learning scarlatti

[minimalist]

Hi everyone, this is my first post so be gentle!
I just decided to learn D scarlattis F minor Sonata K466.
Here's a video of horowitz playing it:

Well guess what I'm having trouble with the triplets in the right hand. They've also got appogiaturas. What's the best way to get it right? Should I learn the triplets against the quaver left hand without the grace notes? Or will that cause trouble further along...
It's such a simple piece, I'm beginning to think it's deceptively difficult (maybe I'm just not good enough!)... any tips relating to this specific piece would be much appreciated.
Thanks!
T

[landru]

Scarlatti and Bach can be great for the beginning pianist because sometimes their pieces can sound great even at the slow tempos beginners have to play them at!

As far as the triplets/appogiatura issues - yes, you are right, you need to nail down getting the triplets correct against the quaver. I've had miserable experiences myself trying to get ornaments down when the underlying rhythms between the hands aren't mastered.

Practicing separate hands is also a good idea and when trying to get the triplets correct, use a metronome for the quavers, dividing the beat into three until it is second nature. You'll get there - I did!

[minimalist]

Scarlatti and Bach can be great for the beginning pianist because sometimes their pieces can sound great even at the slow tempos beginners have to play them at!

Yes that's partly why I chose to learn it-- it doesn't necessarily need to be 'virtuosically' fast; beautiful nonetheless.

As far as the triplets/appogiatura issues - yes, you are right, you need to nail down getting the triplets correct against the quaver. I've had miserable experiences myself trying to get ornaments down when the underlying rhythms between the hands aren't mastered.

Practicing separate hands is also a good idea and when trying to get the triplets correct, use a metronome for the quavers, dividing the beat into three until it is second nature. You'll get there - I did!

But i've decided to take 'half' of your advice-- upon reflection and a bit of practice tonight, I think that one cannot separate the ornaments in this piece from the melodic line itself; they are the one and the same. The right hand melody is very _gestural_, literally, in that the sonic gesture is a reflection of the physical gesture inherent in performing the melody with appogiaturas, so I have to get that right. Of course I need to maintain rhythmic accuracy by separating the left and right hands, which is what I'm up to now-- just get each hand right in itself first while hearing the other hand in my mind. So patience is my companion at the moment.
Thanks for your encouragement. I'll post any discoveries I make as I venture further.
T

[minimalist]

Well it's been a  month since I started this piece (D Scarlatti K466 F minor Sonata), but I've been away on holiday, so not much progress.
However- if anyone can give me advice on how to execute the various trills & mordants,  I'd be very grateful. The Horowitz video I posted is probably not the best guide to properly learning to execute the trills, so I thought I'd ask here.
There aren't that many in the piece-- bars 27 (trill) 30, 34 (mordant), 36 (trill). Once I know these I can get the rest. Does anyone know if  there's a difference between the trill in b 27 and 36?
Any advice gratefully appreciated in advance!
T

[music32]

The good news with the triplet is that it basically comes on the beat against the bass, so you don't have to be concerned with 2 against 3 relationships between the hands. I like your idea of stripping the figure of the grace note as a preliminary. That would be my personal approach. (I recorded this sonata on my first album, A Musical Journey, because I fell in love with Horowitz's playing model) Once you have a consciousness of the principle notes in the melody than add the grace note.. which of course should not upstage the triplet. It is subordinate to.
If possible see if you can block out harmonies against the melody.

Hope some of this helps.
https://arioso7.wordpress.com/2011/01/07/piano-instruction-second-movement-mozart-sonata-in-c-major-k-545-video/

[minimalist]

The good news with the triplet is that it basically comes on the beat against the bass, so you don't have to be concerned with 2 against 3 relationships between the hands.

Hi music32-- I don't understand what you mean; the bass has straight quavers while the right hand is triplet quavers for much of the melody, so the 2 against 3 is actually a particular feature of this piece, with the metric complexity compounded by the appogiaturas in the triplets.

Thanks for the link-- yes, having an intimate understanding of the harmonic flow of a piece is vital to learning (makes it more efficient) and execution (understanding and interpreting composers intentions).
T