Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 Liszt/Horowitz/Bennett

[donjuan]

https://music.download.com/seanbennett/3600-8341_32-100125972.html?tag=listing#100125984

What do you think of this arrangement?  I think it is meant to sound similar to Horowitz, but this guy made changes to it and played in such a way to make it sound like crap.

I dont like it...I think it is insulting to Horowitz and Liszt.
What do you think?

donjuan

[Slade]

one things  for sure: the piano is a disaster! no one equals cziffra for me  in that rhapsody   but...  that is ridiculous! has he even heard the piece?, maybe he just has a few girls  he wants to impress next to  him.. I would have left the concert hall !

edit: i just read that this is a horowitz arrangement.. i heard a similar  arrangement by rachaminov and played by rachmaninov.. it was far more pleasent... but hail cziffra in this rhapsody lol

[donjuan]

It sounds like in the parts Horowitz made great, this guy just held down the sustain pedal and gave the piano hell.  

[Slade]

it's as musical as the stumping of a herd of buffalos !   i wonder if liszt would have approved.. that's going straight to the rubishbin

[Goldberg]

Well this one is crap of course..... ...but has anyone heard Hamelin's? He has the most heart-stopping cadenza ever.

[DarkWind]

Similar artists: Martha Argerich AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. This guy needs to be shot.

[goansongo]

I'm not familiar with many arrangements of this song.  I just know the original version that most people play.  Is the beginning supposed to be this fast?  Cuz it's kinda bugging me.

[willcowskitz]

Why is it played on a circus sounding digital piano or something?
Anyway... Horrible.  

By the way, IMO Rachmaninoff's cadenza is awful. He just couldn't write a cadenza for such a cheery piece without his idiosyncratic melancholy involved. Besides that, the cadenza is also a bit lost in choosing direction, it just goes up and down looking for the joy of the piece then crumbling back to the saddening landscapes of Rachmaninoff's Russian mind.

[Rob47]

This might be kind of entertainting if it wasnn't played on some digital type of piano. what the heck is up with that? I've noticed from messing around on those sorts of pianos when they record you it records your fast stuff alot of faster than u actually play it.....I don't konw how to say it but for example trills will sound ultra fast i've noticed.  

AAAnyway..this is kind of interesting but for the most part I really don't like it at all.  In fact I'd go as far as to say this guy is the biggest douche in the universe. How did he win all those competitioins? I can see how he was the youngest to play rach 3. when will people realize that doesn't mean anything and makes the pupil turn out like Sean Bennet.


And they say similar artists are horowitz argerich and glen gould? no.

Rob

[goansongo]

Haha, I was thinking about that too.  How did this guy win so many competitions and become so involved in piano if this is a sample of his playing?  I wouldn't go so far as to call him a douche or say that his playing sucks or anything.  It's just that he doesn't flow the song too well.  Well, at least he tried...

[steinwaymodeld]

"Similar artists
Horowitz, Martha Argerich, Glenn Gould"


This is all so hilarious and insulting.

[slambennett]

This is Sean Bennett. I would like to take a moment to thank you for your commentary, which validates what I’ve intended to achieve with my recording. For me, music is not about right notes, muted pleasant tones, or competition winning (read dull – this is why I quit entering them at 18) performances. For me, music is about eliciting emotional responses and spreading the word about my ideas, and I must say that based on your passionate feedback, that I may have been successful by my definition.  I also believe music is not about placing a composer or arranger on a pedestal – and thus I believe that making changes to the music is not something which can be deemed “good” or “bad” – only interesting or uninteresting in its attentional potency. If you’d like to listen to some (dull but clean) live recorded international competition winning performances from my past, look on Vitaminic for my recordings of Liszt Piano Concerto #1, Beethoven Appassionata, and Barber Sonata (Fugue).
.............
To answer a few of your questions, this Liszt/Horowitz/Bennett arrangement was recorded live in concert in front of 150 people in June 2002, on a Yamaha 7’ Grand Piano in Lee Hall at Wolfson College, Cambridge University in the UK for the annual concert. Two standard mics were used and fed into a small Mackie mixer but given the shape of the space and the audience, they had to be placed rather close to the piano. It was one of the worst pianos I’ve performed on ever, it was an exceptionally dry and uneven piano, with the sustaining pedal doing little unless held all the way down. The hall was very dry to add to this, so while this could be deemed a disaster, I felt that it afforded an opportunity to do something with the Rhapsody which is historically known: a sense of as much ridiculousness as possible. In its reception history, and in its cartoon renditions, this rhapsody is about extremes. FFFFF and pppppp and extreme tempos and effects were thus intentionally placed to elicit a vulgar, emotionally stirring result. The recording is as is – it has not been manipulated in tempo or dynamic range or any other way, except I cut off the applause in the mp3 version.
............
Horowitz, Gould, and Argerich are indeed similar to me in at least a few important and overarching regards. They all were/are willing to take risks and to push the envelope regarding their performances. Each has or had his/her own strengths and weaknesses, as do I. Each has faced many critics who deplore their style, just as each has faced many fans.
................
Thank you for listening and reading.

