Lang Lang and Kissin, why the hype?

[sevencircles]

I have never heard anything by these pianists that knocked me off my feet, not even from a technical standpoint and I am a big fan of flashy showpieces and encores.

Kissin was an amazing childprodigy but I am not impressed by his adult recordings. Never Heard anything by Lang Lang that I really liked, heard him play a duo with his father and I did for sure prefer his dads Erhu playing to Lang´s pianoplaying.

I have heard far from all of their recordings.though but so far nothing really impressed me.

Do you have any recordings you can recomend or do you agree that these pianists are as overrated as I think?

[keyboardclass]

All is now hype. 

[sevencircles]

All is now hype. 

True, if you mean that itīs important that the artist is sellable so to speak.

I donīt think Kissin or Lang Lang seems to have any significant starpersonality, Kissin remind me a bit about Glenn Gould when it comes to personality though   

[keyboardclass]

No.  I just like the smiley!

[richard black]

Kissin came to prominence as a child virtuoso in the mid or late 1980s. I remember hearing his first LP, of one of the Chopin concertos, recorded when he was I think 11 - John Ogdon brought it back from Moscow and gave it to a friend of mine. It's a damn fine performance for anyone, never mind a pre-teen kid. Dunno what happened after that, but I've never really heard anything of Kissin's to match it. My wife (also a pianist) and I went to hear him in London about 5 years ago and sure, he was technically superb but we were bored and disappointed.

[sevencircles]

he was technically superb but we were bored and disappointed.

Agree except that I find that his technique isnīt that amazing either. In the early nineties he was significantly better then now I think.

There are obvious reasons for the remarkable decline of Pogorelich and Ogdon for instance but in Kissinīs case I donīt really know what happened. Maybe someone else know more?

[musicioso]

When Kissin plays La Campanella, its on of the best. When je plays Chopin prelude op.28 no.24 its one of the best.

I just love that man. For me he is the best living pianist. And one of the best pianists ever.

[birba]

The best living pianist?!?!  And we're going by la campanella and a Chopin prelude?!
I think it's the classic child prodigy syndrome.

[musicioso]

The best living pianist?!?!  And we're going by la campanella and a Chopin prelude?!
I think it's the classic child prodigy syndrome.

Hahaha..ok ok, you are right i had to give some more explanation. But, remember, I have that serios injury in my right hand, so i also cant type to much, lol.

Ok, back to the point. I think it fair for me to say, Kissin is FOR ME the best living pianist. I just cant believe that a human being is able to have such brilliant technique on the piano. I also love most of his interpretations.

Ok, let me share some of his videos that i love most:

In this video, watch the last prelude, no.24, as i said. Isn' t that AMAZING?!

Of course, this is not that good as Horowitz, but still, its very good.

And this one blows me away...no words to describe it, barely can believe he can play it this way..

But, i have to correct my self; it was wrong to say he is the best living pianist in my opinion. Because i know in ART there is no such thing as THE BEST or worse etc. I had to say, I LOVE KISSIN THE MOST.

[m1469]

I actually like them both and appreciate them both for what they are, and there are particular things that I appreciate and respect about each of them.  They represent to the world an icon of what it means to be a concert pianist --almost like a kind of recipe-- and in that respect, that's a lot to live with for them.  They are the type of people that boys (and probably girls, too) have been inspired by and who they think they want to be like as they grow up.  They are the type of pianists who many concert-goers can feel satisfied with having payed a fee for a ticket to watch, feeling as though between their big repertoire and fame and chops that there are still legendary players in the world.  There's a place for that.  Ultimately, I think of that as a kind of artistic layer in the world and for many reasons is probably difficult to break out of.  

I think that being a profound artist for life means that we constantly grow out of/beyond ourselves and even risk departing from personal trademarks which have potentially defined us to the world.  For example, who would be Lang Lang be if he didn't have the kind of physical "expression" at the piano he is famous for?  Idiosyncracies can demand recognition as well as bring about artistic imprisonment.  What may have felt like an artistic risk initially can become an artistic barrier once accepted.  Ultimately, I think there is more to being unique, authentic, or 'individual' than peculiarities, but that's something that every individual must come to terms with in their own ways.

