liebestraum-with metronome--

[idreamofpiano]

[omar_roy]

Good, you took out the metronome.

Now try to stay in time with it.

[idreamofpiano]

nice....could u play it with the metro? so i could see an example. it's obvious that the metro and i do not get along well....where did i get off? @ the third measure?

[pianisten1989]

okay look. Do you have a teacher? Do you know how to write and read rhythm? Do a mark on every note where the metronome is going to beep, and then follow that mark. And do the right rhythm! It's all in the music!

[pianowolfi]

Also in music there is something called the basics. I would suggest to you to learn them.

[fleetfingers]

I am not much of a metronome user and I have only sightread through the first page or so of Liebestraum, so someone might correct me if I'm wrong. My inclination would be to play the Cs in the first measure when the metronome clicks. So, play middle C on a click, and the next click play high C. Next would be middle C, then high C again. Follow that pattern, keeping the notes in between even. As you do that, try to feel the beat with your body and think about the flow of the music. You eventually have to get rid of the metronome, so listen to and feel what you're doing.

As someone mentioned in your other thread, listen to recordings of this piece. You could even try playing along with them.

[pianisten1989]

nice....could u play it with the metro? so i could see an example. it's obvious that the metro and i do not get along well....where did i get off? @ the third measure?

"I'm too advanced for teachers"
No, you are not.

[stevebob]

I am not much of a metronome user and I have only sightread through the first page or so of Liebestraum, so someone might correct me if I'm wrong. My inclination would be to play the Cs in the first measure when the metronome clicks. So, play middle C on a click, and the next click play high C. Next would be middle C, then high C again. Follow that pattern, keeping the notes in between even. As you do that, try to feel the beat with your body and think about the flow of the music. You eventually have to get rid of the metronome, so listen to and feel what you're doing.

The rhythmic scheme you suggest would comprise four beats per measure, which is incorrect for a piece written in 6/4.  Each middle C is a primary beat and should coincide with a click of the metronome, but not the ones an octave higher.

[fleetfingers]

Yeah, you are right. Sorry, I shouldn't have given advice about a piece I have not studied myself. I just wanted to point out that it helps to know which notes will coincide with the metronome.

In my defense , counting with four beats per measure does work (in keeping an even tempo), but then I guess the notes would be triplets and not eighth notes? For some reason, that is always how I heard it in my head (with those high Cs being stressed). Oh, well. Thanks for setting me straight. 

[demimondegirl]

"I'm too advanced for teachers"
No, you are not.

Both threads, huh? Do you think she does not read them both? Or you just want to fossilize your wit for posterity? Hey, there's a third! Jump on it quick before someone beats you to it!

[pianisten1989]

"fossilize your wit for posterity"
Who the hell writes that?
And yeah, I'm thinking about a third post.
It will probably be a pretentious poem about the light from the moon, with 1000s of long words, and then I'll write her a piece about it (Which I will add here on pianostreet, called "The glazing of oakum of a former waldgravine").

Then, I'm going to tell her all this deep piano stuff:
"You have to feel the piece to understand it"
"Play with warmer tone"
"The piece is like a red line, not a blue"

As finale, I will tell her a funny anecdote about myself, perfectly describing the piece for her.

[omar_roy]

"fossilize your wit for posterity"
Who the hell writes that?
And yeah, I'm thinking about a third post.
It will probably be a pretentious poem about the light from the moon, with 1000s of long words, and then I'll write her a piece about it (Which I will add here on pianostreet, called "The glazing of oakum of a former waldgravine").

Then, I'm going to tell her all this deep piano stuff:
"You have to feel the piece to understand it"
"Play with warmer tone"
"The piece is like a red line, not a blue"

As finale, I will tell her a funny anecdote about myself, perfectly describing the piece for her.

Do you know what it feels like to have Orangina spray out of your nose?

Because I do now.  Biggest laugh I've had all day.

[demimondegirl]

Yes, well, of course you're right.

But it got a me few responses, a talent I'd feared I'd lost after my own posts were met with crickets! The joys of pseudonyms.

Demimondegirl is just a silly act, the real me is staid and boring as anyone here... Still, I'd like to be more like her in real life! Her aggressive, silly pretension is a lot more fun than the monotonous "blurp, blurp, blurp" I hear everyday, and which I often find myself repeating.

