on the side. So it seems my choice isn't a new one.  

That was not my impression at all. What intrigued me was this (correct me if I am wrong):

"I would like to play the piano, but I am not good enough. Therefore, I will do Physics/maths instead."

Now my point was simple: Are you a physics/maths prodigy? If not, why do you assume that you can get away with not being "good enough" in phisycs/maths, and not with the piano?

Or let me put another way altogether: What is stopping you from being good enough at the piano?

Please, understant that I do not care one way or another. I just think you should give this matter a bit more thought, since it seems to me that you may be using a faulty reasoning.

Also, it will be far easier to keep up with science as a pianist, than the other way around.

Finally, there is really no reason not to do both in conjunction. As I mentioned to you before, acoustics is physics

This reminds me of a physicist that was also a martial artist. He actually published a number of papers (one in Scientific American) on the "Physics of Karate", in which he showed how it was possible for a human fist to break through concrete. The black belt in the pictures, breaking bricks is the author himself.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ted]

There is also the fact of chance (or concealed order, but we shan't delve too deeply into philosophy here). Looking back I ask myself, "Why did I do such a silly thing when I was twenty ? How much better had I done such and such instead." But everything is so inextricably linked that to reason in terms of cause and effect forty years ago is futile. I think you have to be gentle with yourself and realise that a simple change of direction years ago might just as easily have led to unhappiness as contentment.

Bernhard talks about scuba diving. With me it was tennis - on the court all weekend - compete, compete, compete - then I married and pffffft ! The whole thing became irrelevant to my life's purpose. I still keep very fit, health is always important, but competitive sport now seems a totally pointless activity.

My music is somewhat different in that it has always been an invariant in my life - always constant, always productive of a very deep serenity and oneness which nothing else has ever approached. Had somebody taken me in hand as a youth I have no doubt I could easily have been an extremely capable professional musician or pianist of one sort or another. But then I probably wouldn't have been able to attain the delightfully cavalier, creative and thoroughly enjoyable position I now occupy at fifty-six.

No good worrying about "ought tos", "shoulds", "might have beens" or "what ifs".  Just enjoy your music and your life, help others to enjoy theirs and always keep an open mind.

[ahmedito]

I know a extremely good pianist who has the same history but a completely opposite focus. He won second prize at the Busoni competition and placed top 3 at the Rubinstein. He´s italian. He lives for the piano, hes over 40 and still practices 6 hours minimum a day.
He can play at will most of the standard repertoire and one time, I saw him play the Beethoven 5th with absolutely no preparation and having not played it in more than 10 years (filling in for a sick pianist). He teaches at an amateur school because of politics, and he isnt married and doesnt seem to have prospects at it. I asked him what he thinks about this thread, he said that his goal in life IS being a pianist and making music.... a wife and kids and all that kind of stuff would be the sacrifice, not the other way around.

[ahmedito]

Personally, I´m happily married, and I left med school for the piano, because I want to make music. Its what I enjoy most.

[m1469]

The whole thing is disturbing for me.

m1469

[trunks]

I have a "friend"/teacher who placed in the top 3 in Van Cliburn a number of years ago, let's call this person "Pianist".  Pianist has placed in numerous international competitions, had major tours and "hung out" with many of the greatest musicians in the world of that time.

Pianist's career did not go as planned, however, and Pianist is very angry and bitter at the world;very lonely.  

Pianist tells me that he/she loves the piano more than anyone can imagine, and within long conversations, advises me that it is all about what one is willing to sacrifice.

Pianist seems to have sacrificed just about everything.  For what?

How much is too much?

m1469

Talking about values. Every individual has his own set of values. It is inappropriate - and disrespectful - to think, let alone tell, that somebody has sacrificed too much (or too little, or just about right). Only the individual could tell that for himself.

[m1469]

I have been thinking about these ideas over the year and I am coming to realize that what one wishes to acheive in any particular field, is perhaps more about what one is NOT willing to sacrifice in one's life.  A matter of considering what it takes to acheive one's goals and settling within oneself to acheive them, and the reasons why.  Over this year, I have come to realize again, a musical "part of me" that I am simply not willing to sacrifice for any reason other than if I should ever sincerely grow out of it.  This may mean foregoing certain things at certain times, but, should I sacrifice being true to myself, that's all I would seemingly lose.

I am glimpsing that the principles one brings to any one aspect or field in one's life must be carried over into all other aspects of one's life in order to organize a channel for truly *satisfying* fruition.  Principled discipline must be/become a welcomed friend.  These responses on this thread have been important to me and I have thought about them throughout this time. 

Thanks,
m1469

[Aziel]

I regret nothing. 

Bernhard is quite correct, there is no sacrifice.

I make music and that will go with me to the grave, I assure you.

[whynot]

m1469, YES!  You are right.  I also think Bernhard hit it right on the head, about living one's life every moment and all the rest.  Ted was brilliant, as well.  I think we are missing a little information here on Pianist, because there's an implication that the bitterness is about having missed out on other aspects of life (marriage etc).  And that isn't the case, is it?  It's about something else.  I need to keep thinking about this.  In the meantime, what a lot of excellent (in my opinion) life philosophy is flying all over this board.       

