Probably the worst article I've seem about music lessons

[clariano]

  https://parentingsquad.com/the-high-cost-of-music

Meri

[quantum]

I empathize with her children.

[liordavid]

I do not know what is going through that woman's mind. Someone needs to tell her that you can't get thourough piano lessons from people on the street

[perfect_pitch]

I just dismiss her as being a crank...

She's obviously misguided... Who here honestly teaches 40 full hours at $60 an hour???

And who teaches every week of the year doing 40 hours solid? Anyone?

Plus, even if you did - the taxed rate in Australia would come down to about $35 an hour (roughly)

She's a misinformed idiot who once again, found solace in the fact that any idiot can put their rantings and ravings onto the internet.

She's a moron.

[Bob]

Filed under extracurricular.

"Masterpieces" sounds a little sarcastic.  Sounds like she's putting up with art because it's good for her kids.

About 120 grand a year, assuming a 40 hour work week.  I don't know anyone who has a 9-5 teaching job for private lessons.  There's work outside the lesson and a lot of people aren't free in the mornings.

I like the average pay for performing musicians.  I've never seen that before.

Ouch... Out-of-work musician = piano teacher.  Ouch.

Wow.  "Any sidewalk musician could probably teach her to identify her notes and bang a few chords."

And she's assuming her musical abilities are her kid's.

So the solution is to leave her kid with a bum off the street.  And hope that bum will inspire her kid to get started in music. 


I've seen that attitude out there though.  I don't think it's uncommon.

Maybe the teacher didn't want to put up with this lady and gave her a special high price.

[Bob]

I do not know what is going through that woman's mind. Someone needs to tell her that you can't get thourough piano lessons from people on the street

"Pst... Hey buddy... Wanna a piano lesson?  *scratch, scratch, scratch* Come on man.  Just one.  I'll give you the first one for free.  *hacking coughing fit* After that I charge.  But I'm cheap.  'Cause I live on the street.  Here, see my cardboard piano.  It's a grand.  *hacking and wheezing*  It doubles as a house.  Come on, man, don't you wanna lesson with me?  I mean ma'am.  *hack and spit* Just leave you kid with me for about 30 minutes.  *scratch, scratch, scratch*  It's perfectly safe.  I can almost guarantee they won't have mites or anything when they come back."


[It wasn't as easy to find a picture of a "bum" as I thought.  I got other kinds of bums.]

[nanabush]

Lmao that's exactly what I was picturing!

What a moron.  I don't think anyone in the world has 40 hours worth of RELIABLE students in a week! 

[birba]

Being a writer, she's probably drumming up fiction for her next best-seller.

[Bob]

If you pay a bum money for a piano lessons, they're probably only going to spend it on some Hanon.





Here are some classical musician bums hanging out on the street, waiting to give quality lessons to who ever happens to pass by.  



Actually if they did charge $20/hour and waited around on the street, they probably couldn't afford to live in any kind of structure.  Must be tough when it rains too.

(Is that Barton-Pine?  ... Yes, it is.  https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/90795390/Premium-Archive.) So those aren't real street bums.  I'm shocked.  It's people like that who drive up prices on the good, honest street bums trying to teach music lessons.  


Here's another street musician you could take lessons from.  Click at your own risk.  You've been warned.
https://photos.upi.com/view/d41751ab145ed2f11ea22a1d4f1d6be2/THE-NAKED-COWBOY-NEW-YORK-CITY-STREET-MUSICIAN.jpg




"Spare some attention for a lesson man?"

[birba]

If you pay a bum money for a piano lessons, they're probably only going to spend it on some Hanon.

Loved that!

[jcabraham]

She's obviously misguided... Who here honestly teaches 40 full hours at $60 an hour???

And who teaches every week of the year doing 40 hours solid? Anyone?

My piano teacher has been in business for one year, and she appears to be booked 8-10 hours per day, 6-7 days per week. She even worked the 4th of July (US holiday). She's good, but it's still an absolute mystery to me. Of course, this is the Boston area, and it's full of overachieving parents who want their kids to similarly overachieve.

[timothy42b]

I just dismiss her as being a crank...

She's obviously misguided...

Nah.

Neither a crank nor misguided.

She's simply writing humor.  It's no different from a late night standup comic routine.  It isn't intended to be taken as factual.  It's actually fairly well done.  For that kind of thing. 