[opus10no2]

Kissin was always a sturdy and reliable pianist from his youth, he was always very technically accomplished for his age and his expression was of a type that, whilst not being the most spontanious, was always well thought out and had organized passion to it.

Lang Lang is also in the elite tier when it comes to talent, but I believe that the main difference between them is the fact Kissin kept his teacher for a very long time and his pianism maintained discilpine.

Lang Lang just doesn't sound the most disciplined of pianists, his musical talent is obvious but when left to his own devices...the spontaneity of his performances are more miss than hit.

He was sent around the world touring too early for his musical personality to truly form and solidify.

[54545]

I think that these pianists are overworked. They have played so many pieces so many times that they are tired of playing the instrument. All meaning in there art is lost, rather music to them has become more about money first then art second. No one had to do so many tours for so many years till the invention of airplane. Even Liszt took breaks from concerts and got to be himself for a while and avoid the piano.

I don't think modern pianists have the same luxury the old school pianists had. The best recordings I've heard that had their own personality were pianists born before 1920. Youtube has many videos/recordings of these pianists.

My favorite are: Sauer, pugno, friedheim, Busoni, rachmaninoff. 

I'm sure there are others but these are the ones that impressed me the most.

[furtwaengler]

I think that these pianists are overworked. They have played so many pieces so many times that they are tired of playing the instrument. All meaning in there art is lost, rather music to them has become more about money first then art second. No one had to do so many tours for so many years till the invention of airplane. Even Liszt took breaks from concerts and got to be himself for a while and avoid the piano.

I don't think modern pianists have the same luxury the old school pianists had. The best recordings I've heard that had their own personality were pianists born before 1920. Youtube has many videos/recordings of these pianists.

My favorite are: Sauer, pugno, friedheim, Busoni, rachmaninoff. 

I'm sure there are others but these are the ones that impressed me the most.

I would have stayed away from the debate of this thread, except I must say it is safe to think both Lang Lang and Kissin really do enjoy playing the piano, and probably their jobs are dream jobs both because they can do it and they have the opportunity to do it, and regardless of what we might think of their artistry, there are millions of people who love them and to these people they are spokesmen introducing warhorses of classical music. As I stated in another thread sometime ago, every live performance of Beethoven's Appassionata is a first hearing for somebody, and it's amazing that today there is still access to witness such profound discoveries. Moreover, I can go though the repertoire, be it piano, or be it the great symphonies, and I observe that the first recordings of these works I heard rarely ever end up being my favorite performances of the works after I know them more intimately, but they served their purpose in imprinting a great discovery of the music. So Lang Lang and Kissin do serve a purpose in giving the public access to piano music, and we should at least on that point be thankful for their contribution!

All of that, and the real reason I opened this message was to ask if your name, "54545" was the great trill from Beethoven's op. 111?

[furtwaengler]

Ok, back to the point. I think it fair for me to say, Kissin is FOR ME the best living pianist. I just cant believe that a human being is able to have such brilliant technique on the piano. I also love most of his interpretations.

So as I started to read, I completely abandoned my "I'll make no comment on this debate stance." There can be no doubt Kissin has the technique to bring off what he wishes to communicate in the pieces he chooses to play...but I'd have to reserve such a statement if I cannot hear him in the repertoire Pierre-Laurent Aimard plays, the repertoire Nicholas Hodges plays, Marc-Andre Hamelin plays, Christopher Taylor...even Daniel Barenboim, etc.!

[54545]

The 54545 is are the first two digits of my student I.D from college. I still stand by my statement about Lang-Lang and Kissin being bored. I speak from experience, only not from music but academics. In any case having to much of one thing leads to mental breakdown at some point in time. Every person needs a break from what they are doing. Why do you think Horowitz retired so many times? Or why did Van Cliburn hide from the public. Everyone needs to rest their minds.

[sevencircles]

Hahaha..ok ok, you are right i had to give some more explanation. But, remember, I have that serios injury in my right hand, so i also cant type to much, lol.