(On this site, "metronome" could be substituted for "blurp")

Its like you're terrified to say anything that might be perceived as childish or obnoxious, or impulsive. I can understand the fear in real life, but why here? Why on this site, when you can say anything without fear of reprisal, do you say nothing but what can be found, better phrased, in a book? That's not really how you think, right? You know, "like a book, but you might as well read the book, 'cause it's better written?" Have you literally no childishness left? If so, unless you play like Richter, or teach like Lhevinne, and no one here does even close to either, why are you taking up bandwidth with hundreds and hundreds of farts? It's not your job to be a giant, but why parrot a parrot, who parrots another parrot who once belonged to Chopin?

I mean, I'm happy to play the jester once in a while, but c'mon!

[stevebob]

I don't know anything about parroting parrots, but I think the comparison of forum posts to "farts" is misplaced and offensive.  Furthermore, one doesn't need to be a Richter or Lhevinne to justify "taking up bandwidth" or to make positive contributions in a medium like this one.

Encountering praise for the ability to say childish, obnoxious or impulsive things behind a cloak of anonymity is startling to me!  It's a behavior I would equate with trolling in both reason and purpose.

[demimondegirl]

1. I don't know anything about parroting parrots

2. I think the comparison of forum posts to "farts" is misplaced and offensive. 

3. Furthermore, one doesn't need to be a Richter or Lhevinne to justify "taking up bandwidth" or to make positive contributions in a medium like this one.

4. Encountering praise for the ability to say childish, obnoxious or impulsive things behind a cloak of anonymity is startling to me!  It's a behavior I would equate with trolling in both reason and purpose.

I don't know you, and can only go by what you post. Of course you are intelligent, and a great pianist, but what you and the others have actually contributed this youngster in terms of concrete advice is identical to a game of generational "telephone." In this game, one child in a circle whispers a message to his neighbor, who follows suit, until the last whisper it back to the first. The joy of this game is laughing about how the message has changed! But even if you repeat verbatim what your teacher taught you, which is verbatim what its original source (and of course it is) there is more to be found in heaven and earth than is in any teaching. An effective teacher is not a placard, but active, and flexible enough to adapt their style when the student is bored or intimidated by the tried and true methods. A parrot is as a parrot does. I admit the possibility that you are not one, sure as I inductively admit that there may come a time when I drop a ball and it does not plop to the earth. It's unlikely and unprecedented, as is a novel, interesting teaching point from you (I am not speaking of your other posts). But it's a reasonable assumption it will never happen, enough so that I would be a fool to hold my breath.

2. I don't know what to say. "He who denied it, supplied it?"

3. Of course, absolutely. It would be insane to think that only giants had anything to say. As soon as someone does make a positive contribution, I will retract it.

4. I'm curious on what your distinction is between "reason" and "purpose?" Maybe you meant, "practice" and "intention?" In which case...the former, yes, I suppose. I have offended. But the latter? You actually think it's intentional trolling to ask, even bluntly, that we ask a little more of our frequent posters than what pianisten provided? Especially if (and there was no reason to assume this would not happen) it would hurt her feelings?

[pianisten1989]

Seriously, how is it possible to be as pretentious as you?
Do you actually use all those words, or do you spend 4 hours looking them up before every reply?

You don't have to reply with an essay every time you post, Especially since your posts doesn't mean anything. Loads of difficult words and some sort of anecdotes about God-knows-what.
If that wasn't enough, you post your own compositions, telling US how great they are, and words like "rich harmony", and 'Even richer harmony'.

And how have you helped this girl? You, as a talent, should have an advice or two?

[demimondegirl]

Seriously, how is it possible to be as pretentious as you?

Don't despair, you're farther along than I was at your age.

First, it's good that you have found this site, if you truly aspire toward a career as a concert douchebag. Most of the world's greatest post here often. You have the affinity, but talent alone does not make a virtuoso douche.

Also, I'm humbled and flattered you would ask me on how to improve, but I'm also embarrassed. Why ask me, a fraud, a Salieri, an occasional online douche with no artistry, when there are so many Mozarts here? Granted, I'm occasionally flashy, and I've mastered the Etudes (showy words, obnoxious aggression) but you aspire to more than that, right? That's about all I can do douchebag wise, and I don't want to steer you wrong at this precious point in your career.

Because you have the raw stuff, that God-given talent that comes around once-or-twice a generation. What's more, you've got discipline and stamina! 800 original douche-isms and you're not even 22? I struggle to achieve 1 decent one a year, and they are never as good as yours, and often feel guilty afterward, and apologize for my bluntness.

But you never apologize for it. Ever. This kind of sociopathic wretchedness is...forgive me, I don't have time to look up words big enough...it's f-ing admirable.