[mrsmusic13]

I was not impressed with this article whatsoever and found it more insulting than humorous. (I even checked out her blog) The writer lives in Lexington, a VERY expensive town outside of Boston. EVERYTHING is expensive in Lexington  If she bothered to check around, she'd find that there are very good teachers in towns in close proximity, where most teachers don't charge quite this much. Lexington always had a great music program in their schools and  so many lessons,classes of all types offered through the town itself. I couldn't afford to live there, even when I was fairly wealthy

Lou

[gyzzzmo]

She could just as much complain about that a private lesson from Lugansky costs 250$ (or w/e) while a paperboy earns 5$.
I suppose complaining in general is a womens thing 

(hiding) Gyzzzmo

[lovettmusic]

This woman is a total moron, and I pity her children who won't be pursuing music to their fullest potential.

Okay, so she can't pay and she's suffocating and closedminded-- but this line really got me mad:

"First question: Why do the out-of-work musicians (i.e., piano teachers) make more than the in-work (i.e., performing) ones? Just something to think about.

Granted, it can be quite stressful for the teacher when Flynn hasn’t practiced her scales. You do need specialized training to teach music. There’s no job security or benefits. But c'mon, the physical risk is low, and the overhead even lower. Can piano teachers honestly say that their job is really almost FIVE TIMES as much work as it is to get two bison to mate in a timely and productive manner? I know which career path I’d choose, given the option!"

First of all, I wouldn't consider a piano teacher "out-of-work," as if the only reason someone would teach an instrument is if they weren't good enough to get gigs on a regular basis.

We're worth paying for because we have a specialized skill that not many people have. Comparing music teachers to loggers and animal breeders doesn't make any logical sense. I'm not saying that I'm physically ready to operate heavy machinery or mate bison, but somehow I'm thinking there's not a lot of higher education involved in those fields.

AND I find this incredibly insensitive:

"Instead of playing for pennies outside the Red Line subway station, I bet I could convince them to help my daughter for $20 and a hot meal."

As if the only reason anyone would be a "sidewalk musician" is if they were desperate for a hot meal. This woman is full of general and uninformed statements.

[lostinidlewonder]

Most of the public have little idea how good buskers are (or how bad they are). They do not know that they do not know! I do remember reading an experiment the world famous violinist Joshua Bell did in New York. He played in a subway station for 45 minutes and only collected $32 (using a multi million dollar violin mind you), and that was during peak hour! Here's the story:

https://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp


For me anyway, this confirms that most people are often oblivious to the quality of street performers, and I think this extends to whether they pay attention to them or not!

[Bob]

At least we know we have some form of work available if we ever become homeless. 

[squigly]

Most of the public have little idea how good buskers are (or how bad they are). They do not know that they do not know! I do remember reading an experiment the world famous violinist Joshua Bell did in New York. He played in a subway station for 45 minutes and only collected $32 (using a multi million dollar violin mind you), and that was during peak hour! Here's the story:

https://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp


For me anyway, this confirms that most people are often oblivious to the quality of street performers, and I think this extends to whether they pay attention to them or not!

Of course most people where in a hurry. Of course most people cannot understand the difference of the sound between the best violin player holding the best violin and an average player with a budget organ. Even if there was a label saying that, they would just stare for few seconds and say "woooow" and maybe give 1$.

Do you think that if it was a warm June evening lets say around 18-20:00 and in a park with grass the results would be the same? There are many more factors to mention that we can end up with a musician being surrounded by hundreds of people and much more money.

For the payment subject. Do you pay taxes for all the money you receive? In my country teachers NEVER give a payment proof, so they don't pay taxes. These taxes now are shared among all the other civilians that cannot cheat from the tax office.

The writer has two kids as she mentions. Do you have an idea what her financial situation is? Why pay for a good 60$ teacher while she can hire a cheaper one and if her kid goes well she will "break out my wallet for the big guns.". In fact i know examples of children that started and gave up after even less than a year.

You are looking from the one side, yours, and you see what you want to see. You can't even understand the humor. Relax, read again, think again.

[Bob]

I don't know many that pay taxes.  The ones I know who teach full time aren't reporting their complete income either, just what's considered full time.  The rest doesn't exist for the IRS.

[lostinidlewonder]

Of course most people cannot understand the difference of the sound between the best violin player holding the best violin and an average player with a budget organ.

This is exactly what I was thinking as well and what provokes me to say if you at for street performers for lessons you just don't know what you are going to get

Do you think that if it was a warm June evening lets say around 18-20:00 and in a park with grass the results would be the same? There are many more factors to mention that we can end up with a musician being surrounded by hundreds of people and much more money.