[Tash]

well i have'nt listened to the recording cos stupid dialup makes it too long to download, but in reponse to bennet's comment, i think that you should generally follow what the composer's intentions are with some personal interpretation of course, but the whole purpose in playing their pieces is to try and convey what THEY want to convey. if you want to convey your own stuff the compose your own pieces to do so. but it's like say if i painted something and it had a specific meaning, and then someone went and completely made up their own meaning to it, especially if they knew what it was about but prefered their own interpreation on it. how offended would i be?composers compose with an idea in mind, and i dont believe anyone has any right to go against that cos it's just mean.

and also i don't think anyone should go comparing themselves to great pianists.let the audience decide that

[bachmaninov]

I can't even listen to the whole thing... Whats with the detached notes at the end of almost all the phrase endings...

This is an abomination!! Oh well... im sure some people actually like it played that way... it certainly is different from anything i've heard.

[johnjwong]

to sean bennett: Have you use any technology that would record faster than what you have played therefore you result in a 6 minute version of HR2 comparing to Horowitz's 9 minute?

Theres some part that I feel is very impressive because it is so fast played.

[slambennett]

Nope -- the speed you hear is the speed I performed it (somewhere I have videos of another live performance of these to prove it)! If you are interested in my stamp on some other Horowitz transcriptions, (also on the same piano - ick!) check them out on Vitaminic.com. Thanks for listening.

[jeff]

well, to balance out the opinions here, slightly, i'd like to say that i personally found s.b.'s recordings interesting, entertaining and worth listening to. i thought that was he does in his performances makes sense musically, however erractic, unusual, and far removed it may be from the composer's style or the precise sonic ideas the composer had wished to convey.

there are an abundance of more 'normal' performances which try to capture the essence of the composer's vision available to listen to, by other pianists, so i don't think it's worth complaining about s.b.'s playing - i.e. you
aren't forced to listen to it, so why let it bother you?

i wouldn't want to play the way he plays, and i probably wouldn't want to hear other people doing the same thing as him, but did find it interesting to hear what he has done.

[donjuan]

Sean Bennett, I am the one here who first found your recording on download.com.

How did you find this forum, and how did you come across this thread?

Sorry for saying some of the stuff I did- to be honest, I didnt think you would ever read it, now, the only other question I have is this: What would Liszt say to your playing?
donjuan

[johnjwong]

Sean Bennett, I am the one here who first found your recording on download.com.

How did you find this forum, and how did you come across this thread?

Sorry for saying some of the stuff I did- to be honest, I didnt think you would ever read it, now, the only other question I have is this: What would Liszt say to your playing?
donjuan

um, don juan i found the recording way before you posted the messasge, i just didnt post it out and in fact i think many people here also find it way before you post the message ^^

[donjuan]

yeh yeh yeh you know what I mean...

donjuan

[donjuan]

Sean Bennett, I am the one here who first found your recording on download.com.

How did you find this forum, and how did you come across this thread?

Sorry for saying some of the stuff I did- to be honest, I didnt think you would ever read it, now, the only other question I have is this: What would Liszt say to your playing?
donjuan

ha!! He doesnt respond.  Probably wasnt even the guy..

[johnjwong]

ha!! He doesnt respond.  Probably wasnt even the guy..

ha, its waht i thought also, such pianist i think won't come to the forum Won't even ahve time to browse on the internet for forums and read the messages.

[slambennett]

Yes it is me, and to prove it, I'm posting a copy of this message on my website at:
https://www.seanbennett.net/foolsonpianoforum.txt
A friend forwarded me your site and postings, and I don't believe Liszt would have a problem with my arranging and changing other people's works, after all, that is how he gained his own reputation as a performer.

[donjuan]

Yes, but Liszt was actually good at it.  He respected the original composer's ideas- the Rhythm, the harmonies, etc..  One of his goals in doing all the opera transcriptions was to be able to perform them for people who lived far from opera houses, or couldn't go to see the opera for financial reasons.  The piano really was the CD player of the 19th century, and until Liszt would perform Operas for the people, they had to go home and try to play various melodies from the opera score on their own piano.