[pianobabe_56]

For me, personally, I will have "sacrificed" too much if playing the piano loses its joy. Once it's lost it's joy, and the music suffers as a result, then I think you've messed up somewhere along the way.

[nuty]

I have the same problem. I`m 15 and it`s time for me to decide:
                     should I sacrifice everything for music
                                        or
                            try something else

But my life without music would be so f***ing boring and empty that I`m ready to do anything to play. When I start to play I forget the whole world. It`s like a drug.

[raffyplayspiano]

hey everyone,
this, i must say, is a great topic.  Its actually quite scary because i was thinking about this just this last weekend.  After a particularly mediocre recital, i started to wonder, "all that practice, was it even worth it?" 

Should i be doing other things besides practicing that I am missing out on?  Am I ever going to be good enough? etc etc

in reality,  even if i felt i wanted to leave the piano, or not be as dedicated to it as I am now, I don tthink i could.  Its not easy, but nothing in life worth time really is easy.  Everytrhing requires time and dedication, and there are going rto be times when we are going to be discouraged and want to quit, or we might question if we are working too hard for too little in return.  Yet, as far as i see it, you only live once.  If im going to be a struggling musician all my life, I am still going to be happier than if i pursued another carrer, was successfull, but still wondering what would have happened if i stuck with the piano. 

just my two cents...great topic though!
raffy

[AvoidedCadence]

Thank you everyone.  Especially m1469 and Bernhard.  And Motrax.

I am also studying to become a physicist.  However, since I have no actual experience in a research environment yet (hopefully next summer), and because I am very distrustful of bureaucracies in general, chances are that I will not indulge my love of pure knowledge (I also thought about math and philosophy - the two most ivory-tower disciplines) by becoming a university professor/researcher.  If I do stay in physics, I will look for a job in industry (optics? electronics? materials?) somewhere.

Of course, I am also a pianist.  Although I've played for most of my life, it's only recently (after discovering all the great masters of the piano, and meeting my piano teacher at university) that I've really become deeply into it.  For the first time, I've felt I had the chance to take my playing SOMEWHERE.  Not that I have a wonderful technique or anything - it's just that I have learned how to control my direction more.  I don't feel so much like I'm wading into pieces that I don't understand (until I met Ravel )  And I love  performing.  It's so much fun.

So now I'm not really sure which way I want to go.  I am realizing that either way will involve a sacrifice of the other.  I'm scared of losing my piano, but at the same time I don't seriously think I can "make it" as a pianist.  I'm unable to throw away everything and play for 8+ hours/day on a regular basis, which is unfortunately what you need (in addition to huge talent) to win competitions these days.  Not that I don't wish I could, and wonder how to make myself practice this much .

So that's my personal issue.

On sacrifice in general:  What (for example) Horowitz did wasn't a sacrifice.  He loved the piano, and loved performing.  He claimed never to have practiced more than 4 hours/day (a claim made by my own teacher as well), was happily married, enjoyed his hobbies, and probably helped his emotional problems by playing the piano.  (Maybe it kept him sane.  I sometimes think it keeps me sane).  On top of that, he was one of the most respected pianists of the last century.

In contrast, if you sacrifice 8-14 hours/day practicing, don't have a social life, and fail to become a concert pianist, and also feel compelled to practice even when you don't enjoy what you are doing, and don't enjoy your lifestyle, that's a sacrifice - you have lost more than you gained.

I asked about sacrifice under the disguise of discussing a novel in the non-piano section: 

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,10979.0.html

I am also reading Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game) (another Hesse novel) at the moment.  Maybe I will have more to say when I have finished.

I haven't yet said everything I want to on this topic.  Very personal, important, and alternately inspiring and disturbing.

[pianogeek_cz]

I have the same problem. I`m 15 and it`s time for me to decide:
                     should I sacrifice everything for music
                                        or
                            try something else

But my life without music would be so f***ing boring and empty that I`m ready to do anything to play. When I start to play I forget the whole world. It`s like a drug.

You speak my mind.

[pizno]

Love this thread.  Thanks to Bernard and Ted, you put things very succinctly.  I am 48 and fortunate enough to be able to work only part time, and not at all in the summer because my kids are home.  But they are teenagers and don't need my constant attention.  I have played piano since I was 7 and have gone in and out of enthusiasm for it.  Right now I am at an all time high, and have been for the past year and a half.  2 hours of practice a day is my goal.  I have various low key performance outlets.  I do feel a little guilty, though.  Playing the piano is, quite truthfully, really quite self centered.  My husband talks about his stressful day and I talk about working through a passage of Chopin. Fortunately he accepts and understands this.  I often wonder what my ultimate goal is.  To get better.  To play better.  To take it seriously and be more knowledgeable and have some really solid performances where someone says, wow.  She got it.  And I say, wow.  I got it.  There are so many bumps along the way.  Problems in learning, reaching beyond my abilities and being told that I am not good enough to play THAT yet.  But something keeps us going, and I think what it is is sitting down and just making this gorgeous music, and having the goal of playing it as well as we can, having people appreciate it.  It's the meditative process, being lost in it completely.