Ok, back to the point. I think it fair for me to say, Kissin is FOR ME the best living pianist. I just cant believe that a human being is able to have such brilliant technique on the piano. I also love most of his interpretations.

Ok, let me share some of his videos that i love most:

In this video, watch the last prelude, no.24, as i said. Isn' t that AMAZING?!

Of course, this is not that good as Horowitz, but still, its very good.

And this one blows me away...no words to describe it, barely can believe he can play it this way..

But, i have to correct my self; it was wrong to say he is the best living pianist in my opinion. Because i know in ART there is no such thing as THE BEST or worse etc. I had to say, I LOVE KISSIN THE MOST.

checked all the clips and he plays well of course but among living pianists I would rather listen to Radu Lupu, Zimmerman, Argerich, Pogorelich (like he played 15 years ago at least) and Volodos etc.

Kissin hasnīt got that little extra something I think. Not yet at least.

[daniloperusina]

The hype?
With Kissin it's the hair, with Lang Lang it's the karate. :-)
It's also about humans as social beings. If one million people like them, then another million people will find that fact really interesting. Pop music, popular music...

popular = suitable to the majority [..] as [..] adapted to or indicative of the understanding and taste of the majority
(from Webster's..)

Objectively speaking they are good, or even great, pianists, but equally objectively speaking, they are not not so great, or even good, musicians...

[daniloperusina]

And I don't mean to be offensive to you, op10n2, but Lang Lang in the elite tier of talent?? Talent for what? For being a circus-monkey, maybe. And it's fairly obvious when looking closely at both of them that Lang Lang has a much more "disciplined technique" than Kissin. Technique as in the capability to again and again perform live with clean articulation, minimal amount of wrong notes etc. In this respect he is more "reliable", from a purely note-by-note fashion, than the much more "volcanic" Kissin.

And these ideas about having a rest, well, surely that is very individual. I mean, look at Rubinstein...
And Horowitz wasn't taking a holiday (for twelve years), he went into a depression. That's not the same as needing a rest. He wasn't planning on ever giving concerts again.

[fleetfingers]

I am going to see Lang Lang in concert this week.   

I have seen/heard him on youtube - but not much. I am going to the concert completely open-minded, with no feelings for or against him. Perhaps, I'll return to this thread and add my two cents once I've gone.

[lelle]

Agree except that I find that his technique isnīt that amazing either. In the early nineties he was significantly better then now I think.

There are obvious reasons for the remarkable decline of Pogorelich and Ogdon for instance but in Kissinīs case I donīt really know what happened. Maybe someone else know more?

Sorry for straying slightly off-topic, but what are the obvious reasons for the remarkable decline of Pogorelich and Ogdon?

I've heard a lot about Ogdon and Pogerelich being great but whenever I've listened to them they've just been playing the pieces.. wrong.

[sevencircles]

Sorry for straying slightly off-topic, but what are the obvious reasons for the remarkable decline of Pogorelich and Ogdon?

I've heard a lot about Ogdon and Pogerelich being great but whenever I've listened to them they've just been playing the pieces.. wrong.

Ogdon had a serious mental breakdown in 1973 and he never really recovered even though he did many performances and recordings. he propably suffered from schizophrenia and had to take medication that affected his motorics.

Pogoīs wife died in 1996 after that he had a mental collapse and sold his Steinway. He didnīt touch a piano for a long time and worked with jewelry design instead. Many of his recent performances have been disasters where he played everything so slowly that you couldnīt possible take him seriously.

 

[pbryld]

IMO pianists like Berezovsky and Valentina Lisitsa are far superioer to what I've heard by Kissin and Lang Lang.

I especially hate Kissin's Rage Over a Lost Penny by Beethoven and Lang Lang's interpretation of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 (Maksim Mrvica plays it the best)

Note: Just watched Lang Lang again. I didn't even remember it to be so bad, it almost makes me angry. He butchered Liszt.

[pianist1976]

Many of his recent performances have been disasters where he played everything so slowly that you couldnīt possible take him seriously.

