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Topic: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?  (Read 27597 times)

Offline cardamome

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Hello,
I'm new to this forum and not a native English speaker, so I'll have to ask for some understanding!

I've been trying to learn Rachmaninoff prelude op. 23 #5  for several weeks, and my piano teacher told me that I could do it, but only by working several hours a day (which I don't have). I absolutely love this piece, though.
She suggested switching to C# minor instead. There's an audition in the end of june and she thinks I can do the latter, but that the former is too risky.

My problem is that I listened to several interpretations on YouTube, and  both pieces need speed. Is C# minor really easier ? Or is it easier only if you play it slowly -- which I honestly don't feel like doing?

Thanks for your help! I'm a bit discouraged here :-)
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Offline invictious

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 01:07:20 PM
I think Op.3 No.2 is easier than Op.23 No.5 for sure. Although, you still have several months, and since your teacher has given you the green light, and that you love this piece, you can sure go for it on the audition.

The caveat of course is that the piece is quite overplayed in auditions. If you absolutely love it and can provide a fresh interpretation, then by all means go for it.
Bach - Partita No.2
Scriabin - Etude 8/12
Debussy - L'isle Joyeuse
Liszt - Un Sospiro

Goal:
Prokofiev - Toccata

>LISTEN<

Offline overfjell

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 02:14:37 PM

My problem is that I listened to several interpretations on YouTube, and  both pieces need speed. Is C# minor really easier ? Or is it easier only if you play it slowly -- which I honestly don't feel like doing?


Which interpretations of the C sharp one have you heard? The middle section is quick, but the two outer sections are Lento, definitely not speed. I'd say both pieces are risky for an audition because they're so well known, the C Sharp one is definitely easier and if your teacher reckons you'd be better off doing that, he/she is probably right.
That being said, if you prefer the G Minor one, by all means go for it, it's supposedly one of the easier preludes by Rach, kinda worrying, I think. xD It definitely needs a lot of time and effort put into it. What is the audition for, my I ask?
Now learning:
Chopin Etude Op. 10 No. 1 in C Major
Rachmaninoff Prelude Op. 23 No. 5 in G Minor
Chopin Polonaise Op. 40 No. 2 in C Minor
Scriabin Prelude for the Left Hand Alone

Offline cardamome

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 04:50:21 PM
Thank you for your answers! I'm very happy to have found this place.

The overplayed factor is indeed a good point, although this audition is not very high-brow (In my experience, many people actually like overplayed works: I played the 1st mvt of the Tempest last year, and people did like it... so...)

My favorite interpretation is Gilel's -- I'd say "as always", but it'd be quite another topic :-)

When I say quick, I mean of course the middle part. But it's got to be reckless, doesn't it?

Offline pianovlad1996

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #4 on: March 21, 2011, 04:42:13 PM
Hello! ;D
First, I want to ask you how old are you and how much experience do you have?
Rachmaninoff is difficult. I am 15 and I played his Elegie, Prelude in C#, etude op.39 No.2, Polichinelle, Melody , Serenade, Humoresque and only now I m ready to learn the Op.23 no.5 prelude. ::) Prelude c# is easier than g minor. The jumps are difficult at prelude in g minor. You need to take a measure and play it 20 times.... Another challenge is the phrasing. I can assure you that even a 12 years old child can play only the notes... :'(  Unfortunately, you can t play the g minor prelude without playing another piece by him (Morceaux de Fantasie, Morceaux de salon etc.) because you will meet a complete new style, beautiful but difficult... ;)
Current repertoire:
Bach Toccata in E minor
Beethoven Sonata op.110
Rachmaninov Corelli Variations
Liszt Paganini Etudes No.2 and 6.
Strauss Burlesque in d minor, Brahms piano concerto No.2.

Offline jjs238

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 02:15:57 AM
Hello and welcome to this awesome piece that I love too! This is not an overplayed piece, what is overplayed is the piece played incorrectly without any personal feel to it. Trust me, if you play it and do it justice, it's not overplayed and jaws will drop. The C Sharp Minor is pretty sounding to me even with its dark tone but nothing like this beast to raise eyebrows.

