Moonlight sonata, 3rd movement

[dlipatti]

I've just started learning this piece, and will probably have a lot of questions on technicalities and performance tips, so I thought I should just start this thread and seek some advice from those of you who have played this before.

First off, what fingering would you use on the octave trills? And should the ornamentations be played on the beat with the left-hand, or before?

Feel free to discuss anything about the entire sonata here, I really could use any kind of help.

[faris]

waw..
i just started 1st mvt for this piece one year ago, n still uncapable play this one,, hahahha

[birba]

ornaments on the beat with the left hand.
The trills.  I wish I could say I play them with my 4th and 5th fingers...!  I'm pretty sure there are lots of pianists who can.  I do a simple turn: 4-5-4-3-4-5.  If you play it at the right speed, that's really all you have time for!

[dlipatti]

Thanks for the replies.

I sense I'm a little confused about this particular passage (measures 30 and 32? I think) and how I should connect the octave trill with the ornament of the following octave. I've already searched the internet without being able to find anything of help.

Take measure 30: shouldn't I start the trill with the 4th (alternatively 5th) finger on B, then continue with the 3rd (or 4th) on A-sharp, and repeat twice? I always thought the trill meant alternating between two notes, starting with the note immediately above the written one.

[birba]

That would be the best alternative to what I offered.  Begin on the b with the 5th finger and play twice b-a# twice before resolving with the g#-a#.  I would never be able to trill with my 4th and 5th fingers at that speed.  So I use my 3rd and 5th fingers.
I'll go on playing my simple turn, however!

[birba]

I'm assuming your pen-name refers to that inimitable pianist Dinu Lipatti? 

[pianowolfi]

There is no time to do more than a turn, as birba said, starting from the main note, in this case A# and Fx. Fx is of course the real problem. Don't try to hold the lower octave. It won't work. Some do more than a turn, but they start earlier, at the last eighth of the previous measure.
I have listened to three examples in extreme slow motion:

Kempff: he starts somewhere around the last eighth of the previous measure and does a very fast trill, while the left hand gets "muddy".
Ashkenazy: he starts earlier and still does only a turn.
Lisitsa: does a very fast turn (almost like a cluster) on the beat.

[dlipatti]

OK, so after some consideration I've decided to go for birba's suggestion. A simple turn will be (and sound, if done correctly I suppose) sufficient at the presto agitato-speed.

And yes birba, my pen-name refers to the great Dinu Lipatti.

By the way, do you have any suggestions for good Moonlight sonata-recordings? I mostly stick to Jeno Jando's these day, which I like, but I would like to try something new.

[musicioso]

Which fingering do you guys use for the arpeggios at the very beginning? The right hanf i mean?

I cant play this piece, but those arpeggios are a very good exercise for me.

[birba]

I use the regular fingering for chords.  That is, if the interval between the top two notes is more than a major third, I use 3.  If it's a major or minor third, I use 4.  Sometimes, though, like in e-flat major, first inversion, I use 3 - even though it's a major 3rd.  Use whatever comes naturally to your hand.

[sonatainfsharp]

By the way, do you have any suggestions for good Moonlight sonata-recordings? I mostly stick to Jeno Jando's these day, which I like, but I would like to try something new.

Lisitsa has some amazing Moonlight Sonata recordings on YouTube (her own videos, by the way). There are several different ones and some are better than others. I don't have time to search for them, but one in particular comes to mind that is the best recording of the sonata I have *ever* heard--I know that isn't helpful if I can't find it, though...