Location and time is always important factors when performing in public. It is even more important than the performer themselves if they measure performance success in terms of the $. I think this experiment highlighted that perfectly (amongst other windows into how the general public behave).

For the payment subject. Do you pay taxes for all the money you receive? In my country teachers NEVER give a payment proof, so they don't pay taxes. These taxes now are shared among all the other civilians that cannot cheat from the tax office.

In the "Western world" you are expected to pay taxes, I guess there are some countries such as your own where teachers are not required to pay taxes. If you earn under a certain amount per year most western economies will not require you to pay any tax at all, I am sure you do not know the exact details of the monies that all the teachers in your country make most might only teach as a past time and earn very little per year thus do not require to declare any tax.

The writer has two kids as she mentions. Do you have an idea what her financial situation is? Why pay for a good 60$ teacher while she can hire a cheaper one and if her kid goes well she will "break out my wallet for the big guns.". In fact i know examples of children that started and gave up after even less than a year.

I agree do not pay big bucks for an excellent teacher to begin with. First see if your child likes the piano, get them to learn from any cheapo teacher. However the pitfall of hiring a cheap teacher is that you get a cheap service and you really get what you pay for. I charge more than most teachers and my students realize why after the first few lessons. Students of mine who had no teacher before have no idea how good the lessons really are, but those who come from other teachers highlight how much faster they progress and how much more interesting I make it. I am happy to blow my own trumpet here because I am very proud of my teaching craft and have been blessed with meeting the right people have having the right experiences to guide me on this path. Thus I happily increase my teaching fees because I know my product is better than the teachers who teach cheap and from a book or a set course, who have no idea of how music flows through the individual and the individual musical paths that are out there, has no concept of efficiency of learning and treat students like cattle.

Cheap teachers are also generally inexperienced teachers. They are cheap because they can get more customers that way, it keeps them competitive and people with little musical education knowledge will of generally choose the cheaper option. If I where cheaper I would get such an excess amount of students I would not have enough time in the week to deal with it. These cheap teachers charge a lesser fee and still have room to fit in more, says a great deal about their musical networking.

You are looking from the one side, yours, and you see what you want to see. You can't even understand the humor. Relax, read again, think again.

Think about what again? And I am relaxed, I don't see where I have been the opposite (*maybe my use of ! but it is more of an amazed emotion rather than anger). Even if it is humor it can be considered in more constructive terms as well, that was my choice and has nothing to do with being angry or unrelaxed.

[squigly]

They have to pay taxes but they don't because they CAN cheat and because all cheat so the ones that their conscience says to pay will follow the group or else they can be considered "stupid".

+1 for the dangers that hiring a cheap teacher hides. It is better to pay more for a good teacher that will try to keep the child "in game" with his professionalism than to hire a teacher that will eventually lead the children to quit.

My personal choice would be a cheap teacher with a good character, above all, for the beginning and if moved on, a more experienced one. Anyway i think the character is WAY more important at the start where you have to get a fairly good result and keep a low level expense.

Music teacher is a teacher firstly, that "specializes" in music. My next thought is for someone to have knowledge about children psychology although it might sounds weird or excessive.

My apologies for the last comment. I had a quote from your post but forgot to say that it is a general comment! I didn't have you in my mind. I started reading again this forum after few years (~4) and was expecting to read some open minded posts. Well, i found more than expected on the opposite side and that was the reason for this kind of advice.

[Bob]

I think it's very wise to get a good teacher at the beginning, even if you're paying more.  That could be the most critical stage.  You need a good teacher at every stage, but at the beginning the teacher can really screw a student up or simply turn them off to music for the rest of their lives.  It's like getting a cheap, crappy instrument to start -- It's not good enough to have a good experience on, so of course the kid quits.

[squigly]

Cheap does not mean crappy and good does not mean expensive.

I was paying my teacher 20 euros an hour, roughly about 27$. She is one of the best in her class. She has all day long lessons and we had hard time finding somewhere to place me in her schedule. 20 euros was the price you read, yes. According to what i read here in forum and her skills, she should charge around 60e~80$.

As for the cheap organs we have a powerful tool, internet. You can find unbelievable chances (either used or new) if you have the patience to search.