[arensky]

Hypothetical situation:  Pianist's career did not end up going as planned and Pianist seems to be a little bitter at the world. 

Pianist says he/she loves the piano more than anyone can imagine, and advises that it is all about what one is willing to sacrifice.  S/he has already accomplished some extraordinary things.

Pianist seems to have sacrificed just about everything.  For what?

How much is too much?

m1469

Most Piano careers don't go as planned, and Pianists are sort of a bitter bunch anyway(I just read the replies to Alde's Lang Lang post; read them if you don't believe me!).
Is about what you're willing to sacrifice, or what you're willing to give? Opposite sides of the same coin, it's a matter of perspective. Pianist has sacrificed to accomplish extraordinary things. Nowhere is it written in stone that Pianist must play piano and sacrifice, except maybe in the former U.S.S.R. If Pianist is miserable, what's the point?  ;Pianist is also a person, unless they been in the practice room so long they have forgotten that. Sounds to me like Pianist should take a week or two in Jamaica, or at least take a walk outside! The technique and ability will not vanish if Pianist misses a few days; they will probably improve, like fine wine aging in the barrel :)Only the Pianist can decide when it's too much.

[arensky]

I have the same problem. I`m 15 and it`s time for me to decide:
                     should I sacrifice everything for music
                                        or
                            try something else

But my life without music would be so f***ing boring and empty that I`m ready to do anything to play. When I start to play I forget the whole world. It`s like a drug.

Why do you have to sacrifice everything? Try music, if it doesn't work out like you want you can always do something else. And doing something else to make money doesn't mean you can't play the piano again, or that you're some kind of loser. What you need to figure out is what it is about being a professional that is important to you. Oh, and the druglike hedonistic aspects of enjoying music have no place in professional performing . Not that you should be a computer, but your first responsibility is to intoxicate the audience, not yourself ! This requires discipline and hard work. It's good you're thinking about this now. 

         _{The devil take the poets who dare to sing the praises of an artist's life!  Louis Moreau Gottschalk}

[m1469]

Okay, I am going crazy with this *rips hair out*....  Do we really have to make these kinds of decisions ??!!   

Shouldn't things compliment each other ?   something's just not right about this...


*double... triple career* 

[bernhard]

Okay, I am going crazy with this *rips hair out*....  Do we really have to make these kinds of decisions ??!!   

If you don’t make decisions, decisions are made for you (Most of the time decisions are made for you even when you make your own decisions ).

Shouldn't things compliment each other ?   something's just not right about this...


*double... triple career* 

Yes. Time.

[m1469]

As a child you had the dreams and desires of a child...

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

And I would like those back now.

m1469 Fox

[whynot]

m1469... you don't need to get those childhood dreams and desires back.  Maybe you're feeling nostalgic for the days when you believed and hoped that anything was possible.  But now you KNOW that anything is possible.  "You're not behind, don't try to catch up."   

[pianistimo]

free thinkers often get into trouble past their adolescence.  how do i know this?  because i've never thought 'realistically' about my 'career.'  this is a bad thing to admit - and probably - like bernhard said - some decisions that you make in life you may view later on a large lcd and see how it affected people.  i'd visit grandma and ask where the piano was - and could she take me to the uni and let me practice for a few hours.  (didn't want to lose repertoire whilst on summer vacation). 

i can't say majoring in music was a bad thing for me, though, because i've used it with lessons, accompanying, so many things.  but, if i was to support a family with the money - ha!  now, if a was a performing artist, too, or had more students (but certain people can only handle so many).  my step-dad tried to show me how to try other things in college - but i was stubborn and usually only took music classes and piano lessons.  other things were more difficult, thus i preferred music because it came somewhat easy at the time and i enjoyed it.

now, after reading this book at barnes and noble about 'how to prepare teens for real-life' - maybe the thing that is lacking in adolescents moving to adulthood is the realization that whatever you do, it's going to be work.  and that work is good. and, if you have a lot of it - you are successful.  music performance careers are probably more work than any other - mentally, physically, etc.  i never bothered talking to a real life concert artist and realistically determining if this was a valid career for me.  i think, in reality for me it will be a hobby.  i love it. it's not a sacrifice.  but, if i was trying to support my family BY myself - it would take to long to work up each program.

i think the sacrifices in my life are becoming fewer because i sort of naturally choose to work harder and longer now.  when things don't look good - or people tell me this and that - i automatically sift out the info that i keep and just dump the rest without thinking so hard about it.  it's like - once you are on the path that robert frost spoke of (two paths diverging - you take one and not the other and realize you're not coming back to the other)...you just say 'wow, i was right!  i like this path.  it's difficult - but it's easy. it's what i wanted to do.  it's not all about the money - and if i am creative enough - i'll do several things in this field (lessons, work at music store, sell pianos, tune pianos, perform occasionally, play for special occasions, play for church, etc.) that combined together will make an adequate income and still fulfill my reason for being.

ps this isn't really a reply to maylas ideas - just a post of my own.  she is probably a much harder worker and just expresses many ideas, as we all feel, about eliminating unnecessary things in our lives so we can focus on what we are 'supposed' to do.  as you get older - you just start doing what you like again (return of adolescence?) and have more time for sacrificing sleep to learn a piece or whatever you do that's a sacrifice and you don't feel like it's a sacrifice because you just like doing it.