I would say that it depends on how much time you can devote to the Prelude in G Minor no matter what the skill level, this one takes time just to develop the strength part alone in your arms, wrists and fingers. I myself could be considered grade 8 or up I think but that's with tons and tons of work on my part when I learned this. I was playing for 5 years when I was oh so young and heard this one, I said I was going to do this and did so in 12th grade and up to Valentina Lisitsa's touch. Many months later, more than 6, I could and it gets better with time. 15 years later now, I still work on this and improve things even more, it's like my daily warm up routine here instead of scales, haha, that's how much I like it. This piece looks easy on paper, sounds and looks extremely difficult on video but is a show stopper if performed correctly with a great sense of emotion and dynamics.

If you really think you can play like Van Cliburn recorded this piece or Gilel's or perhaps better, then learn it if you like it that much. That's how I picked my recital songs no matter what someone thought including this one. If you really want to, you can. This isn't a slow moving Romantic song yet requires the same skills to a more extreme with so much time put into practice.

I must stress this though, I hope you have large hands like me which stretch over an octave. I found the biggest strengths I put into use with this song was my upper arm and forearm strength and technique control. Believe me, this song takes a lot of muscle to play and if you do, you best have great control and show emotion with it. That is sometimes hard to do with such fast repetitions and large chords for some but if you have the hands and strength, by all means do it. I did and love this piece but my hands and wrist could take it, it will really tire some out if you know what I mean.

The whole song is rather easy if you are naturally gifted with larger hands and wrist and finger strength. The tough part then is just getting all the dynamics perfect with it and that's what you would need to practice. I'm sitting at my desk now and both my hands just snapped into measure 17 and 23's chord patterns. You will soon do that and your fingers will just snap and lock into place without you even looking once you learn this piece. That sounds scary I know but this prelude is just something your fingers never forget once learned. I can't say that about many other songs in my repertoire and I forget parts to many now, old age, 33 years =).

Forgot something...What kind of piano do you practice on and what will you play on for your recital? I only ask because when you learn this on a lighter touch action like a Baldwin, then go to translate that to your Steinway or other heavier touch, there is a huge difference. I was at my parents house today where two of my pianos are stored, I whipped right through this on my old Baldwin there like nothing. I came home and tried on my older Steinway upright and made many mistakes, hands were cold too though. Anyways, try to practice on a heavy and light touch piano if you don't already so you gain more control over both keyboard actions when you travel. If you are used to a light touch keyboard then try to play this on a heavier one without practice, it really screws things up.

Offline cardamome

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #6 on: April 03, 2011, 12:50:41 PM
Thank you for your answers ! I can now tell that C# minor IS a lot easier than op.23 #5. I'm practically done with it... and hope to take up the other one again.
Alas, I've got rather small hands (one octave but not more). But my teacher told me what notes NOT to play :-)

Offline pianohenry

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 11:06:22 AM
I'm learning these two preludes at the moment too :) I would say C sharp minor is definitely easier, but I prefer G minor.

Have you tried the G sharp minor prelude (Op. 32/12)? I've heard it played a few times but its possibly not as overplayed as the others. I would say its easier than G minor but around the same as the other - there are only a few bits which are tricky to play in terms of stretch, but it is more fiddly than C sharp minor. Having said that I have quite large hands so I might be being optimistic!

Good luck!

Offline cardamome

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #8 on: April 05, 2011, 07:32:03 PM
Good suggestion! Thank you.

Offline mboylan

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Your Piano teacher is wrong unless you are way over your head.  As an amateur, I have been working on this since January and I spend no more than 2 hours per week and I am close to playing this for a Jury.  (It is true that the C#is less challenging.) 

There is huge variance in interpretation of the G minor -- slow/ fast; staccato/ pedaled with sustain on the tonic; loud / soft; over emphasizing the accents or not.  I have picked a middle road and tried to follow the composers markings.  It sounds good in a variety of ways. 

Offline iratior

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #10 on: May 03, 2011, 12:49:12 AM
I confess.  I took the melody of "Jingle Bells", converted it to minor key, and played it in the style of Rachmaninoff Opus 23 no. 5.  What can I say. Go for C-sharp minor.

Offline jinfiesto

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #11 on: May 03, 2011, 06:10:03 AM
The C sharp minor is much easier. The polyphonic section in the middle of the G minor prelude can be a little hairy. If you're crunched for time, definitely learn the C sharp minor.

Offline jjs238

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Re: Rachmaninoff prelude - continue op. 23 #5 or try C# minor?
Reply #12 on: December 04, 2011, 07:01:01 PM
So Cardamome...How did things work out? Bet you have learned the other Prelude by now and still find bits and pieces to improve on. Would like to hear how things went and how the Prelude in G is progressing. Keep us posted!
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