and I don't want to play the piece with pain in my fingers... it doesn't give a further sense.What can I do to make my fingers stronger, and how to play whole the piece without pain in the fingers?
But I have an idea what the problem also can be... I don't think that my fingers are relaxed when I play this piece. I strain my fingers to hit the right note, and I think that's why it hurts after a while. Maybe it will be better when I've played the piece many times?David
No, if you practice it repeatedly with poor technique you will only hurt yourself more and solidify your bad habits. Pain is almost always a sign of bad technique, so you should really work on that before attempting to play difficult pieces at full tempo.Regardless of what you like or don't like, you won't be playing anything at all if you injure yourself.
@carbe: I would urge you to find a good teacher (or even another proficient pianist) who can evaluate your technique and diagnose what you might be doing wrong. (The fast part of F-I isn’t long or especially taxing, after all; if you’re having the trouble you’ve described by the midpoint, that means you’re playing for barely a minute before the pain kicks in.) It seems obvious that you need to change something you’re doing (even though you don’t presently know what that is); otherwise, I don’t foresee any improvement in the situation.
Hi again!Thank you for all advices you've giving to me. I'll try everything, but I don't agree that the best thing to do is to not play the piece. It's impossible for me to play pieces which I don't like to play, and I really like to play this piece so I'll do my best to make my technique better.I can't play the song in full tempo yet, but I can play it relatively quickly anyway, but it becomes a pain in the fingers after a while.But I have an idea what the problem also can be... I don't think that my fingers are relaxed when I play this piece. I strain my fingers to hit the right note, and I think that's why it hurts after a while. Maybe it will be better when I've played the piece many times?David
I'm not sure it is bad technique, because I've done a lot of slow practising. It may be that I press the keys too hard. I will try other things tomorrow. And of course it's bad with pain, but I would't say that it hurts. It's just tough.Hm, I'll have a performance with this piece in 20 december so I'll do what I can to practise as good as I can until then.
Hi David, of course you can practice the Chopin Impromptu (and you should, with the 20th December in mind). There's a lot of different ways to practice a piece and at the same time develop your general technique. It sounds like you are using to much effort into playing, so here's a couple of suggestions for practicing:A) While you're playing a passage very slow with either your left or right hand, see if you can focus your awareness on a specific body-part, e.g. your thumb, wrist, elbow or shoulder. Just feel how it feels in that particular body-part, and notice if something happens when going from note to note. For example, if you focus on your wrist, is it the same feeling regardless of which finger that is currently playing? Is the sensation in the wrist bigger or different when your finger reaches the keybed than directly after?To keep focus and concentration, move to another body-part, shift your hand or change your passage.B) Play the first note in a passage (one hand only). After playing it, try to hear the next tone with your inner ear as clearly as possible while focusing at the sensation in your finger-tip that is going to play that next tone. Try and imagine the sonority and pitch in that fingertip, imagine the fingertip is singing the note.Then play the note, and continue the same way with the next note/fingertip. Also, try and feel the journey your fingertip has to travel from resting on the keys to reaching the bottom of the key as clear as possible. But do that while try and feel your whole arm at the same time.--------------This is quite demanding for your concentration, but can be very fruitful for you. Good luck!
I was very lucky to have been "indoctrinated" in the "weight" touch by a student of Breithaupt.
Oh, do I ever. Just one for now. When Busoni got engaged, he walked into his class on his hands and announced it to his pupils. I can't even imagine that.
I do this everyday:I'm not sure what it does for my wrists!
Can you video yourself doing an extract?
Quite competent but you don't use your wrist at all. It should go up on the first three notes and down on the G. Also drop on the C.
But none of my teachers has told me that I really need to practise on my wrist technique and that it's a big problem. And I've played an extract of this piece for both of them.I have to ask them on next lesson.
carbe,While determination and perseverance are admirable traits, do keep in mind that we're all equally subject to the laws of nature. You can't simply will yourself to have better technique if you don't know what needs fixing or how to remedy it, and you can't fast-forward a learning curve because you "can't wait years for anything."The time frame in question may or may not literally require years, but it is what it is in any case. As with any endeavor that entails a destination and a journey, there's no magic formula or degree of willpower that can circumvent the course of time and effort that are required.I don't mean to discourage you by any means. Stay positive and do what you need to do, but be realistic.
(make sure that you're not tense, and that your shoulders, neck and back are not "tight" when you play this fast and challenging parts) you'll sure gain the desired ability to play them without getting tired.
There are a LOT of "professional" piano players and teachers who have no idea how to teach proper technique or spot bad technique (Hint: If they tell you to practice Hanon or Czerny exercises they're a very BAD teacher). Many of them have been indoctrinated by poor teachers themselves, and are now passing on those bad traits to the next generations of pianists. Compare your pinky movement to the movement of Yundi Li's pinky in his video of the same song (). Your pinky is jumping up and down as if gravity is pulling it towards the sky, while his looks as if it's always in contact with the keyboard -- even right before it plays each note. The reason for this is that he's using the force of his forearm/wrist to play the notes, whereas you are relying on the finger alone to press the key.The movements are mostly too subtle to spot in a video. A lot of times you need to either perform basic exercises (such as dropping your hand from a couple inches up to get the feeling of letting gravity play) or actually place your hand on someone's wrist while they play so you can feel the motions.
I don't feel very tense in my hand or fingers when I play, but my hand is tired after playing Fantasie Impromptu, so I'm probably very tense. I can also see on the video that I look tense.
I think you're also sitting too high. Try about 6 inches lower for the moment. Get your wrist below the back of your hand, not above it. It's also a good work-out for finger articulation.
We can often be in situations where we simply "do not know that we do not know". You might not feel tense while starting off but you do notice your energy slowly ebbing away and at the end of playing you feel tired. So the subtle tension added up in the end give you the result that you are tired. I would say the first step in changing your technique would be to identify what is causing tension in individual phrases. Once you conquer it in small passages it often has a domino effect on other parts since similar technique is asked of you.The finger itself may be tense when it strikes a note however if you have it connected to the rest of your arm it will not feel tense. This paradox is interesting to investigate, how the fingers may be firm and strong but the rest of the body relaxed. Tension extending past the knuckles is bad tension (inside/above the palm, wrist, forearm, shoulders, back), but I have found that strong fingers in passages can act to balance your entire hand the trick is not to allow the tension to pass the knuckles.What does tense feel like, you should feel your forearm when your arm is at rest and all floppy, this is the feeling you want to emulate while playing the piano (of course sometimes we diverge from the relaxed posture but always return to it just as our hand centers towards the natural Chopin hand formation). I use to test how meat was cooked by the tension caused by your thumb muscle inside your palm. Touching your index with the thumb is rare, third with the thumb is medium/rare, fourth with the thumb medium and pinky with the thumb is well done. You do notice how your muscle reacts with different tension. Generally I think 1+2 and 1+3 are acceptable tension but anything past that is unnecessary if maintained for extended periods.Learning about your own body is very important, instead of merely applying suggestions to forcefully change your technique. When you are lying in bed feel what your arm is like when it is all relaxed and not supporting any weight. At what point when your hand makes contact with the keyboard does your arm start to tense up? What does your arm look like when you play something many levels under your ability? Do you feel tense still or can you become floppy and relaxed? Why is it when more notes are added do you start to feel tension? At what point can the notes be added until tension begins? Getting to know your body in this respect can be a wonderful journey and on the way you improve your technique simply by getting to know your own two hands better.
Topic: How to play without getting tired in the fingers? 