[m1469]

Well, I think I am finally starting to get it actually.  When I look at the big picture, which in most cases I am better at doing than seeing the smaller picture, it is hard for me to distinguish between things.  I start feeling trapped and like I can't move.  But, I just remembered what it feels like to be totally absorbed in something I am doing, in a way where I don't care what else I might be missing.  You're all right !  When that is happening, it does not feel like a sacrifice.

Yes, part of me has felt nostalgic, remembering the sense of hope (which brought confidence) about the things I thought about.  It was just like I could do things and not think so much about everything.  But, whynot, you're right.  I do know what is possible, I suppose I ought to be less timid in life.

Boldness and courage, along with patience and diligence, are my next focus in life.


m1469

[ahinton]

It seems not to have occurred to anyone who has so far contributed to this thread (which could perhaps as easily been about any other instrument, but as it is about the piano I will of course endeavour to confine my comments appropriately) that the extent of "sacrifice" that might be involved in developing at least the means wherewith successfully to pursue a pianistic career (which is not, of course, necessarily the same as actually being able to pursue one successfully) is in part down to
1. the sheer quantity of repertoire that needs now to be absorbed and
2. the demands made upon the performer by the composers.
In short - why not blame the composers for the very need to ask such questions?

I write as one who is not a pianist but a composer who has written what some might deem to be a disproportionate amount of music for the piano. Technical standards are increasing with every second that passes and so, as a direct consequence, are many people's expectations from performers. Add that fact to a situation in which a successful solo pianist ought to be expected to be adept at Finnissy, Barrett, Ferneyhough, etc., Carter and Xenakis, Ligeti, Sorabji, Bartók and Prokofiev, Godowsky and Busoni, Alkan, Liszt, Schumann and Chopin, Beethoven, Bach, the English Elizabethan keyboard composers - and perhaps also have taken on board some period instrument work and embraced jazz and other persuasions in order to be taken at all seriously as any kind of well-rounded pianist (and I realise here that I have merely selected at random some particular pianistic disciplines) - and the kinds of "sacrifice" involved might be better understood.

As long as composers continue to express more new thoughts for the piano, that situation can only continue to grow...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

oh, thanks!  that's really encouraging.  (just kidding) actually, you are right!  audiences get bored with the same old repertoire each concert.  they need new music and to see new ideas and new ways of playing - so pianists have to keep current with something that adds a little 'sparkle' to their program.  i don't like  playing music that is not understandable TO ME. so whatever new music i pick, i try to understand it and like it myself.  but, there is a lot of music out there.

really great that you are a composer! 

[countchocula]

m1469 -
Keep in mind that there basically IS no career out there for a pianist, any more than there is a career in playing the lottery.  This is true, no matter what anyone tells you here.  If you really consider just how many pianists there are in the world who are actually making a living playing the piano, the number is extremely small.  Believe it or not, the number is probably less than 30 or 35 in the world - that is true!  All the rest must teach, or do something else in addition to playing, in order to survive.  There simply aren't that many LangLangs or Kissins or Pollinis out there.  Think about it.  If you look at "Musical America" magazine, you will see many many pianists listed in there, all with managers and photos and recordings, reviews, etc.  m1469 believe me, they are struggling professionally just like you - they are not getting the concerts that you imagine they do - very few do. In fact, that magazine is the most misleading magazine I have ever seen - everyone appears so busy and successful.  Don't you believe it.  So you haven't really failed at all, because the odds are so very much against you, almost to the point of impossible - no matter how good you are!  If you can create a kind of local career - being known in your city, some area recognition - enough to play a few times a year wherever you are, then you have succeeded to a large extent.  But it is unrealistic for anybody, no matter how talented, to expect an international career playing the piano.  
Don't be discouraged, just set your goals a little more realistically.  Then, you can sacrifice knowing that you were never kidding yourself, and then you will probably succeed.
Remember, success is always relative.

[ahinton]

m1469 -
Keep in mind that there basically IS no career out there for a pianist, any more than there is a career in playing the lottery.  This is true, no matter what anyone tells you here.  If you really consider just how many pianists there are in the world who are actually making a living playing the piano, the number is extremely small.  Believe it or not, the number is probably less than 30 or 35 in the world - that is true!  All the rest must teach, or do something else in addition to playing, in order to survive.  There simply aren't that many LangLangs or Kissins or Pollinis out there.  Think about it.  If you look at "Musical America" magazine, you will see many many pianists listed in there, all with managers and photos and recordings, reviews, etc.  m1469 believe me, they are struggling professionally just like you - they are not getting the concerts that you imagine they do - very few do. In fact, that magazine is the most misleading magazine I have ever seen - everyone appears so busy and successful.  Don't you believe it.  So you haven't really failed at all, because the odds are so very much against you, almost to the point of impossible - no matter how good you are!  If you can create a kind of local career - being known in your city, some area recognition - enough to play a few times a year wherever you are, then you have succeeded to a large extent.  But it is unrealistic for anybody, no matter how talented, to expect an international career playing the piano.  
Don't be discouraged, just set your goals a little more realistically.  Then, you can sacrifice knowing that you were never kidding yourself, and then you will probably succeed.
Remember, success is always relative.