And your douche-isms are finished as no douche-ism is ever finished! Nothing wasted, very efficient, with none of my self-concious flash, and most of call: confident. They hit every note, and some are so perfect, they work on every level. Whose to say if your douche-isms are mean, stupid, or something else! I'm constantly on my toes, enthralled at what you can do. It takes a lot of imagination to appear that ridiculous, a true zest for life to appear that dead inside. Every word seems to shout "I am a douchebag. There is not one douchebag above me, and for every one I see, I will call her on it, and prove she is nothing compared to me."

Its you, it's not an online character like the one I play. God, I'm such a fraud! I'm embarrassed even to talk to you!

I can never be what you are. God, I've tried! But I can't be what I'm not, much as my heart bleeds to be a douche.

My character may have basics down, and sometimes even perform well, but I have no talent for it, and grow tired of performing what does not come naturally. I have only been able to post 30-something douchbag auditions I felt were worthy of the masters here.

It's intimidating! Pretending to be a pretentious douche when in the presence of the real article. I live in terror of being called out as a fraud.

[stevebob]

Don't despair, you're farther along than I was at your age.

First, it's good that you have found this site, if you truly aspire toward a career as a concert douchebag. Most of the world's greatest post here often. You have the affinity, but talent alone does not make a virtuoso douche.

Also, I'm humbled and flattered you would ask me on how to improve, but I'm also embarrassed. Why ask me, a fraud, a Salieri, an occasional online douche with no artistry, when there are so many Mozarts here? Granted, I'm occasionally flashy, and I've mastered the Etudes (showy words, obnoxious aggression) but you aspire to more than that, right? That's about all I can do douchebag wise, and I don't want to steer you wrong at this precious point in your career.

Because you have the raw stuff, that God-given talent that comes around once-or-twice a generation. What's more, you've got discipline and stamina! 800 original douche-isms and you're not even 22? I struggle to achieve 1 decent one a year, and they are never as good as yours, and often feel guilty afterward, and apologize for my bluntness.

But you never apologize for it. Ever. This kind of sociopathic wretchedness is...forgive me, I don't have time to look up words big enough...it's f-ing admirable.

And your douche-isms are finished as no douche-ism is ever finished! Nothing wasted, very efficient, with none of my self-concious flash, and most of call: confident. They hit every note, and some are so perfect, they work on every level. Whose to say if your douche-isms are mean, stupid, or something else! I'm constantly on my toes, enthralled at what you can do. It takes a lot of imagination to appear that ridiculous, a true zest for life to appear that dead inside. Every word seems to shout "I am a douchebag. There is not one douchebag above me, and for every one I see, I will call her on it, and prove she is nothing compared to me."

Its you, it's not an online character like the one I play. God, I'm such a fraud! I'm embarrassed even to talk to you!

I can never be what you are. God, I've tried! But I can't be what I'm not, much as my heart bleeds to be a douche.

My character may have basics down, and sometimes even perform well, but I have no talent for it, and grow tired of performing what does not come naturally. I have only been able to post 30-something douchbag auditions I felt were worthy of the masters here.

It's intimidating! Pretending to be a pretentious douche when in the presence of the real article. I live in terror of being called out as a fraud.

[perfect_pitch]

OH FOR GOODNESSS SAKE!!!

Is this going to be another pissing contest again???

From what I can gather...

Pianisten is just throwing his opinion out into the world, and sadly enough - I whole-heartedly agree with it. Pianisten is not some jack-arse who's mouth is full of sh*t... he actually knows his stuff...

WHEREAS...

Demimondegirl seems to be someone who's trolloped through these forums at random levels of extreme boredom in the last 4 years with very little to say except for the recent couple of weeks.

So to demi girl... Pianisten may appear to be a douche - but he's a very informed and intellectual douche - which makes him more respectable than you in every way.

Can we FINALLY stop the mouthing off to each other? We don't want this to turn into another Fahl thread.

[demimondegirl]

OH FOR GOODNESSS SAKE!!!

Is this going to be another pissing contest again???

From what I can gather...

Pianisten is just throwing his opinion out into the world, and sadly enough - I whole-heartedly agree with it. Pianisten is not some jack-arse who's mouth is full of sh*t... he actually knows his stuff...

WHEREAS...

Demimondegirl seems to be someone who's trolloped through these forums at random levels of extreme boredom in the last 4 years with very little to say except for the recent couple of weeks.

So to demi girl... Pianisten may appear to be a douche - but he's a very informed and intellectual douche - which makes him more respectable than you in every way.

Can we FINALLY stop the mouthing off to each other? We don't want this to turn into another Fahl thread.

You're right. My problem is, i get upset, think of something I guess I find funny, don't question it, then react with a hasty post.