True. A quick tour on recent pirate audience recordings (many available through Youtube and P2P networks) shows that Pogorelich is today a caricature of himself. He is taking to a (in my opinion ridiculous) extreme the eccentricities that were part of his personal brand 20-30 years ago.

[fleetfingers]

hate Kissin's Rage Over a Lost Penny by Beethoven and Lang Lang's interpretation of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsody no. 2 (Maksim Mrvica plays it the best)

Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 is one of the few youtube videos of Lang Lang that I've watched, and his interpretation really is terrible.

[patuks]

There never was any really 'good' pianist after the Lisztjavascript:void(0);...i bet am a much better pianist than Lang Lang but there ain't any hype around me.javascript:void(0);..i guess its time i unleashed my recordings...javascript:void(0);

[retrouvailles]

Kissin has all of Glenn Gould's eccentricity without the genius and innovation. Lang Lang is basically a pop star who plays classical piano. He's better off playing stuff like new age or showtunes rather than classical music. He's an absolutely classless, terrible artist who needs to switch career focuses.

[ch101]

the only pieces i like from the two of them:
kissin-liszt's sonata in b minor (which is absolutely charming)
lang lang-tchaikovsky's piano concerto no.1 (and it is not my favourite performance.
anything else that came from them sound like DUNG DUNG DUNG DUNG

[jimbo320]

I don't listen to Lang Lang since he played a communist ballad which the lyrics tell of the satanic U.S. at the Whitehouse...

[lelle]

I don't listen to Lang Lang since he played a communist ballad which the lyrics tell of the satanic U.S. at the Whitehouse...

wait what I don't even

[gyzzzmo]

Lang Lang only is a hype cause he's Chinese, and therefor 1,2b people like him.

Kissin is a very good pianist and with his fluffy head easy to sell.

[ongaku_oniko]

uhh... no. Chinese musicians don't like lang lang at all. Because they think they're as good as lang lang but didn't become famous.


Li Yun Di on the other hand.... PURE TALENT!

But you guys shouldn't be so hard on lang lang and kissin. Even if they're not the, say top 5 living pianists, they're still amazing at what they do. And IMO lang lang has a great personality.

[pianisten1989]

IMO pianists like Berezovsky and Valentina Lisitsa are far superioer to what I've heard by Kissin and Lang Lang.

(Maksim Mrvica plays it the best)

You completely lost all my respect. Even though this is the only post I've seen from you...

Seriously, Maksim?! And yeah, Berezovsky always fills every note with great musicality, and so does Lisitsa!!!! OMG I LUV THEM SO MUCH!!!!

[landru]

Kissin has all of Glenn Gould's eccentricity without the genius and innovation. Lang Lang is basically a pop star who plays classical piano. He's better off playing stuff like new age or showtunes rather than classical music. He's an absolutely classless, terrible artist who needs to switch career focuses.

This reminds me, has anyone done the research on whether Liberace's death date and Lang Lang's birth date are close together? If so, that would make me a firm believer in reincarnation.

[thompson_321]

I have never heard anything by these pianists that knocked me off my feet, not even from a technical standpoint and I am a big fan of flashy showpieces and encores.

Kissin was an amazing childprodigy but I am not impressed by his adult recordings. Never Heard anything by Lang Lang that I really liked, heard him play a duo with his father and I did for sure prefer his dads Erhu playing to Langīs pianoplaying.

I have heard far from all of their recordings.though but so far nothing really impressed me.

Do you have any recordings you can recomend or do you agree that these pianists are as overrated as I think?

They're all fingers and no soul to me.

[nataliethepianist]

I enjoy some of Kissin's performances, like Liebestraum No. 3 (One of my favorite pieces). I have to agree that there is a huge hype for Lang Lang. I have not found a single recording I like of his! I feel he could be a very great pianist if he stopped worrying about how he looked and making sure people knew he was feeling the music by making facial expressions and worried about the interpretation itself!

[ethure]

He was sent around the world touring too early for his musical personality to truly form and solidify.

it's not he was sent, it's the way he picked! that show-man together with his tiger dad, diving into the world of fame. music and piano is only the tool.

