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Topic: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions  (Read 7341 times)

Offline cubsfan334

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Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
on: January 09, 2011, 09:21:09 PM
What are the best editions of Rachmaninov's 2nd piano concerto?  I'm specifically looking for editions with excellent fingering suggestions (if they exist :P)
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Offline rachfan

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Re: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 03:43:19 AM
Rachmaninoff seldom wrote fingerings into his scores.  The Boosey & Hawkes is a frequently used edition.  I'm not high on Schirmer, but their edition for this concerto is quite similar to the B & H and maybe less expensive.
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline cubsfan334

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Re: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 05:16:54 AM
Do any editors suggest fingerings, then?  I'm also curious as to what Rachmaninoff himself used (I can reach a 12th), although from what you said I don't think that's out there.

Offline rachfan

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Re: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 08:09:15 PM
I think that when it comes to piano concertos, editors are less likely to add fingerings, the assumption being that any artist who can play a concerto will be able to figure out and chose his own fingerings.  During the golden age of piano, touring artists tended to keep their fingerings to themselves.  They weren't exactly trade secrets, but artists were not inclined to give them away either.  Vladamir de Pachmann even went so far as to try to conceal his fingerings when he knew that other artists were present in the recital hall.  I would guess that not much has changed today.  I doubt that fingerings come up during concerto master classes, as the emphasis there is mostly on interpretation.

Some things to think about in regards to fingerings:

Every pianist's hands are different from the next pianist's hands.  A suggested fingering that works for one, might be unsuitable for another.

When a composer himself provides a fingering, consider it very carefully.  But due to the point made above, it might be unworkable for you.  If so, disregard it and construct your own fingering.

Editors range all over the map in expertise.  Occasionally you'll find a genius like Raphael Joseffy who gave excellent possible fingerings.  Here again though, the same rule applies: If it doesn't fit your particular hand well, discard it and construct your own alternative.  There were also legions of editors hired by music publishers who were ill-qualified and paid 25 cents a page.  Those should be totally ignored.  Occasionally too, there were famous artists who produced new editions for publishers and whose suggested fingerings left other great pianists scratching their heads wondering what he was thinking!  So here again, your own common sense applies.

All of this comes back to the same point.  If you find a fingering that works, great!  If not, devise one on your own.  

If you have a scalar figure, play the major or minor scale in that key as applicable and see if you can transfer its fingering directly into the scalar passage, or at least with minor modification.  

If you have to figure out fingering for a phrase, it sometimes helps to work backward.  Go to the end of the phrase, see where the hand needs to be at that point (often finishing with the 5th finger in the RH hand taking the lift-off note), and work backward to the beginning.  The same technique can be used on figuration leading up to a climax, as another example.  Again, work it out from the end back to the beginning.

If you're starting on a black tonic key, usually start it with the second finger.  As far as the taboo of not using the thumb on a black key, it's nonsense, so ignore it.  

Sometimes the easiest way to get from one note to another is simply to slide the finger off the lower corner of a note onto the next one.  

For legato octaves, instead of using 1-5, use 1-4 or 1-3 on black keys.

In an arpeggiated figure, the decision will usually be whether to use 3 or 4.  Play it but also look at the keyboard as you try both alternatives.  Also play the major or minor arpeggio to see if there can be a direct transfer of fingering.  Decide on the 3rd or 4th finger depending on which one looks more naturally aligned for the hand taking the arpeggio.  It should also sound better.

Use only as many fingers needed to accomplish the task.  Too many fingers can make a passage overly complex and cumbersome during execution.  Keep it simple.

When working on a new piece, write in fingerings where needed, but consider them to be only tentative.  A fingering you thought would be famous might be a dud.  Also, as you practice more and you become more familiar with the score,  your hands might drift away from a tentative fingering. Stop and examine that closely.  Should it have been different?  If yes, pencil in the revised and improved fingering.  If not, get the hand back on course.

Sometimes, there can be a passage where the hands co-habitate and clash.  That might not be a fingering problem at all, but rather an issue of choreographing the hands to better accommodate one another.  For example, in close quarters lifting the RH wrist so that the LH has better access underneath the RH to play its keys.

This is not meant to capture all of the principles and practices in fingering, but instead to mention some general ideas in coping with fingering problems.  I hope it's helpful.

  
Interpreting music means exploring the promise of the potential of possibilities.

Offline richard black

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Re: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 11:18:48 PM
Unless there's some obscure old Russian edition I haven't seen, there's basically only one edition of that concerto so it doesn't matter what you buy - it'll be the same between the covers!
Instrumentalists are all wannabe singers. Discuss.

Offline gyzzzmo

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Re: Rachmaninov 2nd concerto editions
Reply #5 on: January 10, 2011, 11:30:54 PM
If youre asking this type of advice, you might not -exactly- be ready for a rachmaninov pianoconcert.
1+1=11
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