I'm sort of cringing now, rereading it, as I have with the others. But they are out there, I can't take them back, and when confronted, I feel the odd need to defend them. Also, I'm sort-of forced to respond in the same style, if only to remain consistent, so have been pigeon-holed into defending well-intended obnoxiousness with more of the same.

It's probably the same for pianisten. He said an unbelievably moronic thing, was called out on it, and has been throwing good money after bad ever since.

It's very possible that those I've been pecking away at are not in real life as dumb and unoriginal as their (and now your) posts make them appear.

But it seems likely.

They have time to think before they post, it's not a race, and phrase their points with care. These bullet-points they preach, even if true, are unconvincing at best.

It may actually they have been so over-taught, so beaten down by their teachers and peers, that they are now literally incapable of being anything but what I've asked them not to be...in which case, why judge? But it doesn't have to be that way for the young poster I have been misguidedly trying to protect...

I myself am a very soft-spoken, staid individual, and when I see hypocrisy in my life, or obtuseness, I am usually afraid to speak up.

So in this case I have taken on the persona of a silly girl, completely unafraid to censor herself...

Pianisten's at that age when it's no longer cute just to be talented, and know the capitals of the states, and be a good speller. He's old enough to die in a war and get drunk.

And unless he was drunk when he made these posts, it's time for him to peel off the diapers and think for himself. Better to risk looking like a pretentious nitwit sometimes, than to actually be one all the time.

Like pianists, our characters become what we practice most, and that becomes our destiny. He's literally practicing to be...well, you know...


Of course he's well-informed, sure as industrial dumpsters hold vast amounts of other people's trash...but intellectual? That remains to be seen.

[pianisten1989]

LOL! You're so bad at this! Mostly when i read your posts, I feel sorry for you. "Start to think on his own". Like, what?

And only a fool call himself a genius. It works with Talent as well.
And yeah, I agree with perfect_pitch. It's just annoying for everybody else.
Sooo, bye

[birba]

To get back to the original thread...
I don't even know if this Idreamofpiano is still around, but this morning, I decided to record a lesson of how to play liebestraum with metronome.  More than anything I wanted to try out my new canon recorder.  Well, here it is, idreamofpiano, for whatever it's worth!

[pianisten1989]

It doesn't work.. Or maybe only she can open it?

[demimondegirl]

LOL! You're so bad at this! Mostly when i read your posts, I feel sorry for you. "Start to think on his own". Like, what?

And only a fool call himself a genius. It works with Talent as well.
And yeah, I agree with perfect_pitch. It's just annoying for everybody else.
Sooo, bye

You're right. I don't play this part, the brat, very well. I don't believe what I write, not really. And to say the cliche "Start to think on your own" to you is no different than you saying the cliche "Do the write notes" to her. It's mundane and smug on my part, and it is unfair as for me to ask it of you as it is for you to ask it of her. Both will never happen. It's insane to play the same doomed game over and over, expecting a different result.

I will, however, take your words into account, and try to better myself. The letters I write aside, I don't at all mean for the content to be pretentious. And if that's how you receive it, hell, it must be. Sure as your posts shout to me "moron," which you are not, mine shout "I think I am a genius," which I don't.

As yo what you should think about yourself (I'm stunned you have t ask btw)? It's the same thing do.

I guess it's really important to think how people perceive us. It's not what we intend to say but what people actually hear. Whether or not you or I intended to help, we have not, and should stop playing this game.

[littletune]

To get back to the original thread...
I don't even know if this Idreamofpiano is still around, but this morning, I decided to record a lesson of how to play liebestraum with metronome.  More than anything I wanted to try out my new canon recorder.  Well, here it is, idreamofpiano, for whatever it's worth!

Birba can we see the video too?  Did you mean to set it on private or did you want to put it on unlisted? I would like to see it too!     

[pianist1976]

--- Please, let's everybody ignore the troll. S/he didn't anything that deserves our attention ----

Birba, I'd love to listen you playing (I'm sure you play very well)

[birba]

Does this work?  I'm still not very good at this stuff...

[littletune]

Yes it works now! Thanks You're cool!  I think you explained everything really great! And your new canon recorder is cool too  and your piano!     

[demimondegirl]

Birba, wonderful! I was tempted to respond, again hostile, when I realized something very important. I never admitted it to myself, but I am in awe of you guys. Everyone here, regardless of talent or progress. I admire idreamofpiano, because I recognize in her the excitement for this instrument I once had. I feared very much that she might quit, as I did, after discouragement, but that's irrational of me, and insulting to her.

