Is Schubert one of the top five piano composers of all times?

[presto agitato]

There are many pianists who don't like to play his music. They say his music is nice, but it doesn't present new ideas and forms. That is not true since he "invented" the Impromptu form.

I don't share their point of view, and in fact I do think that If hadn't died so young he probably would have been the best piano compoers ever.

I'd like to know your opions on this.

Thanks.

[redbaron]

I doubt it. Not when the competition includes Beethoven, Chopin, Liszt, Brahms, Rachmaninov, Debussy and Bartok.

[birba]

I think qualifying him PIANO composer, would put him out of the competition.  I, personally, think he was one of the greatest COMPOSERS of all time - period.  And one of the most prolific, I might add.

[kelly_kelly]

There are many pianists who don't like to play his music. They say his music is nice, but it doesn't present new ideas and forms.

Who says that? Schubert's piano music is incredibly innovative (excepting perhaps the earlier stuff).

[pianist1976]

I think that an only top five ranking makes no sense. There aren't thousands of greatest composers but I'm sure that there are more than five  

Aside this, I think yes, Schubert deserves to be among the great composers although his tragically short life  

that is not true since he "invented" the Impromptu form.

In my opinion, the impromptu is not a form or, more precisely, it has no defined form (just like the fantasie and other free form works). And the first composer who wrote them was not Schubert but probably Vorisek.

Talking about new forms invented by Schubert, we have a very interesting example in his Wanderer Fantasie (cyclical form that inspired to other composers as Liszt).

[wiggityp]

The repetitive structures used so prolifically in Schubert's music definitely threw my interest off for a while. However upon playing my first Schubert piece (the ever-popular impromptu no. 3 op. 90/D. 899) I became significantly intrigued by the subtle changes within the repetitions, that, in conjunction with some thoughtful inquisitive playing (not saying mine is, necessarily, more some of the recordings I've heard) I really could got a better sense of his style and realized how exquisite he can be. I've since listened with ever increasing interest and appreciation to more of his works for piano, particularly his sonatas. Although, the smaller Moments Musicaux and the Serenade and so forth tickle me something awful as well. His sonata D. 894 has rapidly become one of my favorite pieces, Richter's outrageously superlative rendition has been continually haunting my recent listening.

And I couldn't agree more that had Schubert lived longer, there really is no telling what awesomeness would have poured forth from his pen. Nonetheless, the best of his works. that we do have, display the tempered musical serenity of a rare and curious musical persona, that can be a genuine delight to play.

I feel as though much of his music demands a level of patience (truly a virtue here) that I currently don't possess often enough to really attempt. For instance the gorgeous and terrifying Moderato which opens the D.894 sonata. However, I feel that as time goes on, my Schubert appreciation will correspondingly increase and deepen and hopefully someday I'll have the necessary artistic stamina to make a go of it.

In fact, I think Richter will really say it better than me:

I could list a ridiculous number of moments in this that resonant keenly with me, but a few of my absolute favorites (at least in this first 9 min. [make sure to check out part's II and III of this movement]) would be; 1:24; the segment starting around 3:50; and the part that begins after the chords around 6:38 (particularly the pensive and stolid wandering bass line found there). And too many more to list besides. I could see how someone could be bored by this work at first (admittedly, I was) but I don't see how someone who really listened to it couldn't be struck by at least some of it. And Richter, as most always, just knocks it out of the park.

In summation: although I can't/won't put a numbered ranking on his piano music (top five etc.) I will definitely say he should be taken as a composer of legitimately, musically challenging music, that no pianist should miss exploring.

[richterfan1]

yes, Schubert is 1 of the greatest piano composers, he WAS original, and he had hes own style!, any1 who doubt this should learn more about hes piano music , btw he was a founder of impromptus  , in them u can see hes ORIGINALITY

[brogers70]

If you mean, "did he stretch the technical possibilities of piano music beyond previous limits?", then no, he's not. But if you mean did he write subtle, deep, contradictory, ambiguous, and beautiful music for the piano, then sure, he's right up there.

[kitty on the keys]

   I am currently learning the piano part to the Flute Variations. Schubert was very clever to give the flute and pianist times to shine. Each variation features either the flute or the pianist....giving time between each one so they can 'rest'. I love his trios, Fantasy, and Sonatas the best.

Kitty on the Keys

[richterfan1]

If you mean, "did he stretch the technical possibilities of piano music beyond previous limits?", then no, he's not. But if you mean did he write subtle, deep, contradictory, ambiguous, and beautiful music for the piano, then sure, he's right up there.

totally agree, thats the real answer ...

[ch101]

beethoven
chopin
liszt
shumann
bach

[djealnla]

Schubert is a bad composer, he lacked a true mastery of form and counterpoint. Don't waste your time playing his music or listening to it.

[kelly_kelly]

Schubert is a bad composer, he lacked a true mastery of form and counterpoint. Don't waste your time playing his music or listening to it.

Alternatively, we might choose not to waste our time reading your comments and enjoy Schubert instead!

[djealnla]

Alternatively, we might choose not to waste our time reading your comments and enjoy Schubert instead!

Go ahead and enjoy Schubert's silly music, then.