Much of the above is largely true, although I think it fair to state that, in citing "less than 30 - 35" such pianists - as the writer does here - is something of an exaggeration. In any case, it must also be remembered that some successful career pianists (if indeed there realistically can even be such a category) may actually choose, rather than merely be forced by circumstance, also to be conductors, composers, musicologists; the Swedish pianist Fredrik Ullén, for example, is also a professional neuroscientist!

Best,

Alistair

[g_s_223]

One of the things that concerns me is whether we are producing "too many" musicians, in the sense that it is doubtful the profession can accommodate them. Therefore, there will be many broken dreams. I guess in countries where you pay for your education, that's your decision: but in others the state pays for some of it, so matters of resource allocation do come into it.

[countchocula]

Much of the above is largely true, although I think it fair to state that, in citing "less than 30 - 35" such pianists - as the writer does here - is something of an exaggeration. In any case, it must also be remembered that some successful career pianists (if indeed there realistically can even be such a category) may actually choose, rather than merely be forced by circumstance, also to be conductors, composers, musicologists; the Swedish pianist Fredrik Ullén, for example, is also a professional neuroscientist!

Best,

Alistair

Mr. Hinton,
Possibly, but I don't think I was exaggerating.  I think the worldwide number of pianists who earn their living from only playing the piano is exceedingly low.  If there is a list of more than 50 pianists who are doing that, then it is encouraging, and I am surprised.  But I was totally serious in that estimation.  I know that it seems like an impossibly low figure, but after some thought I think it is fairly accurate.  Can you or anyone else put together even a partial list of active pianists who are so very busy touring and concertizing and recording that they have no need to pursue any supplemental income?  Would that list be more than 35? 40? 50?  I would be sincerely grateful to see that list.
- Thanks,
- Count Chocula
Would Fredrik Ullen, were he not a neuroscientist, be earning enough from simply playing the piano to not have to do anything else? 

[lostinidlewonder]

How can you expect anything out of a creative career? It isn't like being... an engineer, you can expect after so many years to get promotions to better positions in your company. but in music, especially a peformance career, YOU are the product and "promotions" in that is highlighted by your playing and personal growth/understanding with the music. You get no money for that, no fame for that, just personal satisfaction.

If you want to get somewhere you have to push for it, there is no easy way around it, a tonn of sacrifice. Some people do it through winning competition, composing something amazing, keeping company with famous people (standing on the shoulders of giants) the majority do it on their own steam, self initiative. Since most musicians are very sensitive people, they get hurt easily and a lot more of them are not business minded, so when they try for a peformance career and fall flat on their face, or see little change, they get desperate and give up, some never even try.

So some musicians think they have to sacrifice more and more, play more demanding music, stuff to show off skill, they are going about it the wrong way. You have to play things which people can relate to, even if it is very obscure music, it is the musicians duty to create pathways through speech so that the general adience can learn to relate to it. Most professional musicians are extremely passionate about their music so if asked to talk about it then could do it all day, so this doesn't become a task, but effective speeches is an artform in itself, we have to be entertaining, not just blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzzzz. This factor is often what makes or breaks a young concert peformer career. The 21st century wants entertainers, not tight lipped keyboard virtuosos who bow nicely and play perfectly.

[ahinton]

Would Fredrik Ullen, were he not a neuroscientist, be earning enough from simply playing the piano to not have to do anything else?

I have absolutely no idea how much Mr Ullén earns, either from his piano playing or from his nueroscientific work and, in any case, neither is any of my business; my point in mentioning him was that, as I understand it, he juggles these two ways of life as a matter of choice rather than out of necessity and that he would clearly expect to earn considerably more from his piano playing were he to choose instead to pursue that part of his career alone, simply as a consequence of performing more frequently.

The creation of a list such as you mention would likely be fraught with difficulties to the extent that its compiler would necessarily have to gain access in certain cases to pianists' confidential financial records; again, in so doing, it would be salutary to remember that the Ullén case is not likely to be unique, in that there will also be other pianists out there who choose - rather than are forced - to divide their time between playing and another activity (albeit not usually one so far removed from it as Mr Ullén's is).

In pointing all of this out, however, I do not seek to undermine the difficulties facing the pianist from a career standpoint; why would I? - after all, it's infinitely worse for composers, as i should know!

Best,

Alistair

[countchocula]

In pointing all of this out, however, I do not seek to undermine the difficulties facing the pianist from a career standpoint; why would I? - after all, it's infinitely worse for composers, as i should know!