The Hungarian Rhapsody No.2 is so SO famous for it's strong Gypsy accent, dreamlike friska, and stamping paced finale.  But when YOU play it, (no offense) not a bloody thing makes sense!  I am sure Horowitz would hate it (what he did with it was AMAZING), and Liszt would walk out on the performance because he is so nauseus from the thrashy banging and blending of every harmony available on the poor instrument.

donjuan

[Rob47]

I think everything Sean Bennet says is true.  But I can't believe the piano used in this recording of the rhapsody is real.  And in a concert hall? It sounds incredibly fake in that it only reaches a certain loudness and can only go so quiet it seems.  I know alot of these decent digital pianos have the weight in them so you could in theory not make a sound. But come on, this is not a real piano you are playing on, let alone not in a concert hall.  Also Liszt probably would have liked it, in like how I liked it: you did your own thing to it, which Liszt recommneded with his rhapsodies.  So I'm sorry I called you a douche.
But I still don't like the fake piano Bennet. Get it together man come on.  (I'm trying to think of a schwarzenegger line from "Commando" to say to you because...well you know, Bennet is in commando)
Also you make too many mistakes in my opinion. And I'm not even a person who cares if stuff is note perfect.

your friend
Rob

[donjuan]

Sean Bennett, I hope you dont get the wrong idea- I highly enjoy many of your recordings at Vitaminic.com- I am just saying this particular one is questionable.

[ericlc]

Liszt was as much a revolutionary composer as he was attentive to the traditional rules of composition, so I think what others are trying to say is that artistic license doesn't simply mean doing whatever you like. It also means being true to the original form and style.

[donjuan]

Liszt was as much a revolutionary composer as he was attentive to the traditional rules of composition, so I think what others are trying to say is that artistic license doesn't simply mean doing whatever you like. It also means being true to the original form and style.

yes, EXACTLY!!! well said.  

[slambennett]

Playing music in the form and style believed to represent the time and so-called "intentions" of the composer is one ideological position a person can take about performance, but certainly not the only one. Think critically for a moment about just a few of the potential weaknesses inherent in your position. 1) We don't have recordings of Liszt, so don't know, except from second-hand accounts and letters, what he actually did. Furthermore, even if we could hear what he did, we don't know that that is what he would want others to do (even if he went so far as to *say* what he wanted, it might be a lie to protect his own branding as a musical genius). 2) The attempt to place order and rules (are you capable of clearly articulating those rules you mention? it's probably impossible because of the abstract nature of the medium) on performance in an art space highlights the power and status relationship the classical art form has wielded over the years. If one is to attempt to articulate and perform with some set of rules in mind that some critic (who probably didn't make it as a performer himself) uses to evalute a performance (and often, there is no such set of rules -ie the critic is arbitrary), one is therefore constrained from making potential advances in the art form as a result of the inability to build and try new models and approaches to performance. (Incidentally, this conformity is exactly the way that leaders and the highest members of the upper classes try to squelch revolt, change, and to control others, while going ahead with their own ideas, models, and performance modes).

What I do is not "whatever I'd like" -- I could wear a purple hat and saw on the piano whilst throwing change at the strings, but no - I try to conceptualize an idea about what a performance could be (in large part, thinking about what effect it will have cognitively and emotionally, and working backwards), and use the notes  and prior performance tapes of Horowitz as "idea points" from which I depart to fit a combination of my model and my personality. In a very real sense, the "work" is not some piece of paper or vision of a composer, rather the recording/performance and idea of what it should be itself becomes and is the "work." In this regard I consider what Horowitz did a "work" because of its recording record even though we are not sure he ever wrote it down or articulated verbally what he wanted it to sound like.

Reread my first post, and you will see exactly what my guiding model is in this particular performance. In part, the controversial response you all are engaging in is indeed part of the "work" by my conception.

On a final note (mostly to Rob47), again, it was a real (bad) piano in front of a real hall (albeit not really a concert hall acoustically) in from of real people (do you need a complete list of names? I will say it included Nobel prize winners and a Baron, Cambridge Masters and members of the Cambridge music faculty), go on vitaminic and listen to the Danse Macabre and Wedding March for audience noise to in part prove this. Have you realized yet that I'm being brutally honest and haven't yet decieved you? I'd appreciate if you'd extend me the basic courtesy of refraining from bashing and calling me a liar without being able to affront any evidence that can justify the claim. Otherwise, you run the risk of making yourself look foolish to the readers rather than actually helping your claims and arguments.

[chopinrules2005]

The friska sounds like:  

It doesn't even sound like the piece...

Granted I wish I could play it so props on that, man.