[richard black]

Funny this thread should have been revived today - I just got home and my wife greeted me by saying I had just missed Lang Lang on the radio, playing a Chopin Nocturne very beautifully. My wife is a pianist and _incredibly_ hard to please, so I surmise that Mr LL is not without lyrical talent...

[dcstudio]

to all of you that aspire to be concert pianists--could you handle this level of criticism about your playing? better get used to it or you are really going to have a painful career--that is if you are able to have a career at all.  how could anyone be "bored" at a concert?  I am "impressed" by anyone who has the courage to do what these pianists do.  Wow, why are pianists so neurotic???   why can we not enjoy another's performance without it making us feel inadequate. I've never heard Kissin or Lang Lang say they were "bored" or "unimpressed" with another musician.  Perhaps that is why God blessed them with such success....

I am just disappointed with some of the comments here, and I apologize if I sound angry...

God Bless you!

[dcstudio]

And I don't mean to be offensive to you, op10n2, but Lang Lang in the elite tier of talent?? Talent for what? For being a circus-monkey, maybe. And it's fairly obvious when looking closely at both of them that Lang Lang has a much more "disciplined technique" than Kissin. Technique as in the capability to again and again perform live with clean articulation, minimal amount of wrong notes etc. In this respect he is more "reliable", from a purely note-by-note fashion, than the much more "volcanic" Kissin.

And these ideas about having a rest, well, surely that is very individual. I mean, look at Rubinstein...
And Horowitz wasn't taking a holiday (for twelve years), he went into a depression. That's not the same as needing a rest. He wasn't planning on ever giving concerts again.

 "circus monkey."  I'm sure you have quite a "disciplined technique" but you feel you fall short somewhere...   why do you suppose Horowitz became so depressed? could it be because he believed what people said about his abilities? It is impossible to please everyone with your playing, so stop trying...



God Bless YOU!

[mcdiddy1]

I think this video is a good discription of why Kissin is such a popular pianist.

[sevencircles]

I think this video is a good discription of why Kissin is such a popular pianist.

He seems to be a really different human being for sure. My guess would be that he has got some kind of autism, Aspergers syndrome maybe?

I believe he is a victim of overpractice actually. If you practice to much your hunger for instrument goes away.

why do you suppose Horowitz became so depressed? could it be because he believed what people said about his abilities? It is impossible to please everyone with your playing, so stop trying...

Didnīt Horowitz become depressed due to his homosexuality mostly?

[dcstudio]

wow...   Do you hear him speaking of his childhood?     Listening to that-- kinda makes me wish I didn't read so many books on  psychology. I thought I had it bad--but not anymore...geez.

Horowitz? who knows why he was depressed. 

My point is only that when you rely on performing--the smallest seed of self doubt can grow into such a giant vine of fear...

 people want to hear Kissin play and he really deserves to get paid for it-- so who am I to argue?

[keypeg]

I believe he is a victim of overpractice actually. If you practice to much your hunger for instrument goes away.

Where are you getting that from.  He is successful, talks about adrenaline. Nowhere in this clip does he talk about his hunger for the instrument going away.  He seems totally into it.

[nyiregyhazi]

He seems to be a really different human being for sure. My guess would be that he has got some kind of autism, Aspergers syndrome maybe?

I'm not sure if it's autism, but he's a horrible person to hear speak. He speaks not with what you would call "confidence" exactly, but more with the air of somebody who considers that he is without doubt the single most important person in the world. There are plenty of self-important musicians, but I've never encountered it to anything like such a level. It makes me cringe to hear him speak. There's just not a trace of humility or humanity. It's impossible to even picture him treating everyday people as friends and equals. I honestly doubt whether he has even been in standard social situations, as an ordinary person.

[sevencircles]

Where are you getting that from.  He is successful, talks about adrenaline. Nowhere in this clip does he talk about his hunger for the instrument going away.  He seems totally into it.

Amazing as child, peaked really early. propably in his early 20:s. That is subjective to some degree of course but I do believe that many people that followed him since the early eighties thought  that he would surpass any of the pianolegends  (Horowitz, Richter, Hofmann etc) as an adult. When it comes to technique in particular.