That's for sure - sorry about that!
But I don't think one would need to gain access to a pianist's personal financial statements - one only needs his concert schedule or touring agenda, which are often openly advertised for general viewing on that pianist's website.  Generally speaking, here in the USA (I don't know where you are writing from) it is very difficult to get solo recitals that pay more than $1000 - they usually pay somewhere between $500 - $1000 (that is for the average conservatory grad/competition winner, etc. - not what Evgeny Kissin gets, obviously) At that fee, a pianist needs to play more than 40 or 50 recitals per year to barely keep up with the cost of living here.  That's alot of recitals, you know, and THAT is NOT the kind of schedule that just every pianist can enjoy!  It's basically impossible, even for a pianist of considerable experience.  Mr. Hinton, please appreciate the fact that I am dealing in REAL figures here, I'm not speculating what COULD or MIGHT be, or what I THINK happens when one pursues a "career", like you are, and like everyone else in this forum seems to be doing.  I know that these are real examples and numbers that I am giving you, because I am in the middle of it, and so are many of my friends here in NYC.  Basically, there is no "career" as a concert pianist.  It is important to get this message out, because there is a false impression that a career as a concert pianist is possible for anyone who is talented and works hard.  It is not, even if you do have "connections".  Someone like m1469 should know that it isn't her fault that she is not recording for Sony Classical and touring the world as a virtuoso.  She has not "failed" at all.  Some of my friends are people that you might already know of, major competition winners, with good connections, and recordings, etc. and they are still struggling.  They wonder what will happen to them in the next few years, as am I, and we are already looking for alternate sources of income.  Teaching, administrative positions, even selling pianos are all options.
I am not writing this to be depressing or discouraging - I love the piano - but I don't like the fact that so many young people are told that if they are dedicated and talented, work hard and stick with it, that they will someday have a career.  Then they feel like a failure later when they invariably do not have that career, and that is a shame, because they never really had any chance at all - the "pianist's career" is largely a myth.
- Count Chocula

[lostinidlewonder]

Generally speaking, here in the USA (I don't know where you are writing from) it is very difficult to get solo recitals that pay more than $1000 - they usually pay somewhere between $500 - $1000 (that is for the average conservatory grad/competition winner, etc. - not what Evgeny Kissin gets, obviously)

Let's look at the numbers. If I do a larger concert which sits 800 people and I sell the tickets at say $15 for children/concession and $20 for adult, say the average cost per ticket is $16.50. So if I manage to sell all 800 tickets that is 800x$16.50 = $13,200  . Lets minus the booking fee that all halls usually take which is no more than $2.20 per ticket in my experience (any more and they are ripping you off). Booking fee comes to 800x$2.20=$1760, cost for hiring a larger hall like this say $1,200, hiring of technicians and equipment usually no more than $500 depending on how many hours you use them for. Say another $500 for advertising and promotional costs. Paying tax say 35% of the total earnings (13,200x0.35 = $4620 . So we are left with

(13,200-1200-1760-500-500-4620) = about $6000. And I am not famous or world renowned.

This is what I have been consistently making every large concert I do. The reason why I can do this is because I organise it all, I promote myself and I am my own manager. Of course I have people who are there, good friends and family who also sell tickets and spread the word that I do a concert but the most of my efforts will be done through self promotion.

Sure if I sit back and expect that 1000 hours of piano practice in a room will sell tickets, I am in for a rude awakening. That is why most concert peformers who do their own concerts earn diddly squat. They know everything about music, nothing about marketing.

I am not writing this to be depressing or discouraging - I love the piano - but I don't like the fact that so many young people are told that if they are dedicated and talented, work hard and stick with it, that they will someday have a career. Then they feel like a failure later when they invariably do not have that career, and that is a shame, because they never really had any chance at all - the "pianist's career" is largely a myth.

I tell every single student of mine who makes that mad decision to take music professionally that if they want to become cocnert performers they have to learn how to market themselves, learn how to advertise themselves, learn how to SELL themselves. To survive is more than just playing, you have to be very aggressive and focus your marketing, not scatter gun, putting posters here or there, getting newspaper articles, talking on radio, yes these of course you do but they will sell you not many tickets. You have to be prepared to go out, do many many small concerts to sell tickets for your larger concert. This is VERY HARD and you have to naturally love people and be very socialable. This is a trait most musicians don't have, they are usually very arrogant or have music shoved up their a$$ so far that they think they are king of the world. Or they are desperately shy, using music solely to express themselves. Every prospective concert musician MUST learn marketing, they MUST learn how to sell a product, they must learn the art of speech. This is something music schools do not teach.

[countchocula]

Let's look at the numbers. If I do a larger concert which sits 800 people and I sell the tickets at say $15 for children/concession and $20 for adult, say the average cost per ticket is $16.50. So if I manage to sell all 800 tickets...

You're Dreaming.

And if you expect us to believe that you are selling all 800 tickets, at $15-$20, for all your recitals, then you're lying too.

Have a nice day.

