Petrouchka left hand 3rd mvt

[Rob47]

Maybe someone has some points of help

What are some excercises to help strengthen the alternating left hand fourths to thirds? Im talking in particular about having 4-2-1- on a-c-d, switching to 5-3 on g - b flat.....do u know where I mean? (whoever is reading this). I find my fifth finger in the left pretty weak and my thirds need work anyway.  What can I do to inrease the speed at which I play this passage? (bottom 1/2 of page 3 of 3rd mvt)

Please help
Rob

[Rob47]

Hi

Terribly sorry to be selfish and write my own reply to my own question so it gets to the top again, BUT...seriously i need help and I know a couple of people must've played this piece before!

But in case you haven't please consider this:

a triad with your left hand lets say C-E-G,  that you must play with 4-2-1

now then tremolo from that triad to the ?juxtaposed? third underneath, which is B and D, with 5 and 3.

Its quite tricky when you have not developed that strength/technique in your left hand!

Really all i do is for relatively short periods of time throughout the day I practice it slowly, maybe striking each chord and immediately relaxing before making the switch, and repeating back and forth. striking and relaxing  to build up stamina.

Of course the old syncopation techniques should seemingly also help in this situation...BUT IS THIS ALL?

Rob

[Nightscape]

Are you able to play the LH tremelos elsewhere in this peice?  Like at the beginning?

[Rob47]

Yes its just the bottom of the third page that gets me!!

[Rob47]

of the third mvy.   :-/

[maxy]

.... still working on Petroushka? It's not really a piano piece.

There is no secret.  Stravinsky himself admitted it was not a comfortable piece.  There are so many notes to play in these pages, no one can expect a pianist to be crystal clear all the way.  

Basically, you just don't want to destroy your left hand.
Hard to explain, but with one motion you must play many trem.  GAH! Can't explain with words! Sorry! Generate some flow.  

[Rob47]

Interesting. well it makes sense, the orchestrated version has winds playing those tremolos pretty articulate, and it is a transcription, but Gilels, for example, plays it pretty "impressionisitic?, like a blur kind of how you say.
Well, good idea and I must say I laughed out loud at your opening remark.

Rob

[shatteringpulse]

Pollini makes this piece crystal clear.  

Absolutely terrifying.

[maxy]

Indeed...  now compare with any live recording...
But yeah, with Pollini you can hear all the notes...

[Medtner]

Rob47,

I looked at the score last night for the first time and found the tremolos. Not sure which ones you're referring to.

But I found some tremolos to have five notes (like a cluster) tremolo-ing against a G and then an E in the following measure. Don't know how you do that without 6 fingers as it seems no two notes can be taken with a single finger. My suggestion at that spot was to leave out the E.

I also noticed that the tremolos were to be played at varying speeds. There is a tremolo section of two 3-note chords, but I also noticed these are to be played as 8th notes, just a few times per measure.

If these are supposed to be fast and giving you trouble, I would recommend some exercises. There is the Chopin Etude Op.25 No.6, the thirds etude, rewritten by Godowsky for the left hand (his first and quite faithful transcription). You might want to give that a try.

Looks like you need to work out the fingerings. It is possible to jump between black and white notes at high speed with the same finger--q.v. Liszt's Mazeppa, which might provide extra insight and practice towards this end.

Kolya

[arturobc]

Dear friend,

I don't know if you have them already, but look for Chopin Etudes op. 25 revised by Alfred Cortot.  There you can find lots of exercises he recommends for the different etudes.  In particular, you have to look for the Etude op. 25 # 6 (thirds).  He presents a lot of different exercises you could apply to your left hand, and the passage will then go smooth.  Anyway, don't stick to one passage, if the work doesn't go, leave it for a while, study some other difficulties and works, then come back to it, and it will go better.

Good luck.

[arturobc]

What i meant by mentioning Chopin Etudes is that the difficulty presented there will help your Petroushka.

[Rob47]

Thanks ARTUR!!(the thirds etude can be transferred to the left hand!) thanks medtner (obviously I will not play Godowsky's up to speed but it definetly helps! ) and thank you Maxy for the reminder that I am a human and shoudl only compete against myslef...not against speed demon like Gilels, Pollini, and Rob47 (just joking)

its a tricky passage alright but you have alll provided incredible ideas on whtat the heck to do with it

read the other posts i've made around this time and truly  understnad this strange enthusiasm! ( although my thanks is sincere Mednter, Maxy and arturobc)

I'm going to sleep! Molson Dry is no Heineken!

your friend
Rob47

[Rob47]

incidentally aturobc, i just realize you wrote the Alfred Cortot arrangement of the thirds etude...I will have to look into that.

Thanks!

[arturobc]

You are very welcome, Rob, and anyway, try to practice all the scales in thirds, along the most possible range of keyboard, by only using 53-42 and then only using 42-53, only with left hand, this will help you a lot.