[thalbergmad]

Schubert is a bad composer, he lacked a true mastery of form and counterpoint. Don't waste your time playing his music or listening to it.

This might well be true, but he had a gift of melody which appears to be missing from most of the modern shite that you seem to love

Thal

[djealnla]

This might well be true, but he had a gift of melody which appears to be missing from most of the modern shite that you seem to love

Thal

Well, I could spend my time listening to Justin Bieber, then...

[thalbergmad]

If it pleases you then yes .

Perhaps Schubert is too simple for you. You seem to prefer pieces with four hour fugues and other pointless banging from the 20th Century .

I guess it would be a boring World if we all had the same tastes.

Thal

[djealnla]

Perhaps Schubert is too simple for you.

Schubert, to my ears, lacks a good sense of drama. Some of his pieces go on for no good reason.

four hour fugues

If you know of any, then let me know, I'd love to hear such a piece.

[thalbergmad]

Schubert, to my ears, lacks a good sense of drama.

Then your brain & ears are most certainly different to mine.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Some of his pieces go on for no good reason.

Preferable to those that start for no good reason.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

If you know of any, then let me know, I'd love to hear such a piece.

Surely Snorbji wrote a 4 hour fugue??

Or was his longest just a trifle at 3 and a half.

Thal

[furtwaengler]

Schubert is and will ever be one of my favorite composers. Take a listen to the first movement of D. 887: https://www.pristineclassical.com/LargeWorks/Chamber/PACM066.php

Are you going to tell me that lacks drama?!

That's a world right there...as vast and extraordinary as the Mahler 7th.

[pianowolfi]

Schubert is sacrosanct to me.

[littletune]

I'm so stupid!  I'm always confusing the names Schubert and  Schumann!    Have no idea why! I guess just because of the "Schu"  and I was really confused about what Thal was saying until I figured it out! 
Oh and I didn't know what "sacrosanct" meant either... had to look it up  I have soooo much to learn!!!!

[pianowolfi]

Don't worry littletune, I just call him Schuby

[littletune]

Don't worry littletune, I just call him Schuby

And the other one Schumy? 

[pianowolfi]

And the other one Schumy?  

That might be problematic because everyone here would think of Michael Schumacher, the Formula 1 driver

[thalbergmad]

I'm always confusing the names Schubert and  Schumann 

Mighty big difference between those two little one.

Thal

[ted]

Form doesn't bother me one way or the other. Lyric melody poured from him in his short, impoverished, difficult life. In such abundance that, as Scholes says, in one the few sensible remarks he makes in the Oxford Companion to Music, "he gave us more beautiful music than the world will probably ever have time to know."

I wouldn't presume to rank anybody, but Schubert wrote directly from the heart and to the heart, and that's the sort of music I like.

Actually, there is one thing about Schubert which could have been a radical change. From what I have heard of his piano music, he appears to be the first who went directly from any chord to any other chord. Is this a correct observation ? Ones before him seemed to stick to set sequences and modulations but Schubert seems to leap about suddenly all over the place with respect to key and harmony.

[cygnusdei]

Schubert's piano 4-hand works fill 7 CDs! I absolutely adore the Fantasy in F minor D. 940 - so inspired, so wonderfully fulfilling. And how can one forget the Wanderer Fantasy D. 760, and the Fantasy for Violin & Piano, D. 934? I don't know if he's in the top 5 but I love Schubert!

[prongated]

Go ahead and enjoy Schubert's silly music, then.

Schubert's music propounds a certain generosity that I believe the world needs more than ever today. They indeed go on and on, embracing the audience with a certain warmth that express genuine friendship to anyone that care about such philosophy - one that cannot be rationalised. The Schubert G major linked earlier and the B-flat major trio are perfect examples in this regard.

Theodor Adorno on Schubert;

[There is a Schubert who speaks in] dialect, but it is a dialect divorced from the soil. It is the incarnation of a homeland - but not a homeland here, a remembered one...There is no path from Schubert to the perfection of a genre or to "the art of blood and earth" [Schollenkunst], only one to depest depravity and another to the still-hardly addressed reality of a free music of the transformed man and a transformed culture. In irregular waves, like a seismograph, Schubert's music has heard the news of a qualitative change in man. Tears are the fitting response; the tears of the feeblest lilac-time sentimentality, the tears of the exhausted body, no matter. In fact of Schubert's music, tears fall from the eye, without first asking leave of the soul; so unpictorial and real is it, as it enters into us. We weep without knowing why: because we are not yet as this music promises us...

Fleisher on Schubert;

The 3 RE's in Schubert: resignation, relinquishment, and redemption.

I would love to go on about this favourite composer of mine - in particular, the depth to which human beings aspire (in the romantic spirit). Do share with us then, why Schubert's music is silly.

[pianowolfi]

Do share with us then, why Schubert's music is silly.

It might sound silly to those who listen only with their ears and their intellect. To those who listen also with their hearts schubert will never cease to speak.

[pianist1976]

Some day I will play the "silly" big A major sonata and I'll be very happy playing it. (if silly means profound, moving, great or magic, of course  )

[thalbergmad]

It might sound silly to those who listen only with their ears and their intellect.

And there you have it Sir.

Abandon intellect and you will love Schubert.

Thal