I equally admire the mature artists, like those I have been contentious with, for obvious reasons. And there's no mystery how they became great: it's by doing the simple, tried and true things everyone's been prescribing her, and that I've been denigrating. There's no other way, no maglc bullet that could make her great. And it's also important that they be stated plainly, not "artfully" ad I demanded. You are not writers (I am), you are are musicians, all of you, and wonderful ones. There are no secrets to success in any field, or art. To say or think there are, as I have been doing, is to lie. To myself and others.

My feelings are too easily hurt. When I made the very first of these snarky posts, it was because I feared hers might be to. I enjoyed writing it, I found it clever. I didn't think anyone would respond to it, and no one ever responds to me.

When someone did, it was already clear the child was not hurt, but I was hurt that no one agreed with me. I remembered enjoying the sarcasm, and thought I'd try again. And again. And again! It was fun at first, but not nearly one percent of how fun it is to hear the Dream of Love played well, as you do, and as the child surely will one day if she keeps at it.

I feel strange now, both nausous and delighted. I will retire demimonde, the troll, and reintroduce myself.

Hi!
My name is Kay

[fleetfingers]

birba, that was a great lesson, and you play the piano beautifully! I always enjoy your posts and I think that you should use your Canon to upload more videos. As I watched and listened to you play, I thought about how wonderful it is that we have this kind of technology. I am sitting here on Christmas Eve Eve  , after finishing up some shopping, and I'm listening to someone across the world playing a piece I have been wanting to learn and receiving some great advice. Very cool. Thanks for sharing that! 

[birba]

Thank you Fleetfingers!  Very nice of you to take time and write that note!  I am so proud of myself that I was able to take the video, pass it on to the computer, download and pass it on to youtube, etc. etc. etc.  Something I would never have been able to do a few months ago.  It is amazing how technology can marry so well with art and become a vehicle of communication for music!

[pianist1976]

@Birba: that was just what I expected. Reading your posts I always thought that you are a person who knows very well the stuff you are talking about. Now we have the practical proof. Great explanation and very nice playing of the instrument (very good singing tone, sound levels, technique...). Congrats, my friend.

Merry Christmas!  

[birba]

Well thank you!  And Merry Christmas to you to!  Here it's raining unfortunately.  I'm convinced only the Anglo-saxons know how to celebrate the holiday...

[littletune]

See Birba everyone likes your playing!! Should post more!   (It's raining here too  it should be snowing!!! well Merry Christmas anyway!  )

[rachfan]

Hi birba,

I've always put much stock in your comments regarding my playing and of other pianists here as well, but always thought of you as a well-grounded and perceptive music critic, having never heard you play the piano before.  This was an illuminating demonstration on the use of the metronome, and I very much enjoyed your piano artistry toward the end as well.  Perhaps we might hear more of your playing in the future?

Thanks!

[birba]

Again, thanks!  Wow.  I just wanted to try out my new canon recorder.  If I get up enough nerve I will post something soon!

[omar_roy]

Birba,

As bizarre as this sounds, I'm quite jealous of your pinky and your hands in general.

Fine playing as well.  I hope you teach, because if you don't, a lot of potential students are missing out on a very good instructor.

[birba]

My god, I'm really getting embarassed here!    It's funny you should say that thing about my pinky.  When I was introduced to this "method" years ago, I made the same remark about the other students.

[idreamofpiano]

my gosh i love this site!!!!!!! thank you very much birba!!!! that's all that i needed! although it was very interesting to read everyone's comment and at awe of how interested ppl are still willing to help one person that you don't even know! sadly i didn't read this before blowing my semester jury but I have taken consideration to each one of your thoughts and prayers *demimondegirl ----i was always taught to be who you are no matter what so being politically correct for me is mutually impossible lmao---i wasn't expectin this many replies one video. I spoke with the teacher at the college to where i wish to transfer and he is going to help me with some of the basic things that I have missed out on.  I play mostly by ear, hymns, jazz, and pop. so technique was left behind, right! I realized that this piece sucked which is whYYY I posted it to a -professional site and I"m  most certainly glad that I did!-------------------------
I also am pleased to tell you that I bumped my audition date up two or three months so i wouldn't cause the judges to have cumpulsive strokes  I am also working on chopins op. 66. with metronome! I know, I know.....♥ many thanks and much appreciated!

[demimondegirl]

Thanks, dear! Here's wishing you and everyone else a happy 2011!

God bless

[emill]

Birba may have started something new here .... teaching videos.  WOW!! what a great benefit the visuals will do in the learning process.  Here is one he made for Enzo regarding the Gershwin Preludes. He plays excellently, bringing out that characteristic "jazzy groove" so evident in Gershwin pieces.     

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Kt5nHjbyPo

[idreamofpiano]

YES!!! my vision for future piano teachers! excellent teaching videos- birba! keep em coming!