[dcstudio]

Amazing as child, peaked really early. propably in his early 20:s. That is subjective to some degree of course but I do believe that many people that followed him since the early eighties thought  that he would surpass any of the pianolegends  (Horowitz, Richter, Hofmann etc) as an adult. When it comes to technique in particular.

maybe shouldn't place em so high huh?  legend is tough to live up to. 

[mnmleung]

I went to Kissin's Liszt recital in Brisbane a few weeks ago.  He came across as a very committed performer and a great story teller.  He was generous with his encores (he played Schumann-Liszt Widmung, then Liszt / Schubert Soirees de Vienne: Valse-Caprice No.6 in Vienna, and finally Liebesträume No. 3

It was an excellent concert, and I don't think hype had anything to do with the enthusiastic applause.

I have not attended a Lang Lang concert so I cannot comment.

[punkpianist360]

Okay, I am tired of all the jealous assholes attacking these two, saying that they are too technical this, too technical that, no emotion there, no emotion over there.  Get it through your damn thick skulls that these two, TALENTED individuals became famous is because they worked hard to get there.  Just possessing some gift and not working won't get you to Carnegie Hall alone, that's why most of the pianists you speak of the average person will be like "who the hell is he?"   

So, do everyone a favor and please leave Lang Land and Kissin alone, they deserve everything they have thus far, and whatever they will get.   

Why do you think Lang Lang is popular?  He showed his love for the art and people picked up on it.  No exceptions.  Every artist has lovers and haters, known fact. 


In retrospect, leave these two people the hell alone, and instead of sitting on your ass in front of the computer, sit in front of the piano.

You can reply to this if you want, but I've said all I had to say, and will stand by it.

[nyiregyhazi]

Okay, I am tired of all the jealous assholes attacking these two, saying that they are too technical this, too technical that, no emotion there, no emotion over there.  Get it through your damn thick skulls that these two, TALENTED individuals became famous is because they worked hard to get there.  Just possessing some gift and not working won't get you to Carnegie Hall alone, that's why most of the pianists you speak of the average person will be like "who the hell is he?"   

There are plenty of others who also worked hard, some better some worse. Listen to Frederic Meinders on youtube. There's a real great pianist- regardless of whether he is famous. Also Marek Drewnowski playing Chopin Waltzes. There are pianists in a whole different calibre to those two, who are sadly unheard of. If people are "bitter" about Kissin and Lang Lang, so they should be, if you ask me. It's a tragedy that some of the worlds truly great pianists are unheard of, while those two grab the spotlight.

[fleetfingers]

I went to Kissin's Liszt recital in Brisbane a few weeks ago.  He came across as a very committed performer and a great story teller.  He was generous with his encores (he played Schumann-Liszt Widmung, then Liszt / Schubert Soirees de Vienne: Valse-Caprice No.6 in Vienna, and finally Liebesträume No. 3

It was an excellent concert, and I don't think hype had anything to do with the enthusiastic applause.

I have not attended a Lang Lang concert so I cannot comment.

I attended a Lang Lang concert earlier this year and loved it. His playing is flashy and technically amazing, but it is also sensitive and musical. In addition, he came across to me as a classy gentleman with an impressive stage presence. Haha, he was not as flamboyant as I was expecting. While he moved his arms and elbows in an artistically flowing manner, his facial expressions and other movements were minimal. He played a Bach Partita, Schubert Sonata and the entire set of Chopin Opus 25.

I was excited when he played Chopin Op. 10 No. 5 as an encore. Earlier, I had been talking to the person next to me at the concert and had mentioned that I was working on that piece. She was not a pianist and was unfamiliar with the etude, so when Lang Lang began, I excitedly leaned over and said, "This is the one I'm learning!" When it was over, there was a loud applause, and she asked me in amazement, "You can play that???" I laughed and said, "Well...not like that!" I've heard many versions of that etude, but hearing it live from someone of world-class talent was . . . magical; as cheesy at it sounds, it's true. Anyway, I personally think that people are too hard on Lang Lang. He is an excellent pianist, in my opinion; at least, judging from the concert I attended.