***Actually I am now back to modify this posting - I clicked on your profile, and I see that you are from Perth, West Australia.  I can't speak for the cultural climate in Perth, West Autralia, but I can definitly speak for the entire USA, which is where I live.  Here, self-promoting a concert is a joke, as I know it is elsewhere else.  If you are even going to dream about attracting several hundred people, you need to have a built-in audience, such as at a festival or a series.  My strong suspicion is that you can IMAGINE doing things the way you described, and so you think that there wouldn't be much harm in saying that you actually already did that.  But you are still just lying, and there is always harm in doing that.  My answer to your ridiculous claim is: "if you think it really works that way, then just try it".  You are truly "lost in idle wonder".
Again, have a nice day.

[ahinton]

That's for sure - sorry about that!

No need to apologise - not to me, at any rate!

But I don't think one would need to gain access to a pianist's personal financial statements - one only needs his concert schedule or touring agenda, which are often openly advertised for general viewing on that pianist's website.  Generally speaking, here in the USA (I don't know where you are writing from) it is very difficult to get solo recitals that pay more than $1000 - they usually pay somewhere between $500 - $1000 (that is for the average conservatory grad/competition winner, etc. - not what Evgeny Kissin gets, obviously) At that fee, a pianist needs to play more than 40 or 50 recitals per year to barely keep up with the cost of living here.  That's alot of recitals, you know, and THAT is NOT the kind of schedule that just every pianist can enjoy!  It's basically impossible, even for a pianist of considerable experience.  Mr. Hinton, please appreciate the fact that I am dealing in REAL figures here, I'm not speculating what COULD or MIGHT be, or what I THINK happens when one pursues a "career", like you are, and like everyone else in this forum seems to be doing.  I know that these are real examples and numbers that I am giving you, because I am in the middle of it, and so are many of my friends here in NYC.  Basically, there is no "career" as a concert pianist.

"Not what Evgeny Kissin gets", is just the point - my point, that is - about there being rather more career pianists than you suggest; there are greater numbers of pianist than you seem to think there are who command fees in excess of those you quote (although this is not the sole consideration here - see below). I do not propose to invite other forum members to spend their time listing pianists who almost certainly make a successful living at it, merely for the purpose of observing just how far beyond your suggested maxima we get. Were such a list to be compiled, however, it should realistically include people who do not make their living entirely from piano playing but who have done so in the past and could do so again if they so chose - Daniel Barenboim and Vladimir Ashkenazy, for example. That said, I feel sure that the outcome of such an exercise would eventually generate agreement that there are quite a few more career pianists (what an awful term, in any case! - but I think that we all understand its meaning in this particular context) than you suspect.

The business of "making a living" is, in itself, another rather elastic concept in any case. Not only is one person's view of "making a living" different to the next person's view, there is also the question of where one lives; you are based in US and I operate in UK - it is well known that the cost of almost everything over here is vastly greater than it is in US. Also, an international touring pianist may well command larger fees in some countries than in others and larger fees in some types of venue than in others. That said, one of the most important factors remains that of whether the pianist can secure sufficient (though not too many!) decent dates to make a career viable for him/her.

You write of "40-50" programmes per year as though it is some kind of excessive figure. Maurizio Pollini has long since limited himself to a figure in this area and it is widely accepted that he gives considerably fewer performances than most other pianists of his or similar stature. The business of taking any and every date that comes, resulting in an excessive numbers of performances to which you rightly draw attention (but just use the wrong figures to illustrate!), is indeed a potentially dangerous situation for pianists fortunate enough to be in a position to be offered them; one has only to look at what happened years ago to John Ogdon, whose immense vocabulary and command of the English language nevertheless failed to extend to a proper understanding of the word "no".

Of course, the matter of recordings has not been mentioned so far - a pianist's career will inevitably involve time spent in this area of activity as well as appearances on the concert stage, so "numbers of performances" is in any case not the entire story of a successful career pianist's life.

As I have stated previously, developing a successful exclusive career as a pianist is certainly for the few only - and it's a hard life trying to achieve it and an even harder one at the top once it has been acieved; I just don't believe that it is for quite as few as you suggest, that's all!

Best,

Alistair

[countchocula]

I do not propose to invite other forum members to spend their time listing pianists who almost certainly make a successful living at it, merely for the purpose of observing just how far beyond your suggested maxima we get. . . I feel sure that the outcome of such an exercise would eventually generate agreement that there are quite a few more career pianists (what an awful term, in any case! - but I think that we all understand its meaning in this particular context) than you suspect.


You write of "40-50" programmes per year as though it is some kind of excessive figure. Maurizio Pollini has long since limited himself to a figure in this area and it is widely accepted that he gives considerably fewer performances than most other pianists of his or similar stature.