[super_ardua]

Well,  if you defy convention,  at least do it well...

[donjuan]

Well, it's too bad Liszt isnt here because he would have a few things to say about the performance.  He left clues to us in the form of dynamics markings, performance style (eg. Tempo Guisto, accelerando, pedal indications..), and if you dont, then no one will say you have successfully played Liszt's music well.  You would be better off composing stuff on your own- make up your own irractic rhythms and crazy fffff markings.  Horowitz did so many imaginative things for the piece -like you- but the difference is, you can still hear Liszt's music through it.  In your recording, I hear little more than the strings begging you to stop.

donjuan  

[Terry-Piano]

Will you guys shut up already That guy is an amazing pianist... go listen to his recordings of la campanella and others... and did you know he is the youngest performer ever of rachmaninoff's third concerto...he played it at 14 ... Well done Sean Bennett... nevermind those jealous fools

[donjuan]

Yeah, I agree- he IS an amazing pianist- I love his recording of Horowitz's transcription of Danse Macabre.  However, who cares if he is only 14 when he plays Rach3?  Age doesnt matter.  It's kind of like saying "he has the fastest recorded time in playing the minute waltz".  It has nothing to do with music.

[super_ardua]

He is an amazing pianist,  it's just that this recording wasn't very good.

[Rob47]

Ya im sorry Sean Bennet. I was a jerk. I didn't mean it to come across as bashing you.  I thought it was a clavinova or something.

your friend
Rob

[stevie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

AWESOME THREAD!!!!

ok, now i want to listen to the recording

and i agree with bennett, he was just letting off some steam

[stevie]

Yeah, I agree- he IS an amazing pianist- I love his recording of Horowitz's transcription of Danse Macabre.  However, who cares if he is only 14 when he plays Rach3?  Age doesnt matter.  It's kind of like saying "he has the fastest recorded time in playing the minute waltz".  It has nothing to do with music.

nothing to do with music, but extroadinary feats nevertheless.

[stevie]

''From his delicate handling of the most precise passages to the deliciously modern reharmonization he puts on the more clangorous sections, Bennett shows his prodigious talents''

hahahahaha, thats what ill say next time people criticise my wrong notoes - i was adding 'modern reharmonization' 

hahaha, i liked the recording alot in some p[laces, obviously it was a bit random and improvisational, but as with always, this pays off in some spots and sounds a bit crap in others.

[jehangircama]

Listen to the Ginsburg recording of this its pretty good (especially the cadenza)

[stevie]

I really don't like it at all.  In fact I'd go as far as to say this guy is the biggest douche in the universe.

hahaha, phase 1, the initial unleash

[donjuan]

its strange..... 2 years later, after learning the rhapsody myself, I like Bennett's recording much more.  However, I still hate the random improv stuff "different for the sake of being different" in the first half with the changed rhythms etc and the annoying humming in this and other recordings "whhhooooouuuuohgghghgoooooooooooooooooowhhhooooouuuuohgghghgooooooooooooooo

[gorbee natcase]

When it enters the (friska) section are you supposed to use une corda for the lighter touch and a little sustain pedaling or no une corda and aim for a lighter touch. or does this depend on the piano?

[instromp]

https://music.download.com/seanbennett/3600-8341_32-100125972.html?tag=listing#100125984

What do you think of this arrangement?  I think it is meant to sound similar to Horowitz, but this guy made changes to it and played in such a way to make it sound like crap.

I dont like it...I think it is insulting to Horowitz and Liszt.
What do you think?

donjuan

Hey Donjuan the link doesnt work any more.You think you do it again please!!!

[donjuan]

post deleted

[alejo_90]

Hey! It would be nice to have Sean Bennet on the forum ! Let's ask him to join ! lol

[emmdoubleew]

His recording is definetly not something I would listen to regularely, but it's pretty cool and original imo. It's fun to have something original once in a while.

[instromp]

I think he changed his recording; the first one he had posted was live with clapping at the end, and he was playing on a crappy-sounding "circus digital" piano, as Willcowskitz mentioned.  I have a feeling that after having this big episode here at the forum, he went and made another recording on a better piano with the innapropriate eccentricities toned down a bit.

anyways, here is the recording he has posted now:

https://music.download.com/seanbennett/3600-8277_32-100125972.html?tag=MDL_listing_song_artist

Thanks Donjuan!!

But whoa,it is way too fast !!! But that must be the way he likes to play it

[tompilk]

i dont like this version, but your other stuff sounds great.. and yes the piano sounds terrible...
Tom

[cherrysoda]

A friend forwarded me your site and postings,

Nice "friend"......