[Bob]

This person probably criticized their "on the street" teacher.  I bet that's the real story behind this.

https://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100912/ap_on_fe_st/us_odd_street_musician_scuffle;_ylt=AtewNB2T71AMMYCMgDUhccDtiBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJ2NjZpdHA1BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwOTEyL3VzX29kZF9zdHJlZXRfbXVzaWNpYW5fc2N1ZmZsZQRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDd2lzcG9saWNlc3Ry

[timothy42b]

Most of the public have little idea how good buskers are (or how bad they are). They do not know that they do not know! I do remember reading an experiment the world famous violinist Joshua Bell did in New York. He played in a subway station for 45 minutes and only collected $32 (using a multi million dollar violin mind you), and that was during peak hour! Here's the story:

https://www.snopes.com/music/artists/bell.asp


For me anyway, this confirms that most people are often oblivious to the quality of street performers, and I think this extends to whether they pay attention to them or not!

This story is often used to claim bad taste on the part of the general public.

What it actually shows is how lowsy a busker Joshua Bell is.  His talents as a concert soloist do not apply to busking, and he was apparently too arrogant to understand this. 

[Bob]

Fortunately with piano if you insult the 'on the street' teacher, that teacher will have much more difficulty beating you with the instrument.

[ask_why]

Not sure I agree with the argument that piano teachers don't deserve what they charge, but I do feel like a lot of talented kids could have their potential neglected simply because of the cost.

I'm not at all qualified to be giving kids lessons (and I don't even like kids that much), but I've recently started to consider volunteering to teach local kids who can't afford lessons, or charging something like $10/hour at most -- the same I'd earn if I got a part-time job somewhere like Best Buy .  Despite my lack of sufficient formal training, I can't help but think that some instruction would at least beat no instruction at all... finding kids who actually want to take lessons AND are needy enough that they can't afford regular ones would probably be pretty difficult though.

[Bob]

There's the cost of the intstrument and materials. 

And if you start giving stuff away, some people still wouldn't appreciate it.  And free could mean it's worthless too to some people, just driving in the lack of appreciation even more. 

A teacher just has to set standards and find where people will filter into things.  After they have enough students, then they can start to tweak things more how they really want them if they want things improved for themselves.

[ask_why]

There's the cost of the intstrument and materials.

I'm guessing every pianist would have a piano regardless of whether or not they're teaching    A lot of good materials can be obtained online for free these days... not necessarily the best, but good nonetheless.

And if you start giving stuff away, some people still wouldn't appreciate it.  And free could mean it's worthless too to some people, just driving in the lack of appreciation even more.

True, a lot of kids don't appreciate anything regardless of what it might have cost, and removing the monetary burden from their parents might just reinforce that attitude.  That sill doesn't mean there aren't kids who are deserving and would appreciate it though, just might take some looking to find them lol

[pianissimo123]

Clariano,
 I would say I agree with you totally in that- yes that seems like the worst article I have ever read about this. When I was skimming through it(it's all I could really do to prevent myself from becoming enraged about it) I just kept thinking ' You're Joking, Right?'  That woman seemed so unreservedly selfish and biased. I do not see what her deal is exactly. Looks like someone has a chip on her shoulder. And to top it off, others were quite obviously not thouroughly impressed with her work , as they managed to give her glorious article a whopping 1.5 out of 5 stars if that.
Oh well. But really. Some people do not understand the dedication and work that goes into the study of music, or the teaching of it. I guess it just boils down to real priorities. For some serious musicians it seems that music is our food. We just love it so much. And we do not drag people down with our negative views of others , say for example ,ones who don't want to waste their money on their kids and desire to go get fancy hair-do's instead  . Naw . Just kiddin.   But seriously to all of you. I liked all your opinions. I just had to tell you that I loved the picture of the hobo. That really made a point!

*A fellow music lover~

[sonatainfsharp]

I stopped reading when I got to "Play Dough (though I hate the stuff)". Then I skipped down to where she said, in CAPS, "a dollar a minute" and I thought, "wow, that's cheap compared to what some students are paying me." 

She sure is bitter about something--probably from having a piano teacher who hit her with a ruler when she was 4...

[Bob]

Be careful about taking lessons from someone on the street.  It's important to realize....


Sometimes you have to pay for these "street lessons" up front.




"You want what?    I look like a piano teacher to you, do I?"



... and you don't actually ever get the lesson. 

... and the lesson costs "how much ya got."

But you come out tougher in the end.  I think.  Maybe.

.... And you don't even have to inquire about lessons in some places.  It's weird like that.  Some kind of art community or something. 


*Bob decides to bring some Saltines or Ritz or something since that guy didn't seem to be in a good mood and Bob couldn't tell if he was offering food.*