"...who almost certainly make a successful living at it"?  You would be surprised.  Again, you are speculating, and I don't blame you.  I would think the same thing if I didn't know better.  I don't know how many "concert pianists" that you know personally, but I do know a few, and I'll bet that you would think that they are making a "successful living" at it - but they are not.  I will not name names, you understand why.  But just because their recordings are seen and heard and known, and once in a while their names show up on a recital series, and you see a nice publicity photo of them in a tux, does not mean they are earning a successful living.  And I do not agree that "making a living" is a subjective issue.  I mean it in the most basic sense - rent, food, insurance, bills, supporting a family, etc. 
Actually the last thing I need to see is a list compiled by members of this forum, who assume that every pianist that they know and like is making a decent living playing the piano. It would be  ridiculous, sad, and erroneous. 
And no, pianists who "choose" to do other things besides piano, although they "could" make a living at it if they chose to, does not fly here.  Again, that's just speculation.
And yes, 50 programs a year IS a very busy schedule, by any standards - what exactly are you thinking?  Pollini happened to be one of the biggest names in classical music - of course he will get that many engagements.  On top of that, his recitals are all for very nice fees, in the thousands of course.  I am not talking about the Pollinis, or Kissins, or Perahias or Brendels or Manny Ax - please don't give names like that as examples to prove your point. 
Mr. Hinton, I know that you are sincere, and I understand why you think what you think.  But  concerts largely do not pay as well as you think they do, even for pianists with "names".  Forget about a pianist with little or no reputation.  Just forget it.
I wish you were right though.
Count Chocula

[ahinton]

"...who almost certainly make a successful living at it"?  You would be surprised.  Again, you are speculating, and I don't blame you.  I would think the same thing if I didn't know better.  I don't know how many "concert pianists" that you know personally, but I do know a few, and I'll bet that you would think that they are making a "successful living" at it - but they are not.  I will not name names, you understand why.  But just because their recordings are seen and heard and known, and once in a while their names show up on a recital series, and you see a nice publicity photo of them in a tux, does not mean they are earning a successful living.  And I do not agree that "making a living" is a subjective issue.  I mean it in the most basic sense - rent, food, insurance, bills, supporting a family, etc. 
Actually the last thing I need to see is a list compiled by members of this forum, who assume that every pianist that they know and like is making a decent living playing the piano. It would be  ridiculous, sad, and erroneous. 
And no, pianists who "choose" to do other things besides piano, although they "could" make a living at it if they chose to, does not fly here.  Again, that's just speculation.
And yes, 50 programs a year IS a very busy schedule, by any standards - what exactly are you thinking?  Pollini happened to be one of the biggest names in classical music - of course he will get that many engagements.  On top of that, his recitals are all for very nice fees, in the thousands of course.  I am not talking about the Pollinis, or Kissins, or Perahias or Brendels or Manny Ax - please don't give names like that as examples to prove your point. 
Mr. Hinton, I know that you are sincere, and I understand why you think what you think.  But  concerts largely do not pay as well as you think they do, even for pianists with "names".  Forget about a pianist with little or no reputation.  Just forget it.
I wish you were right though.
Count Chocula

Once again, I really do wish that you didn't assume that I am 100% arguing with your view here; I'd hoped that I'd made it clear that this is far from being the case. The fact that I think that your global figure of 30-35 seems to me to be something of an understatement in no wise alters the validity or the seriousness of the problem to which you are absolutely right to draw attention. Of course I won't insult you by running off a list of names to prove or disprove anything and, as I have already stated, I do not seek to encourage anyone else to try to do so here.

Not long ago, a prominent Englishman observed that he derived less than £10,000 annually from his work as a composer; he is nevertheless principally known as a composer. I could hardly agree more with you in terms of the plaint that it is well-nigh impossible for the vast majority of people to make a reliable and continuous year-on-year living either as pianists (or any other kind of performer) or composers - and this situation is arguably getting worse as we write, in many territories and for a variety of reasons not least of which is the vast and ever-increasing numbers of people engaged in the creative and re-creative practice of music. And let the teachers not be let off lightly either - I do not teach, but let us consider for one moment all those performers and composers of the next generation who will find it harder and harder still to make out, but who for the most part might not even have entered the fray at all were it not for the dedicated and encouraging work of their teachers. It's not simply a case of (as the old cliché begins) "those who can, do: those who can't, teach"; it's a far more worrying matter than that. Given that the "those who can't"s will inevitably exceed the "those who can"s by an immense margin, the educational progeny of the former will only serve to swell those figures more and more as every second passes.

That said, the volumes of new people coming into the musical market place can have only one of two possible effects; the weight of those numbers would either cause collapse in the industry altogether or they would encourage even more people to run around making even more noise to try to raise even more funds for even more music performance, recording and broadcast in even more places. However unpleasing that ever more energetic scramble might on the surface seem, it nevertheless happens - and past experience suggests that, doom-mopngers notwithstanding, it will continue to do so. One should likewise consider the saturation factor that may thereby be deemed to threaten the end users - i.e. the listeners; people not only don't have ever-expanding wallets wherewith to purchase ever more recordings and concert tickets, but they also don't have ever-expanding amounts of free time to listen. The evidence shows, however, that this is just too bad -for there's no stalling the sheer steamroller effect, any more than there's any realistic way of reliably discouraging those with an internal motivation from going for it. So be it!

Best,

Alistair